USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[w00tage]

We don't have a health-care system. We have an set of insurance industries that use health care, auto repair, housing, and anything else you can insure to maintain their profitability, stock valuations, and payments to lobbyists and political campaign donations to keep their deals going. I'm originally from Massachusetts, and that area is OWNED by the insurance companies, so I've seen it firsthand.

Here's how their deal works. I pay almost half a thousand a month for "great" medical insurance. Really high quality plan. Here's some actual numbers from a recent bill:

The medical testing company charged 163.00 to check a mole for cancerous cells. My insurance company "negotiated" a discount of 90.29 to "help me save money". The insurance company paid 36.61. My payment? 36.10.

The insurance company's gross take from me for that month? Roughly 460.00. And it's now the LAW that I must pay someone for medical insurance, or when I file my taxes, I will be assessed a monetary penalty and called a bad person.

Congratulations, we live in the United Companies of Insurance now.

 

[Dense_Electric]

No country anywhere has free healthcare, you just pay for it now instead of later. There's a reason taxes in the United States are among the lowest in the world, while medical bills here are through the roof. Though I should point out that Allison's insurance (you know, that she paid for) backed out, so if we're going to have some government intervention it should really be in making sure insurance companies don't do clearly illegal things like that.

It is illegal to back out like that now i think.

GOOD. I'm usually the libertarian in any given debate, but that really is something they should be making laws about.

 

[Shadow flame master]

All hail the wall o' text.
OT: Well, I don't know what a 16 year old american can say to this, but I'll give it a shot. Yes, our Medicare system is, by all means, FUCKED UP. I heard a year ago that a woman was waited on to death because the hospital said her injuries were "not life threatening". The way I see it is our country is so egotistical that we demand that our fellow people be either paying large sums of money for the littlest things(getting a medical examine) or simply not paying and not getting any services done at all.

About the Obama Administration, all of the talk you hear is simply because he is the first black preident in office and everyone in some form of government power belives him to be the anti-christ and bring america into socialism or communism. Simply put, anyone saying stupid shit about Obama is a total FUCK WIT that needs some education.

I would defend my country however unless it turned into a total shit hole to raise a family in. That's all I can say without proper knowledge on this issue.

 

[elbrandino]

The fact that we don't have socialized health care is pathetic. Honestly it is. I don't trust companies for jack shit. Hopefully someday soon we'll all realize that universal healthcare is a good idea. I'm jealous of other developed nations, in that respect. And no, there's no way I see to defend our current medical care. The system is stupid.

 

[hotsauceman]

No country anywhere has free healthcare, you just pay for it now instead of later. There's a reason taxes in the United States are among the lowest in the world, while medical bills here are through the roof. Though I should point out that Allison's insurance (you know, that she paid for) backed out, so if we're going to have some government intervention it should really be in making sure insurance companies don't do clearly illegal things like that.

It is illegal to back out like that now i think.

GOOD. I'm usually the libertarian in any given debate, but that really is something they should be making laws about.

I could be wrong. I now that soon it will be illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. Not sure about denying treatment. And if it is its not until 2014(when our healthcare bill goes into effect)

 

[StriderShinryu]

The other potential issue is that some operations have absurdly long waiting lists, so if you get backed up for two years for something that's going to kill you in six months, you're as shit out of luck there as if you get slammed with a $50,000 bill here. Basically you can die because you couldn't afford it, or you can die because you couldn't get the operation in time. Take your pick.

Eh.. not sure about that. Here in Canada, it is true that there are some major issues that don't get dealt with in time and some issues do have to get worse before they are bumped up on the priority list. I don't, however, recall ever hearing about anything like you describe happening on anything near a frequent basis. I'm not sure where you heard that from, and your perspective on paying now VS paying later is quite right, but what you say in that last paragraph sounds a lot like traditional anti gov't health care rhetoric.

 

[conflictofinterests]

I can honestly say my favourite thing about living in the U.K. is our N.H.S. I am twenty two, have nearly every tooth in my head filled, have a half crown and two extractions, and I never paid a penny. I have terrible eyesight, and I have glasses, but the only thing I needed to pay for were frames. The lens, appointments, etc. were absolutely and gloriously free. I have been to the hospital several times, for stitches in various parts of my body (mainly my head) and never had to pay a thing. I have never broken a bone, but if I did, guess what? I wouldn't have to pay a thing. I am just now finishing my education, so some of the more specialist things I may have to pay for in the future, but for now, Mister NHS and I have had a wonderful relationship.

That's a little mind-boggling for me, going to any physician and not making sure your bank account has the co-pay in it. I've personally refrained from going to my general physician because of coughs (one of which later turned out to be pneumonia) and I'm afraid of my eyesight ever deteriorating again because even with eyecare insurance my glasses and frames cost near $500 whenever I have to get a new set.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I am 26 since a few days ago. That means i had to start paying for my insurance from the start of this year on. Before that i never had to pay a doctor for treatment, or a pharmacist for medication. And i am very happy about this. Well i am a poor student and the 80 EUR a month do hurt a little, since i am of very good health it hurts even more sometimes.

Lets have a look what i would have needed to pay in the last 10 years:
A few short visits at the doc for a bad cold when i needed a day off.
One unpleasantshort visit for a *ahem* digestion problem.
I broke a toe at work.
I once woke up with my heart racing enormously, doc sent me to hospital ASAP (the racing was over after 2 hours) where they monitored me 24 hours and checked everything my cardiosystem had to offer (with the result of "holiday heart" syndrome = thats a fun way to say for a rare symptom of:.......a hangover. Yes i was totally healthy, just the amounts of wine at grandaunty's birthday were to blame.

Added to that are only my Dentists appointments that i have to do every 6 month (the insurance insists on that, if you arent checked up twice a year you have to pay for some of the treatments later, because he couldnt prevent damage, a good system in my opinion)


So nothing terrible.But what if i wasnt insured? If i had to PAY the doc for checking my broken toe, damn i wouldnt have gone to him. well its a toe, they basically dont do nothing to treat it, some painkillers and rest and its done. Most of the times. But it could have gone wrong, healed not completely or in a weird shape, which could become a source for chronical pain.
My funny story of 24 hours hospital for a hangover. Impossible to pay for. But what IF it wouldnt have been my stilldrunken heart dancing around in my chest , singing obscene songs? The worst things could have happened.
A bad cough i once hadnt treated for a week before i finally went to the doc nearly would have led to a infection of the heartmuscle if i had waited longer.

All these "little aches" and other nicnacs we here do not really think about could have dead serious results if not treated . There are still people dying of lunginfections because they fear the cost of the doctor and penecillin just to treat "a cold".Thats just a terrible waste of life in a so called civilised country.

 

[Filiecs]

It's because right now were in a pretty fucked up situation. Right now Obama is trying to get healthcare for everyone but unless the wealthy people here in america start paying slightly higher taxes. They are not going to do that because they believe that our country will become lazy and it will become the poor non-working people supported by the rich. To support their stance they have all the illegal immigrants who are having children so that they can get free food, shelter, and medical care.

So basically we can't even THINK of getting healthcare unless the rich agree to pay higher taxes or we ship all the illegal immigrants back to mexico. Right now we are pushing for the former.

 

[w9496]

Generally a decent insurance company will help pay for it, but not fully. It seemes to be our mentality here, as in take care of yourself. Plus universal health care means paying for somebody else, and would require a large portion of taxpayer dollars to support in an already poor economy.

 

[unoleian]

The system is entirely broken.
My own little foray into hospital medicine was a 30-minute out-patient procedure that will cost me almost $5,600 when it's finally paid-off.
30 minutes. $5,600, all out-of-pocket. I can't afford insurance.

I tried to establish what my costs would be before going into that, and everyone involved was completely evasive. I could get NO answer from ANYONE, except that costs "depended on a variety of factors." That's it. Not even a ballpark estimate of what I was getting myself into. My bill was received un-itemized, just a dollar figure for "OP Surgery," and my attempts to get an itemized listing of costs was incredibly time-consuming, and beyond difficult. It's like the hospital didn't want me to find out what they were charging me for.

I know someone who said that their itemization of their hospital costs included $200 for the "administration of 2 (two) aspirin. $200 to be handed a cup of TWO ASPIRIN

Aside from the ridiculously inflated costs, health insurance prices are insanely high cost per month ($300-400/month) to get a deductible under $30,000, and it seems that more often than not, any attempts to actually make an insurance claim when you need them most, will be REJECTED anyway.
It's paying endlessly into a system that just turns around and denies you coverage when you actually need it.

No wonder insurance companies lobby to keep the status-quo. These guys are reaping huge profits on the backs of normal people, and the only idea the gov have agreed on to "fix" it is to make it MANDATED THAT EVERYONE BUY HEALTH INSURANCE?! wtf?

Every day I hear more and more and more that convinces me that the people we elect are in NO WAY interested in fulfilling the will of the people. They aim to fulfill only the profit motive of the biggest earners, and take their kickbacks in the form of "campaign financing" while the 99% of the rest of us serve as nothing more than vote fodder to be placated with words to ensure incumbency, so the cycle can continue.


--Yikes, guess I kind of launched into a rant, there.--

 

[lacktheknack]

Because Americans don't want to pay for system abusers, and are willing to let people die horrible deaths in their homes or live with crippling injuries for the rest of their lives as long as they aren't paying for that smoker's treatments.

Simple and easily enforced caveats are ignored (ie: no public healthcare for you if you smoke).

http://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AHJ_VuugedubM4OYKGcTajAAtLwCfelx9Hoy9UXFk7zhL2sef2k0iGedzRI390AT4pZuChwcqFZUrGVVyrAH3UBy5_xeOen62_fojT85ItPieU28tbpmwV74TbK-wOjiFiIOL_8cCMnHDJhXukyBnQqX-NeCvbEQaw

 

[Fetzenfisch]

The other potential issue is that some operations have absurdly long waiting lists, so if you get backed up for two years for something that's going to kill you in six months, you're as shit out of luck there as if you get slammed with a $50,000 bill here. Basically you can die because you couldn't afford it, or you can die because you couldn't get the operation in time. Take your pick.

Eh.. not sure about that. Here in Canada, it is true that there are some major issues that don't get dealt with in time and some issues do have to get worse before they are bumped up on the priority list. I don't, however, recall ever hearing about anything like you describe happening on anything near a frequent basis. I'm not sure where you heard that from, and your perspective on paying now VS paying later is quite right, but what you say in that last paragraph sounds a lot like traditional anti gov't health care rhetoric.

actually this could only be true in cases that need some special equipment or specialist doctors, and only then, if the list is so long because everyone could "afford" the "free" operation. But this would mean that the lists now arent so long because a lot of people cant afford it now= they will die.
SO quoted guy is prefering a system with more casulties as long as he could buy himself an expensive ticket to survival anytime?

 

[Worgen]

the us health system kinda sucks, I Mean its good to get fast service in but you will end up in debt forever if you dont have insurance and if what you need isnt covered then you will end up paying much more since you cant negotiate as well on your own as the insurance company can

I was really hoping the Obama plan would change things but it seems like the republican assholes managed to nerf allot of what was contained in it, not to mention that a number of states are suing to be able to completely ignore it

 

[Nieroshai]

You know, despite the horror stories you hear, a hospital cannot refuse treatment of an emergency on basis of payment, and if you cannot pay up front they will give you options to pay later or waive your bill if you can prove your emergency bill is unpayable. That being said, I'd rather be handed a bill today than wait six months in line at bare minimum for a hip replacement. Also, I'm surprised you support a system where the "rich" can also take advantage of government aid when they in no way need it.

 

[conflictofinterests]

The fact that we don't have socialized health care is pathetic. Honestly it is. I don't trust companies for jack shit. Hopefully someday soon we'll all realize that universal healthcare is a good idea. I'm jealous of other developed nations, in that respect. And no, there's no way I see to defend our current medical care. The system is stupid.

You and I don't trust companies as far as we could throw them, and other people and I don't trust the government as far as we could throw it.

Have you seen what the governments at the state and federal level are doing with such a blatantly necessary thing as balancing the budgets and raising the debt ceiling so that THE ENTIRE COUNTRY DOESN'T GO BANKRUPT.

And I'm sure I don't need to tell you how outright malicious companies can be towards the general populous, but just in case I do, I have three words, Robber Baron Era.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well in America everything is a business, which is ok for the most part, really not ok when it includes politics, education and your health.

Scariest part is how the world looks at America as the shining beacon of progress, so in my country insurance companies are massively pushing for the health care system to fall out of government hands.
My aunt being a big wig in an insurance office only commented "you have no idea what shit is about to hit the fan".