US(and a bunch of other places) vs Libya, GO!

[Dwarfman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

I can see this ending well for the rebellion.

You could just put "UN vs Libya" much easier.

Either way, Libya is crumbling and this will make this worse for everyone there.

Calumon: Why do people have to fight... :s

I doubt it will be as bad as you might think J&C. Unlike another recent event (ie Iraq), the Libyan people have been crying out for assistance from the West since this whole mess began and Gadaffi is an aging madman, a relic of bygone despots.

As one protester said earlier on the fighting; They were fighting for the western ideal of freedom and democracy, yet the west refused to help.

My one fear is that this could turn into another Afganistan. During the eighties the US provided covert support to the afgani people when Russia invaded. Alas once the Russians were beaten back, the US withdrew support, leaving a power vacume for the taliban to seize power and set the stage for the events that have occured in the last decade.

Of course the next question to ask is what about the rest? Bahrain, Iran, Egypt and Yemen just to name the obvious countries, are all going about a similar revolution in way or another. What happens whe the political cauldron over boils in these countries?

 

[ELD3RGoD]

Didn't the rebels shoot down a French fighter? Ironic how the only aircraft they shot down was a french one on their side! ^.^

On a different note, everyone should have stayed out. Their is enough crap going on with Afghanistan and the rest. What happened when the US invaded Somalia? Black Hawk Down, that's right!

A civil War is between two (or more) factions in a single country. If we (and by 'we', I mean BRITAIN, FRANCE, AMERICA, ITALY, GERMANY, BELGIUM and The ARABS) want to help, we should have offered weapons, training, tanks and ammunition, not sending in our own militaries.

Oil is another factor.

The US wanting to be heroes, but coming in late again is another factor.

So glad the Russians and China supported our actions or shit would be going down on a much higher level right now.

 

[Sparrow]

Pretty sure my country just wants to be in a decent war. It's like we were throwing all the parties a few decades ago, but now we can only go if America gets us invited.

 

[Dwarfman]

I hope Gaddafi Wins in this conflict.

Can I infer as to why?

Well attacking your own civilians is not a big deal and the rest of the worlds countries should mind there own shit and even though Gaddafi is winning if the rebels win there will still be civil war and a power vacuum.

Actually mate, attacking the people you serve is A VERY BIG FUCKING DEAL. You don't seriously believe what you just typed right?

What separates vile despots like Gaddafi from the rest of civilisation, is that the governments of 'free' nations are there to PROTECT their people, not gun them down because they disagree with the governments opinions.

 

[AlexWinter]

Not to take his side... but Waco and Ruby Ridge spring instantly to mind. And there are a ton of stories about what the "military" and "police" did to "citizens" during Katrina too that got buried. We aren't as bad as Gaddafi, but we aren't exactly without our own flaws. Then there's the whole matter of George Bush leading us into two wars under questionable pretenses... sending your people to die in unnecessary conflicts kinda constitutes "killing your own people" in my book. Although these are all debatable as to whether they fall under the guise of "crimes" and certainly don't equate to what is happening in Libya.

Perhaps, but you don't have to join the army and the police don't have to take orders.

You can't blame the government unless they've brainwashed people and removed their freewill, until then it is still the people committing the said crimes. Until the government literally forces the people into happily murdering other people for the 'greater good' then you can't say it's the government, it's the people.

Imagine your neighbour participated in the Waco event. Would you blame him/her or the government? I understand that it is hard to refuse orders in certain armed services and there are obviously personal factors involved but is it easier to commit murder?

So you can't say it's the government. The government might order it but the people carry it out.

 

[Bad Neighbour]

Didn't the rebels shoot down a French fighter? Ironic how the only aircraft they shot down was a french one on their side! ^.^

I think that was confirmed to be utter bollocks. All the French planes came back safely.

On a different note, everyone should have stayed out. Their is enough crap going on with Afghanistan and the rest. What happened when the US invaded Somalia? Black Hawk Down, that's right!

A civil War is between two (or more) factions in a single country. If we (and by 'we', I mean BRITAIN, FRANCE, AMERICA, ITALY, GERMANY, BELGIUM and The ARABS) want to help, we should have offered weapons, training, tanks and ammunition, not sending in our own militaries.

So what you're saying is we should've said to what is essetially militia taking on an organised army 'here's some weapons, GLHF' and just left them? Maybe we should take a leaf from Gaddafi's book and give a million weapons to civilians too huh, because fuck it's not enough of a bloodbath yet is it?

That's a ridiculous stand to take even if we could flick a switch and say 'gratz guys you're now superdooper well trained!'

 

[ELD3RGoD]

Well, you justify why we are sending troops in when they don't even want to kill Gaddafi? You say about how he is giving civilians weapons, killing people in bloodbaths etc etc, yet they don't want to kill the man responsible.

And yes, trained 'militia' have fought off the Russians the US and Britain in Afghanistan for around 20 years. Now imagine that trained militia with UN weaponry. They would seize the country in no time.

 

[Shirokurou]

I'm glad we (Russia) didn't get involved.
The bear needs his winter nap.

 

[Jonabob87]

I think they'll be doing hte most, what to clean up that mess they started.

What mess we started?

I live a few miles nearby to Lockerbie and can remember when the 747 was blown up theres no love lost between Libya and the North of England let me tell you.

Lockerbie is in Scotland...

OT: I'm glad this has finally happened, time to get rid of the nutter. Let's not impose "democracy" though, eh? Nations deserve the right to self government and we've no right to tell them what type of government that should be.

 

[Warboss Robgutz]

As an american citizen it is getting old of this nation constantly getting involved in the matters of others. America is broke we have invaded two muslim nations on questionable to false pretenses. I think countries should be allowed to handle their own business. The headlines say that its the UN but how often do these multinational colaitions become US. We have enough problems domestically.

Because the last time the most powerful nation in the world told a multinational organisation (the league of nations) that it had it's own problems and it couldn't be assed helping out, the said organisation bent over backwards and got a Severe Rodding from every tyrant and dictator going. America is the only western nation powerful enough to back UN resolutions and it has a responsibility to champion the virtues it's supposed to be so proud of (freedom, democracy, equality etc) and defend those who share simlar views, because if it didn't...no one else will. (dey aint got the ballz)

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

I don't get how they can go after Libya, and continue to ignore North Korea.

There's oil in Libya, and the prices are fluctuating around the world because of it. North Korea has no oil, so no one cares.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think they'll be doing hte most, what to clean up that mess they started.

What mess we started?

I live a few miles nearby to Lockerbie and can remember when the 747 was blown up theres no love lost between Libya and the North of England let me tell you.

Lockerbie is in Scotland...

OT: I'm glad this has finally happened, time to get rid of the nutter. Let's not impose "democracy" though, eh? Nations deserve the right to self government and we've no right to tell them what type of government that should be.

I live on the border, Lockerbie is only a few miles away. Being enraged by somebodies actions doesn't magically stop at the border you know...

 

[Bad Neighbour]

Well, you justify why we are sending troops in when they don't even want to kill Gaddafi? You say about how he is giving civilians weapons, killing people in bloodbaths etc etc, yet they don't want to kill the man responsible.

Everyone's telling him to step down. Same thing. We want him removed from power, whether that means killing him or not. I'd personally prefer it if we did.

And yes, trained 'militia' have fought off the Russians the US and Britain in Afghanistan for around 20 years. Now imagine that trained militia with UN weaponry. They would seize the country in no time.

Big yay. This isn't Afghanistan, and I'd hardly say we're being 'fought off' in there now anyway. In fact, arming militia in Afghanistan is one of the main reasons why it's in such a mess, because that's where the Taliban came from. Gee that sounds like a great idea.

So even if we did give UN weaponary to the rebels (and magically train them how to use it in 24 hours, lol, asuming we can even spare it with all the defence cuts we've had) so they could, quote on quote 'seize the country in no time' which sounds frighteningly like naive world war 1 logic to me, you're replacing it with another military regime. Skills.

 

[Jonabob87]

I think they'll be doing hte most, what to clean up that mess they started.

What mess we started?

I live a few miles nearby to Lockerbie and can remember when the 747 was blown up theres no love lost between Libya and the North of England let me tell you.

Lockerbie is in Scotland...

OT: I'm glad this has finally happened, time to get rid of the nutter. Let's not impose "democracy" though, eh? Nations deserve the right to self government and we've no right to tell them what type of government that should be.

I live on the border, Lockerbie is only a few miles away. Being enraged by somebodies actions doesn't magically stop at the border you know...

Could have been worded much better. We're Scottish, we need our disasters. Otherwise all we would be able to complain about would be the weather and the neighbours...

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think they'll be doing hte most, what to clean up that mess they started.

What mess we started?

I live a few miles nearby to Lockerbie and can remember when the 747 was blown up theres no love lost between Libya and the North of England let me tell you.

Lockerbie is in Scotland...

OT: I'm glad this has finally happened, time to get rid of the nutter. Let's not impose "democracy" though, eh? Nations deserve the right to self government and we've no right to tell them what type of government that should be.

I live on the border, Lockerbie is only a few miles away. Being enraged by somebodies actions doesn't magically stop at the border you know...

Could have been worded much better. We're Scottish, we need our disasters. Otherwise all we would be able to complain about would be the weather and the neighbours...

Lol Sorry for the bad wording but that whole thing was pretty scary.

 

[Jonabob87]

Also, as far as I know there haven't been any troops "sent in" to Libya as of yet, and I don't think there are plans to (could be wrong). As of now all I've seen or heard of is lots and lots of cruise missiles and bombing runs on military airfields and AA emplacements.

Muller says the operations in Libya are limited, they aren't planning an occupation or even an ousting. Gadaffi threatened to shoot down any non-Libyan planes that flew over Libya, so the UN issued a no-flying zone. Now America, Britain and France are enforcing it.

 

[Throwitawaynow]

I don't get how they can go after Libya, and continue to ignore North Korea.

There's oil in Libya, and the prices are fluctuating around the world because of it. North Korea has no oil, so no one cares.

North Korea is using helicopters and tanks to kill civilians en masse? Holy shit, I didn't know.

 

[Jonabob87]

I think they'll be doing hte most, what to clean up that mess they started.

What mess we started?

I live a few miles nearby to Lockerbie and can remember when the 747 was blown up theres no love lost between Libya and the North of England let me tell you.

Lockerbie is in Scotland...

OT: I'm glad this has finally happened, time to get rid of the nutter. Let's not impose "democracy" though, eh? Nations deserve the right to self government and we've no right to tell them what type of government that should be.

I live on the border, Lockerbie is only a few miles away. Being enraged by somebodies actions doesn't magically stop at the border you know...

Could have been worded much better. We're Scottish, we need our disasters. Otherwise all we would be able to complain about would be the weather and the neighbours...

Lol Sorry for the bad wording but that whole thing was pretty scary.

If you remember the Lockerbie bombing the you're a LOT older than your username suggests.

 

[Bad Neighbour]

Also, as far as I know there haven't been any troops "sent in" to Libya as of yet, and I don't think there are plans to (could be wrong). As of now all I've seen or heard of is lots and lots of cruise missiles and bombing runs on military airfields and AA emplacements.

Muller says the operations in Libya are limited, they aren't planning an occupation or even an ousting. Gadaffi threatened to shoot down any non-Libyan planes that flew over Libya, so the UN issued a no-flying zone. Now America, Britain and France are enforcing it.

Yeah as it stands it's just air, but I think it'll end up being ground too, as I don't think Gaddafi's going anywhere until we get the infantry to physically drag him out. I'd rather we didn't have to do that, though.

 

[E-Penguin]

I hope Gaddafi Wins in this conflict.

Can I infer as to why?

Well attacking your own civilians is not a big deal and the rest of the worlds countries should mind there own shit and even though Gaddafi is winning if the rebels win there will still be civil war and a power vacuum.

Are you serious?

I... don't even know how to respond to this.

As for the main topic... come on, we all saw it coming. With all luck, the jack-off in charge will see where this is going and apply for asylum out of country.

Until then, go, my Navy brethren, and drop explosives til the cows come home!

Even the USA kills its own people. It is just a difference in what each government sees as a crime.

How and when?

Death penalty.

There is a difference between executing mass murderers and BOMBING PEOPLE DEMONSTRATING.

Or you are just being a troll.


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