Unskippable: Final Fantasy 13

[hyperdrachen]

Next time crime breaks out in my area I most definitly will deputize the saw mill machinery.

 

[OZITOMAI]

i personally think that this one wasnt all too much your best, good work though, not really funny though, can you do metal arms(glitch in the system) for the PS2, its a great game and it would be funny as if you guys did it

 

[kasperbbs]

I always wanted to try FF series because of all the hype ,but since i dont own a console i cant ,now i lost interest..

 

[THGhost]

I loved the LaCie external hard drive joke

 

[ebag_5]

sorry if i sound like an ABSOLUTE nerd, but did anyone else hear the star wars laser sound at 5:07? Sounds like the blaster used by the rebels at the beginning of ep IV...

...and now I'm going outside lol

 

[ManaAdvent]

Yay, it's the real thing!

Wow, that looked so darn confusing, but it was meant to look cool anyways. However, looks better than 12 anyways which I hate the MMO gameplay about it and it actually plays itself. Besides, I'm waiting for FF13 Versus instead b/c of hearing that it'll be a mature Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Yay, it's the real thing!

Wow, that looked so darn confusing, but it was meant to look cool anyways. However, looks better than 12 anyways which I hate the MMO gameplay about it and it actually plays itself. Besides, I'm waiting for FF13 Versus instead b/c of hearing that it'll be a mature Kingdom Hearts.

Actually, while that may still be correct, Square had admittedly similarities in Versus to Romeo and Juliet, and given the details released surrounding Noctis and Stella, who are cited to be the love interest duo, it is likely such is the direction the story takes. Frankly I am more than welcoming of this provided they deviate from Shakespeare and progress more towards something along the lines of the RomeoxJuliet anime, where significant action and intelligent development was a primary focus.

Nonetheless, I must inquire why it is Final Fantasy can be taken to the wooden shed on this board, whilst Bioware is thought the holy grail of gaming, when the latter is almost as guilty as the former for lack of originality in design. I am not about to determine superiority between the respective companies as it is ultimate a matter of preference and I openly concede Bioware holds sway on an overall basis however this inane bashing of a franchise based on a game the majority seemingly have hardly touched, is mind baffling.

Certainly dislike FFXIII, you are entitled to your own opinion, moreover I encourage it, however when posts arise with idiocy such as "Oh it doesn't look logical, horrible game!" or asking questions about everything before hardly playing through, then concluding it is somehow inferior is ridiculous. This site slams Final Fantasy continuously for rehashing character stereotypes. Would you like me to pull out the Bioware rehash list because they have lack creativity in that department for years.

It is one thing to dislike a game merely because it is no your cup of tea, no game will suffice to everyone's desires. This topic is more along, "FF sucks just because." And before you cite my fanboyism as a means to defend yourself, the only FF title at present rank significantly high on my favorite list is FFX. So I am hardly the poster boy for the series.

 

[D_987]

Where to begin on this exactly?

A few hour of torture later...
20H in and still no answer.

No answer to what? You're really only a third of the way into the game in terms of time spent; though if you really don't like the game, don't play it - it's not a difficult concept to understand...

I've reach the point where it's suppose to be good, yet...

There's no set time when a game gets good or not; that's up to the individual...

The divulge the plot like if everything should have been on my last test before graduation. Sorry It a big pile of FAIL. But I got to admit, if they just could have bought the school system of the whole wide world, it could have been interesting.

Ok; what the hell are you talking about? I think you're trying to use a metaphor; maybe... Though this still doesn't explain anything; it's just you saying "Da plot iz FAIL" with no real purpose or reasoning...

They spout out the plot like a real conversation does... but IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT IN A STORY. They could have gone other route.

Why doesn't it work like that? Of course it works; you're the only person I've seen that after playing the game for 20 hours still didn't understand what was going on...

Made Vanille a Outsider... (Many minutes of reading later)... A Pulse Lassie. Ho hell, a indigenous girl from down below. They could have explain the term in a little optional cutscene, like Metal Gear Solid 4 Flashback mechanic.

Again, what are you talking about? They did use flashbacks; and they explained what everything was in those conversations: the explained what the Purge was (Vanille told Hope), they explained what L'Ci are (several times) they discuss Pulse ("hell" according to Hope), they explain what the Fai'Ci are; you even see their motivations and character flaws in the flashbacks during the fireworks show. It's really not difficult to understand once you grasp the fact that the events the game opens in are actually after 13 days of precluding events...

The could wait and explain it gradually through the course of the story. Do a round table and get the group up to speed after the Alien tattoo maker. But the sad thing is, Vanille is supposed to be the dumb one for the sake of helping us understand. There's no shortage of trick authors use to do this and i'm not willing to check and post them all here for your convenience.

Ok, you clearly didn't pay close attention to the storyline, or the conversations between the characters...that's fine; that's why there's a data-log. For people like yourself. But the story-telling works well; what's more, it even keeps the action going a good percentage of the time - there're no massive, long, boring explanations about the most basic of details (which is odd because they did that with the battle-system) and yet you still whine...

There is only that. The briefly spoke about Lassie and how the dog is bad... but I had to look to understand that this is a curse from a Alien thing.

This makes no sense; you mean the curse from the Fal'Cie that bound them to a fate? It was pretty easily understood...

And the 20 pages right of the train is OVERKILL. A way to ease that? Repetiton. It work in music too. Sing a song right now and you'll bout to repeat yourself many time. That's a trick use by the music industry to stick that song in you head so you would seek it out.

I prefer not to have to hear the same simple facts explained to me like I'm an idiot in my games...that's what the data-logs there for...

And you know how that's could be achieved? Take a look at Alan Wake or *shiver* Alone in the Dark for PS2 & 3, Xbox 360 and PC. The Last time on Alan Wake or Previously on Alone in the Dark is wonderful for that. Not only would you get a reminder, but also get it after a long comeback to the game. Did they do that? No.

Why would they need to? You mentioned the little text intros you get when you boot up an area again; and the data-log is there to keep things simplistic - something like that is highly unnecessary and again, panders only to the idiot population of people that hate reading...

None, you got me there. The thing is, they don't padded out the main storyline with needless group splitting and have to fallow each of them. Well there's FF6 but it was part of the main storyline. It was to establish some character point.

Yay; lets start comparing Final Fantasy games from past console generations with different development teams, different expectations and different fan-bases! Ugh; maybe the reason you dislike the game is because of the brand name?

What i got from FF13? Nothing. We get a... i can't remember the name of that whinny 14 year old boy. Yeah, him. We get him wanting to get Commando on Snow's ass. That's all.

If that's all you got out of that section I suggest you go play a different genre...
We see Hope getting angry at Snow, but worrying that he's not strong enough to do anything, we see Lightning, previously a cold-hearted individual give him the confidence he needs to act. How is that not relevant character development?

The bit with Sasz and Vanille was pointless.

You mean the bit that explained Vanille's guilt over the crystallization of Sazh's son? Or the bit in which he finds out and a previously calm individual turns from raged to suicidal in an instant? Or the part in which they discuss their past, and we learn more of their characters in general?

The bit with Snow showed us nothing that we didn't see a few hours before. "He love her... can we get on with it game?" That's what I shout at the TV. No joke.

It displays the internal pain Snow feels; and explains to the player that the reason he "keeps moving forward" is because of Serah; it's pretty much implied in his speech to Hope. Sure it's a bit cliché, but it's still relevant, and expands him from his original show-off, over-the-top previous characterization.

On the FF6 side, we get closure and acceptance of the dead of Cyan family, a back story with Celes and we expand a bit with the main trio. So... It was mostly informative. Not like FF13. As for sidequests, well that's padding, but that's what it's supposed to be.

I haven't played FF6; but again, let's not compare previous games - design changes, and you didn't seem to understand the story anyway...

When you fail to give proper exposition, you alienate the audience. That's basic writing 101.

And they did give proper exposition; you're the only person I've heard that really didn't understand anything...

What? There a FAI'CI'S now? I barelly got hold of Fallsi....

Fal'Cie is how you actually spell the name you call "Fallsi". I mis-spelt it in my previous post; but this just demonstrates how little you've been playing attention...

which make me atop the one that learn it since birth and don't give a damn. So cry all you want kiddo, i don't care.

No, it really doesn't...you'd be better than those that have learnt it since birth if I could understand what you were saying...as it happens I'm not able to understand some of your comments. You don't have to care; I never asked you to - it was a simple throwaway comment.

As for the flaws? There right there in the first post. Those where major storytelling
No-no (nonose? no, my dictionary is acting up... i must be right).

Now you're starting to get annoying; I've explained to you three times now that just because you were unable to follow the pretty easy storyline doesn't mean we all weren't. There is nothing wrong with the way the game presents the storyline besides the dialogue.

This isn't subjective at all. It's like when we spot error on a movie. A medieval knight with a digital watch. A Dead character that tries to move before the shot is done.

Those are fundamental mistakes that weren't meant to have occurred. This has nothing to do with your point at all. If anything they strengthen my argument because they show how poorly thought out your argument is...

Those flaws i mention about 13, they are far from subjective. Those flaws would have never made pass the first draft stage if it was a book. I wouldn't have been release as a movie. So why give it a pass when made as a video game.

Yeah; those great flaws like "I didn't understand the story" never heard a flaw like that in a movie or book before... --_-- Especially when you're one of the few that have seemingly no clue as to what occurs...

It's not bad enough to become good like COMMANDO with Schwarzenegger?

No, that film was always shit. I don't know why you keep getting films and games mixed up though; the two are nothing alike; whatever the gaming industry might say.

I know it a final fantasy, i know you must be a fan... or maybe it was your first? Anyways, there's better stuff out there.

You know; I'm not the one who keeps mentioning previous Final Fantasy games - you are. In fact, I feel Lost Odyssey is a much better game than Final Fantasy XIII; as was Tales of Vesperia - but that doesn't stop me accepting the game as a quality RPG and pointing out the errors in most of the undeserved criticism it gets...

 

[ProjectTrinity]

First 10 Hours of Final Fantasy XIII:

"What's a Le'cie?"
"What's a Ceith?"
"What's a Focus?"
"What's a Fal'Cie?"
"Why oh why are these names so close to each other?!"
"What's pulse?"
"What's Gran Pulse?"
"What's So....We're in Caccoon?"
"Who was the GENIUS that thought that making a cool-looking character so annoying it hurts was a good idea? (Hope)"
"Is she...Is she having TOO much fun fighting? 0_o;;"

After beating the game (meaning don't answer all that, less you want to), I know every answer except the last two.

Anyways, I loved this video. I wish you guys would cover the first half of the game, since it's like an introduction anyways. lol

 

[ProjectTrinity]

@D_987: You! We must discuss XIII. The game barely scrapes by as okay in my books. Having played it completely and understanding the plot (I believe I do, at least), it should prove interesting to hear a perspective on the game that's different than mine. Probably much different considering Final Fantasy XIII and I don't get along for so many reasons.

 

[Akalistos]

Where to begin on this exactly?

By stating the obvious, you like the game so much you can't take when people make decent criticism on it? Or is that because you love that brand so much?

No answer to what? You're really only a third of the way into the game in terms of time spent; though if you really don't like the game, don't play it - it's not a difficult concept to understand...

Through criticism come improvement. Concept that has now eluded you. People... no. If you look at that thread, you are the minority so let me rephrase. The crushing majority that "bash" that game (like you seem to imply) are FAN OF FINAL FANTASY. They want it to get better. I won't argue that you love it if you really do... but if it's a fanboy reaction, you may need to face the music.

I've reach the point where it's suppose to be good, yet...

There's no set time when a game gets good or not; that's up to the individual...

I meant in the general rule of thumb. Critic and Gamer said that it get good after 20 hours. Even Yahtzee heard that. So, i reach that point and didn't found anything fun.

Ok; what the hell are you talking about? I think you're trying to use a metaphor; maybe... Though this still doesn't explain anything; it's just you saying "Da plot iz FAIL" with no real purpose or reasoning...

Let me rephrase that: They divulge the plot like if all the term they throw at us should have been on my last test high school test. Sorry, It a big pile of FAIL. But I got to admit, if they just could have bought the school system of the whole wide world, it could have been interesting. They spout out the plot like they don't care for the gamer... but IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT IN A STORY. They could have gone other route.

Why doesn't it work like that? Of course it works; you're the only person I've seen that after playing the game for 20 hours still didn't understand what was going on...

Because they have read the Data-logs? Why wouldn't they, it barely explained and don't get any explanation. If you pick that up without looking at the Data-logs, your the only one.

First 10 Hours of Final Fantasy XIII:

"What's a Le'cie?"
"What's a Ceith?"
"What's a Focus?"
"What's a Fal'Cie?"
"Why oh why are these names so close to each other?!"
"What's pulse?"
"What's Gran Pulse?"
"What's So....We're in Caccoon?"
"Who was the GENIUS that thought that making a cool-looking character so annoying it hurts was a good idea? (Hope)"
"Is she...Is she having TOO much fun fighting? 0_o;;"

After beating the game (meaning don't answer all that, less you want to), I know every answer except the last two.
[ ... ]
@D_987: You! We must discuss XIII. The game barely scrapes by as okay in my books.

Maybe you should look at the comment for that game more closely.

They could have explain the term in a little optional cutscene, like Metal Gear Solid 4 Flashback mechanic.

Again, what are you talking about? They did use flashbacks; and they explained what everything was in those conversations: the explained what the Purge was (Vanille told Hope), they explained what L'Ci are (several times) they discuss Pulse ("hell" according to Hope), they explain what the Fai'Ci are; you even see their motivations and character flaws in the flashbacks during the fireworks show. It's really not difficult to understand once you grasp the fact that the events the game opens in are actually after 13 days of precluding events...

You didn't play MGS4, didn't you. The flashback are player induce, showing pics or clip or quote from a character. When they talk, for example, of Meryl... whe get pics of her and quote that remind us who she was in the other titles. That said, they could have gone that route. Here's a example.
The Fal'cie(x)are have turn the train around! Get them.

And if you press X, that would stop the game for a second and you get a voice saying: "Fal'cie are people that had contact with a l'cie."

Ok, you clearly didn't pay close attention to the storyline, or the conversations between the characters...that's fine; that's why there's a data-log. For people like yourself.

An insult! Your grasping for straw isn't it... Let me guess, you are so delusional that you have nothing to say. Anyways, insult doesn't have a place on the escapist, so reported.

But the story-telling works well; what's more, it even keeps the action going a good percentage of the time - there're no massive, long, boring explanations about the most basic of details (which is odd because they did that with the battle-system) and yet you still whine...

We aren't speaking about the combat system here but the story. If you ask me, it the worst combat system ever. You don't have flexibility, can't choose your attack beside predetermined action dictated (and i do mean Dictated as in: Dictator of a combat system i have ever seen.) by what paragdim you are. No strategic element here, it's World of Warcraft all over again. Why World of Warcraft? Check their rotations. There are many move but they are force or better yet require to do the same because it's their stronger move, they spam it until the enemies are defeated and that's far from being good combat. The thing that make WoW above Final Fantasy is that's it's a MMORPG. Meaning that your teammates are human and there a degree of interaction. Final Fantasy is a offline game and the majority of the game is combat. If that's not interesting, that mean 70% of game suck right off the box.

This makes no sense; you mean the curse from the Fai'Ci that bound them to a fate? It was pretty easily understood...

No it wasn't... i can understand what it is and I haven't check the data-log. Understanding and hearing isn't the same thing. Why turn the guy or girl that help you into a crystal? Why they turn you into a zombie if you fail? Why ask people when you clearly have more power as a alien thing to do it? I know those answers may be revealed later in the game, but even with a explanation, it wouldn't make more sense.

I prefer not to have to hear the same simple facts explained to me like I'm an idiot in my games...that's what the data-logs there for...

and another one. Let me guess, you love Xbox Live. Anyways, I'm not a 17 year old gaming profanity spatter with a microphone, so you won't get insult from me. I would call your mom if i could but i don't have the phone number.

Why would they need to? You mentioned the little text intros you get when you boot up an area again;

That talk about the terrain and no the story in and of itself.

and the data-log is there to keep things simplistic

With 10,000 entry? Or by making word that resemble each other?

- something like that is highly unnecessary and again, panders only to the idiot population of people that hate reading...

Or don't want to read a game. It's like a movie that give a lexicon to the audience before the movie so they can understand what's going on. Games and Movies are [gasp] BOTH VISUAL MEDIA! What do you say to that? Also, riddle me this D_987: Why would people post on forum if they hate to read?

None, you got me there. The thing is, they don't padded out the main storyline with needless group splitting and have to fallow each of them. Well there's FF6 but it was part of the main storyline. It was to establish some character point.

Yay; lets start comparing Final Fantasy games from past console generations with different development teams, different expectations and different fan-bases! Ugh; maybe the reason you dislike the game is because of the brand name?

No. Not at all. What I do say is that it was done before and better but you weren't born what when that happen.

What i got from FF13? Nothing. We get a... i can't remember the name of that whinny 14 year old boy. Yeah, him. We get him wanting to get Commando on Snow's ass. That's all.

If that's all you got out of that section I suggest you go play a different genre...
We see Hope getting angry at Snow, but worrying that he's not strong enough to do anything, we see Lightning, previously a cold-hearted individual give him the confidence he needs to act. How is that not relevant character development?

We see that since Hope?... Since Hope saw his mother dying. As for the mother side of Lightning, we get that for a previous flashback in which she try to make separate her sister from Snow. That and it's also shown why she hate that guy.

The bit with Sasz and Vanille was pointless.

You mean the bit that explained Vanille's guilt over the crystallization of Sazh's son? Or the bit in which he finds out and a previously calm individual turns from raged to suicidal in an instant? Or the part in which they discuss their past, and we learn more of their characters in general?

Didn't get anything about a son. No. It's must have been mention while i was reading what the plot is about on the Internet. But, now that it's said... was Vanille responsible for the crystallization? Or did the, "I'll sleep on the blanket and you sleep away but I'll totally hug you because I'm scared" moment so important? She did say she's scared many time by that point. But i guess there's also praise to be made, so here goes. Congratulation Square-Enix for making a character so much more annoying then CHU-CHU!

The bit with Snow showed us nothing that we didn't see a few hours before. "He love her... can we get on with it game?" That's what I shout at the TV. No joke.

It displays the internal pain Snow feels; and explains to the player that the reason he "keeps moving forward" is because of Serah; it's pretty much implied in his speech to Hope.

A.K.A. PRIOR TO THAT SCENE, RENDERING IT POINTLESS. Even Lightning said the same thing before leaving. It's sad when character point how much bad the editing is.

Sure it's a bit cliché, but it's still relevant, and expands him from his original show-off, over-the-top previous characterization.

Which was done during his assault in the Flying Giant Cross at the beginning of the game.

On the FF6 side, we get closure and acceptance of the dead of Cyan family, a back story with Celes and we expand a bit with the main trio. So... It was mostly informative. Not like FF13. As for sidequests, well that's padding, but that's what it's supposed to be.

I haven't played FF6; but again, let's not compare previous games - design changes, and you didn't seem to understand the story anyway...

What!!! So you don't want to know that other game did the same but better? You are shutting yourself up so you don't want to listen now? And after all that, you still want me to say that FF13 is the best thing since the invention of the wheel? Keep dreaming kid.

And they did give proper exposition; you're the only person I've heard that really didn't understand anything...

You wanna bet? Look at the comment on any forum of any website. Listen to all gaming podcast and see for yourself. But please, start by this one:
http://loadingreadyrun.com/lrrcasts/view/218/TGwP-FF13-FINALE

Fal'Cie is how you actually spell the name you call "Fallsi". I mis-spelt it in my previous post; but this just demonstrates how little you've been playing attention...

Right. And i didn't underline your mistake to show you that your not better than the next guy.

which make me atop the one that learn it since birth and don't give a damn. So cry all you want kiddo, i don't care.

No, it really doesn't...you'd be better than those that have learnt it since birth if I could understand what you were saying...as it happens I'm not able to understand some of your comments. You don't have to care; I never asked you to - it was a simple throwaway comment.

Why did you remove the part where I said that I love constructive input to ameliorate myself? Does that part put my statement in perspective. I think so. Therefore, you just wrote that to be "douchy". Oh! by the ways. You did make some mistakes here and there and if I'm able to pick them up, that mean they are pretty evident.

As for the flaws? There right there in the first post. Those where major storytelling
No-no (nonose? no, my dictionary is acting up... i must be right).

Now you're starting to get annoying; I've explained to you three times now

That's your second reply. Do you need my help for Mathematic too?

that just because you were unable to follow the pretty easy storyline doesn't mean we all weren't. There is nothing wrong with the way the game presents the storyline besides the dialogue.

Now we are getting somewhere. I got you to say that the game has flaws. As for the All thing, i never say we all. No sir, not one time. What I do say is that I'm in the majority, and the Majority said that's a flaw.

Those are fundamental mistakes that weren't meant to have occurred. This has nothing to do with your point at all. If anything they strengthen my argument because they show how poorly thought out your argument is...

You mean that the major dislike of FF13 was meant to happen. Also, don't cry. Your supposed to be a man goddammit.

Yeah; those great flaws like "I didn't understand the story"[Akalistos:more like fail to make exposition.] heard a flaw like that in a movie or book before... --_-- Especially when you're one of the few that have seemingly no clue as to what occurs...

!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah good one. People return in mass their copies of FF13 or give them bad review and when i say that it's bad, I'm in the minority. Man, now you should do stand up act. I would watch all of your performance. Honest.

You know; I'm not the one who keeps mentioning previous Final Fantasy games - you are. In fact, I feel Lost Odyssey is a much better game than Final Fantasy XIII; as was Tales of Vesperia - but that doesn't stop me accepting the game as a quality RPG and pointing out the errors in most of the undeserved criticism it gets...

You are still a kid and have much to learn. Get a retro gamer, let him be your mentor. He will show you how great they have been without shiny graphic. When they focused on story and gameplay. Then, we will talk.

 

[Frozengale]

Hey wait that was only 6 minutes long. I thought the Final Fantasy XIII Opening Sequence was 40 hours!

 

[Mattteus]

the black guy has a bird in his 'fro... f*ck you Final Fantasy, f*ck you so hard

 

[Azaraxzealot]

i would like to know who in japan thought that 70 hours of going down linear corridors made a game good

everyone (or at least the majority) in japan thinks repetitive, linear games (or sometimes just either or) that require you to invest insane amounts of time into them is a good idea

 

[Azaraxzealot]

You are still a kid and have much to learn. Get a retro gamer, let him be your mentor. He will show you how great they have been without shiny graphic. When they focused on story and gameplay. Then, we will talk.

this is all I need to say... "wtf? engrish FAIL!"

 

[DeviousJ]

Man this video made me laugh so hard.
When I played Final Fantasy XIII the first I was like: Hahahaha... I didn't get it.

 

[D_987]

By stating the obvious, you like the game so much you can't take when people make decent criticism on it? Or is that because you love that brand so much?

Not really; as stated previously you've pretty much made no decent relevant points. You fail to understand what the word subjective means. You fail to create any decent objective points. You failed to understand that people have different experiences of a game to yourself. This isn't about my viewpoint; it's about you failing to understand a basic plot...

You fail to understand the point of my comments in this paragraph.

Through criticism come improvement. Concept that has now eluded you. People... no. If you look at that thread, you are the minority so let me rephrase. The crushing majority that "bash" that game (like you seem to imply) are FAN OF FINAL FANTASY. They want it to get better. I won't argue that you love it if you really do... but if it's a fanboy reaction, you may need to face the music.

Ok, wow. I mean seriously? Wow. This is getting unbelievable - you must either be really stupid or you're just trolling. So, I'll repeat myself, for the sake of trying to get you to understand:

You've made no objective complaints as to how the games story is poor. You failed to understand the story due to your own failings not the games. You're in the minority when it comes to failing to understand the story.

That's not to say there aren't flaws - of course there are - but this conversation has been pretty much about you not being able to understand basic game concepts like what a Fal'Cie is...I never said that this game is amazing, nor am I defending it like a fanboy; a comment that's obviously designed to irritate me - pretty much the concept of trolling - but really, if you're basing your ideas on the gaming communities reaction to the game from an Unskippable thread (no offence to the Unskippable people) then you have little common-sense...

I meant in the general rule of thumb. Critic and Gamer said that it get good after 20 hours. Even Yahtzee heard that. So, i reach that point and didn't found anything fun.

Good for you, I honestly couldn't care less whether you found the game fun or not - this discussion isn't about that - it's about the storyline; don't try to turn it into an argument over the gameplay. You fail to realize what this discussion is about...

Let me rephrase that: They divulge the plot like if all the term they throw at us should have been on my last test high school test. Sorry, It a big pile of FAIL. But I got to admit, if they just could have bought the school system of the whole wide world, it could have been interesting. They spout out the plot like they don't care for the gamer... but IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT IN A STORY. They could have gone other route.

You know that still makes no sense right?

Because they have read the Data-logs? Why wouldn't they, it barely explained and don't get any explanation. If you pick that up without looking at the Data-logs, your the only one.

Absolute and total bullshit. In fact there's someone else who has posted in this thread claiming they didn't need to use the data-logs to understand these basic concepts. Just saying that everyone must have read the data-logs because there's no way that they could have understood the plot is both childish and insulting - it's an easy story to understand...

I know every answer except the last two.

Thanks for quoting this guy...considering he pretty much explains that the game answered all his questions through the storyline you'd think he was, you know, supporting my view-point.

Maybe you should look at the comment for that game more closely.

You mean the one that says that he didn't like the game? I don't recall ever saying you had to like the game; only that the games story was good, and easy to follow. You're the one childish enough to perceive that as me claiming the game as a whole is great...

This is where you fail to understand the point I'm making.

You didn't play MGS4, didn't you. The flashback are player induce, showing pics or clip or quote from a character. When they talk, for example, of Meryl... whe get pics of her and quote that remind us who she was in the other titles. That said, they could have gone that route. Here's a example.
The Fal'cie(x)are have turn the train around! Get them.

And if you press X, that would stop the game for a second and you get a voice saying: "Fal'cie are people that had contact with a l'cie."

Sounds pointless and needed only for ludicrously difficult to follow plots. This game doesn't need something like that. I gotta repeat though, that if you really don't know what a Fal'cie is (because it sure as hell isn't your description) then check the data-log. That's kinda its purpose...

Again, even here you fail to understand the ppint of the discussion; the fact you don't understand what a Fal'Cie is 20 hours into the game, yet you refuse to use the data-log kinda proves my point...

Massive long pointless paragraph in which you not only fail to understand I'm not talking about the battle system, but you also act like a child, again... It has been edited out

No it wasn't... i can understand what it is and I haven't check the data-log.

Way to prove my point correct again...

Understanding and hearing isn't the same thing. Why turn the guy or girl that help you into a crystal? Why they turn you into a zombie if you fail? Why ask people when you clearly have more power as a alien thing to do it? I know those answers may be revealed later in the game, but even with a explanation, it wouldn't make more sense.

It is explained later on in the game; and it does make sense...

That talk about the terrain and no the story in and of itself.

Wrong; I suggest you try reading them...

Or don't want to read a game. It's like a movie that give a lexicon to the audience before the movie so they can understand what's going on. Games and Movies are [gasp] BOTH VISUAL MEDIA! What do you say to that?

I'd say that your wrong because, shock and horror, as I've already said maybe four times now that the game does tell you everything you need to know, clearly, within the cut-scenes. The data-logs are there if you missed them or forgot. It's not, as you seem to believe, the place they tell the story from...

Show me, objectively, a place in which the game forces the reader to look up what is going on outside of maybe the first couple of hours...As in a concept the game introduces after the players have been branded that the game doesn't explain or has previously explained.

We see that since Hope?... Since Hope saw his mother dying. As for the mother side of Lightning, we get that for a previous flashback in which she try to make separate her sister from Snow. That and it's also shown why she hate that guy.

Way to prove my point; but sadly you're wrong, we don't see this development until that section.

Didn't get anything about a son. No.

Ok; you didn't know that Sazhs has a son? Are you kidding me... This is just proof you obviously didn't watch the cut-scenes seeing as how it's shown in a flashback, and he even appears - leading PSCICOM (or whatever) to the pair to complete his focus....

Way to prove my point again...

Large section deleted because there's seriously so much wrong with it even I can't be bothered to explain. Needless to say; we're talking strictly about the story execution, and not the games overall quality...that and you have some weird interpretations when it comes to the emotions displayed by the characters through the cut-scenes.And I deleted more paragraphs that weren't relevant to the discussion, which was literally this entire half of your post...

First and foremost, I'm going to respond to what I know you'd have said, because you really seem like the kind of immature person that would say such a thing:

No I did not delete this section because you made a clever argument I couldn't counter-argue.
No I did not delete this section because you made any clever points.
No I did not delete this section because I agree with anything you raise.

This is because you didn't raise any interesting points (though the massively long "hahaha" really shows your mental age); your ideas about the story are so out-of-touch with the actual story I wonder if you really didn't just look up a poorly explained version of the story and pretend you've played the game...There's so much to correct, and I really can't be bothered to point out the many more idiotic insults you make (but I also deleted a paragraph in which you cried about the fact I inferred you were an idiot - way to be a hypocrite). This is a discussion in which you've basically said:

(Before you moan, no, of course those quotations don't accurately depict the exact phrases you used, but it's the point you're making whether you realize it or not.)

"The games story is bad - here is my experience with the game; I didn't understand the story - it must be a badly explained story, because if I didn't understand it nobody must've done - the games story is bad; I can vaguely explain why, but I can't actually point out any specific places in which information is not given to the player".

"Here's how they could've improved it - throw a load of unnecessary stuff that nobody else needed to understand the story - that would've improved it".

"I don't understand what a Fal'Cie is but I'm not going to use the data-log the game provided for such a case - the game didn't explain it to me (even though I missed simple details like what a Fal'Cie is) so my opinion is defiantly accurate - this games exposition sucks".

"FF6 was a better game and if you don't agree with my subjective opinion you're wrong"

Those are, quite basically, the four arguments you've made, continuously - and they're all either completely idiotic, or subjective. This, added to the fact you pretty much unwittingly proved the whole point I've been making correct in a few quotes, means I'm pretty much done here...

 

[Akalistos]

By stating the obvious, you like the game so much you can't take when people make decent criticism on it? Or is that because you love that brand so much?

Not really; as stated previously you've pretty much made no decent relevant points. You fail to understand what the word subjective means. You fail to create any decent objective points. You failed to understand that people have different experiances of a game to yourself. This isn't about my viewpoint; it's about you failing to understand a basic plot...

You fail to understand the point of my comments in this paragraph.

Through criticism come improvement. Concept that has now eluded you. People... no. If you look at that thread, you are the minority so let me rephrase. The crushing majority that "bash" that game (like you seem to imply) are FAN OF FINAL FANTASY. They want it to get better. I won't argue that you love it if you really do... but if it's a fanboy reaction, you may need to face the music.

Ok, wow. I mean seriously? Wow. This is getting unbelievable - you must either be really stupid or you're just trolling. So, I'll repeat myself, for the sake of trying to get you to understand:

You've made no objective complaints as to how the games story is poor. You failed to understand the story due to your own failings not the games. You're in the minority when it comes to failing to understand the story.

That's not to say there aren't flaws - of course there are - but this conversation has been pretty much about you not being able to understand basic game concepts like what a Fal'Cie is...I never said that this game is amazing, nor am I defending it like a fanboy; a comment that's obviously designed to irritate me - pretty much the concept of trolling - but really, if you're basing your ideas on the gaming communities reaction to the game from an Unskippable[/b] thread (no offence to the Unskippable people) then you have little common-sense...

I meant in the general rule of thumb. Critic and Gamer said that it get good after 20 hours. Even Yahtzee heard that. So, i reach that point and didn't found anything fun.

Good for you, I honestly couldn't care less whether you found the game fun or not - this discussion isn't about that - it's about the storyline; don't try to turn it into an argument over the gameplay. You fail to realize what this discussion is about...

Let me rephrase that: They divulge the plot like if all the term they throw at us should have been on my last test high school test. Sorry, It a big pile of FAIL. But I got to admit, if they just could have bought the school system of the whole wide world, it could have been interesting. They spout out the plot like they don't care for the gamer... but IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT IN A STORY. They could have gone other route.

You know that still makes no sense right?

Because they have read the Data-logs? Why wouldn't they, it barely explained and don't get any explanation. If you pick that up without looking at the Data-logs, your the only one.

Absolute and total bullshit. In fact there's someone else who has posted in this thread claiming they didn't need to use the data-logs to understand these basic concepts. Just saying that everyone must have read the data-logs because there's no way that they could have understood the plot is both childish and insulting - it's an easy story to understand...

I know every answer except the last two.

Thanks for quoting this guy...considering he pretty much explains that the game answered all his questions through the storyline you'd think he was, you know, supporting my view-point.

Maybe you should look at the comment for that game more closely.

You mean the one that says that he didn't like the game? I don't recall ever saying you had to like the game; only that the games story was good, and easy to follow. You're the one childish enough to perceive that as me claiming the game as a whole is great...

This is where you fail to understand the point I'm making.

You didn't play MGS4, didn't you. The flashback are player induce, showing pics or clip or quote from a character. When they talk, for example, of Meryl... whe get pics of her and quote that remind us who she was in the other titles. That said, they could have gone that route. Here's a example.
The Fal'cie(x)are have turn the train around! Get them.

And if you press X, that would stop the game for a second and you get a voice saying: "Fal'cie are people that had contact with a l'cie."

Sounds pointless and needed only for ludicrously difficult to follow plots. This game doesn't need something like that. I gotta repeat though, that if you really don't know what a Fal'cie is (because it sure as hell isn't your description) then check the data-log. That's kinda its purpose...

Again, even here you fail to understand the ppint of the discussion; the fact you don't understand what a Fal'Cie is 20 hours into the game, yet you refuse to use the data-log kinda proves my point...

Massive long pointless paragraph in which you not only fail to understand I'm not talking about the battle system, but you also act like a child, again... It has been edited out

No it wasn't... i can understand what it is and I haven't check the data-log.

Way to prove my point correct again...

Understanding and hearing isn't the same thing. Why turn the guy or girl that help you into a crystal? Why they turn you into a zombie if you fail? Why ask people when you clearly have more power as a alien thing to do it? I know those answers may be revealed later in the game, but even with a explanation, it wouldn't make more sense.

It is explained later on in the game; and it does make sense...

That talk about the terrain and no the story in and of itself.

Wrong; I suggest you try reading them...

Or don't want to read a game. It's like a movie that give a lexicon to the audience before the movie so they can understand what's going on. Games and Movies are [gasp] BOTH VISUAL MEDIA! What do you say to that?

I'd say that your wrong because, shock and horror, as I've already said maybe four times now that the game does tell you everything you need to know, clearly, within the cut-scenes. The data-logs are there if you missed them or forgot. It's not, as you seem to believe, the place they tell the story from...

Show me, objectively, a place in which the game forces the reader to look up what is going on outside of maybe the first couple of hours...As in a concept the game introduces after the players have been branded that the game doesn't explain or has previously explained.

We see that since Hope?... Since Hope saw his mother dying. As for the mother side of Lightning, we get that for a previous flashback in which she try to make separate her sister from Snow. That and it's also shown why she hate that guy.

Way to prove my point; but sadly you're wrong, we don't see this development until that section.

Didn't get anything about a son. No.

Ok; you didn't know that Sazhs has a son? Are you kidding me... This is just proof you obviously didn't watch the cut-scenes seeing as how it's shown in a flashback, and he even appears - leading PSCICOM (or whatever) to the pair to complete his focus....

Way to prove my point again...

Large section deleted because there's seriously so much wrong with it even I can't be bothered to explain. Needless to say; we're talking strictly about the story execution, and not the games overall quality...that and you have some weird interpretations when it comes to the emotions displayed by the characters through the cut-scenes.And I deleted more paragraphs that weren't relevant to the discussion, which was literally this entire half of your post...

First and foremost, I'm going to respond to what I know you'd have said, because you really seem like the kind of immature person that would say such a thing:

No I did not delete this section because you made a clever argument I couldn't counter-argue.
No I did not delete this section because you made any clever points.
No I did not delete this section because I agree with anything you raise.

This is because you didn't raise any interesting points (though the massively long "hahaha" really shows your mental age); your ideas about the story are so out-of-touch with the actual story I wonder if you really didn't just look up a poorly explained version of the story and pretend you've played the game...There's so much to correct, and I really can't be bothered to point out the many more idiotic insults you make (but I also deleted a paragraph in which you cried about the fact I inferred you were an idiot - way to be a hypocrite). This is a discussion in which you've basically said:

(Before you moan, no, of course those quotations don't accurately depict the exact phrases you used, but it's the point you're making whether you realize it or not.)

"The games story is bad" Here is my experience with the game; I didn't understand the story - it must be a badly explained story, because if I didn't understand it nobody must've done - the games story is bad; I can vaguely explain why, but I can't actually point out any specific places in which information is not given to the player"

"Here's how they could've improved it - throw a load of unnecessary stuff that nobody else needed to understand the story - that would've improved it".

"I don't understand what a Fal'Cie is but I'm not going to use the data-log the game provided for such case - the game didn't explain it to me (even though I missed simple details like what a Fal'Cie is) so my opinion is defiantly accurate - this games exposition sucks".

"FF6 was a better game and if you don't agree with my subjective opinion you're wrong"

Those are, quite basically, the four arguments you've made, continuously - and they're all either completely idiotic, or subjective. This, added to the fact you pretty much unwittingly proved the whole point I've been making correct in a few quotes, means I'm pretty much done here...

Wow. you got a lot faster through FF6 than i did. Kudos to you.

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Nonetheless, I must inquire why it is Final Fantasy can be taken to the wooden shed on this board, whilst Bioware is thought the holy grail of gaming, when the latter is almost as guilty as the former for lack of originality in design. I am not about to determine superiority between the respective companies as it is ultimate a matter of preference and I openly concede Bioware holds sway on an overall basis however this inane bashing of a franchise based on a game the majority seemingly have hardly touched, is mind baffling.

Certainly dislike FFXIII, you are entitled to your own opinion, moreover I encourage it, however when posts arise with idiocy such as "Oh it doesn't look logical, horrible game!" or asking questions about everything before hardly playing through, then concluding it is somehow inferior is ridiculous. This site slams Final Fantasy continuously for rehashing character stereotypes. Would you like me to pull out the Bioware rehash list because they have lack creativity in that department for years.

First, lemme say that I've seen the BioWare rehash list on TVTropes, and I think it's hysterical, because it's true. Secondly, I completely agree that there are very consistent stock characters, tropes, and plots that BioWare uses, though to be entirely fair, they tend to be true of just about every kind of RPG, not just BioWare's. I mean, if I rattled off the number of RPGs, Western and Japanese, that involve a young protagonist teaming up with a bunch of NPCs to defeat an evil after the protagonist's idyllic sheltered life was shattered, I'd be old before I finished. If I tried to list off the number of fantasy/sci-fi stories in general that did that, I'd be dead before I got halfway.

I think the difference with BioWare is not fundamentally one of creativity. The difference is one of execution. BioWare is excellent at making their worlds immersive, characters interesting, and plots intelligible within about the first thirty minutes. They're terrific at making games that grab your attention, then compel it through sixty hours of game. Fundamentally, BioWare might not have fantastically original ideas or designs--combat tends to be just competent rather than excellent or fresh--but they have excellent writers and solid level design. They're very, very good at putting the player on a more-or-less set and coherent plot with some branching, then hiding the rails and giving us the illusion of player choice. That takes skill, and it gives us RPGs with sensical plots and lots of roleplaying room without the stifling linearity of FFXIII or the "WHA???" of sandbox games where you literally have no idea what the main plot is.

Honestly, if you're looking for a CRPG that breaks the rules, Planescape: Torment is your friend. It doesn't get much stranger than that. But the sheer difference in the game is probably also a reason why PS:T, though considered a fantastic RPG, is more of a cult game and had limited commercial success.

Mind you, Final Fantasy 13 does not automatically turn into an RPG by there being some sort of levelling system in the same fashion that I do not automatically become a car by standing in a garage.

I think this might be the best descriptor I've ever heard for the strange and shiny beast that is the Final Fantasy franchise. Lest we forget, RPG stands for ROLE PLAYING GAME. You're supposed to role play a character or a group of characters, not just sit there and only get involved as the imp in their brains during combat and level-up.

 

[D_987]

I think this might be the best descriptor I've ever heard for the strange and shiny beast that is the Final Fantasy franchise. Lest we forget, RPG stands for ROLE PLAYING GAME. You're supposed to role play a character or a group of characters, not just sit there and only get involved as the imp in their brains during combat and level-up.

You do realize that the term RPG has become pretty much lost. Is Bioshock not an RPG then - I'm Role-playing as my protagonist?

What about Mirrors Edge? Am I not Role-playing Faith?

What about games in which I can make choices, since that seems to be what you're implying - what about Mercenaries 2; in which I can decide which factions I want to support?

The term RPG has become lost because pretty much all games are RPG's to some degree or another nowadays. JRPG's just take on a different gameplay style to WRPG's - it's just a name given to the genre - don't take it so literally...

Wow. you got a lot faster through FF6 than i did. Kudos to you.

I have no idea what you're trying to imply with that...