USA health system... umm... what the hell?!
- Thread starter Zhukov
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Oh yeah, you don't have to tell the US that we really suck at having healthcare. Repeatedly, I've seen it fail. Obama has been halted in his progress because of Republican and Democratic bullshit clogging up the system. Both sides see that the system is broken, but because both parties hate each other's guts, Congress and the Senate are deadlocked in just about every issue from legalizing pot to banning Justin Bieber from this country.
Oh 'Merich, get your head out of your ass.
Oh 'Merich, get your head out of your ass.
Wow, that is FUBAR. Leader of the democratic nations... Let me cry some "socialist" tears for all the poor people who have died because of such a system, because there is no way in hell the companies have. This is why we have Good national Healthcare people, it is not socialist, it is having some sense of the value of human life. Corporations have FAR too much power, and things like this prove it. You should not have people out to make money control things like this, you need a system dedicated to saving people, NOT making a profit to run healthcare and the like.
You name things that are worldwide, not purely American. A large number of people believe 9/11 was a hoax because they want an excuse to believe America had no reason to go to war, many people believe the flu vaccine contains mercury and disbelieve in the moon landing. Not to debate it, but most people who disbelieve in global warming being caused by man simply need proof, not charts that are proven later to be hoaxes through email from the university it came from. Homosexuality is a bigger issue in the US so I'll pass, but only if you completely ignore the draconian laws of the Middle East. Big Foot? Well I'll laugh with you on that, but STILL AN INTERNATIONAL THING. Racism/xenophobia/sexism? Wrong by all truly humane standards, but not just an American thing. Insulting religion? Really now... is everyone outside the US border an atheist, have I really slept through this mass enlightening? China has the fastest-growing population of Christians. And while "just a theory" is not a valid counterargument, I agree, but people still want proof that evolution explains the origin of life. I agree that things have evolved to where they are now, you can ssee that in birds, dogs, etc. just as Darwin did, but what people need to believe evolution is either an admission that evolution does not explain how life began, or proof that it does explain how life began. And once again, I'm NOT trying to debate these issues, but to point out that America is by FAR not the only country that believes these things. If you want, you could say humanity at large is easily misled, I would agree with you. Just don't call all of us idiots and in the same breath say we're the world's only idiots.ReincarnatedFTP said:
As an American and also in the Armed Services (and no, I do not agree with the whole "war on terrorism" spiel as it's disturbingly similar to the Crusades), I may be able to answer this for you.Zhukov said:
In short, by and large the American people said "FUCK that."
I'd like to point out that if my sister & I lived in the US we'd be either...
A) Up to our neck in debt
B) Paying ridiculous fees for health insurance as adults
C) Dead. Very, very dead.
Smart money's on dead. We had awful health growing up, and I was prone to getting myself badly injured.
We're talking about the developed world, not third-world shit holes.
A) Up to our neck in debt
B) Paying ridiculous fees for health insurance as adults
C) Dead. Very, very dead.
Smart money's on dead. We had awful health growing up, and I was prone to getting myself badly injured.
"Fuck being able to get health care that is affordable. When we get sick, we want to have crippling debt!"SageRuffin said:
Yes. I ignore the middle east on this issue, mostly because of how remarkably backward the middle east is.Nieroshai said:
We're talking about the developed world, not third-world shit holes.
Basically, if you're in deep shit you get first dibs. Then two other types, public and private. Public you gotta wait in line. Private you gotta fork over the dough. You can also get insurance for private. That's my very basic understanding of it.ELD3RGoD said:
That system sounds completely broken. Especially when you consider that those without insurance are probably the poor, who have a whole lot of factors contributing to disease. Or that those who have chronic illness and need more health care are those who are gonna have to pay more for their insurance.
I'm not sure about how much is true, but medical shows (like Scrubs) picture doctors having to trick the system to actually treat their patients.
This, and the "I'll sue you if you so much as pinch me" mentality are the two reasons I wouldn't like to work as a doctor in the USA.
I'm not sure about how much is true, but medical shows (like Scrubs) picture doctors having to trick the system to actually treat their patients.
This, and the "I'll sue you if you so much as pinch me" mentality are the two reasons I wouldn't like to work as a doctor in the USA.
Okay, no no no.Nieroshai said:
That is not an excuse.
America had no reason to go to war in Iraq. Iraq did not attack us and was not involved in 9/11. The 9/11 conspiracy theory is not necessary to see that.
Also, I didn't say any of that last part. I'm singling out Americans because this is a thread about America's healthcare and I noted other issues I had with America in my post.
This is about America, not the world.
And?
there's a reason we have private health care. its cause in public (social) everyone gets treated. private makes it so that you odnt have to sit there with your guts hanging out of your belly while some idiot with a broken arm from trying to skate gets the attention. Whatever happened to her arm, it wasnt covered in insurance, and yeah, that sucks, but when you get insurance, you know that.
Social Healthcare is far from great, and most of the people in my college who have had to use the private healthcare system here enjoy it far more then their social ways tehy have at home. I've been told their home horror stories, and I wouldnt trade this healthcare system for anything. Does it need revamped? of course. But the basic structure is good. if you odnt have insurance, you still get treated. You sit in ER, they do your procedure (when its your time, so its a first come first serve social healthcare system), and you can either pay out right there, or sign up with a payment plan. Having to have been in the ER recently, its not that bad, and if you have insurance, all the better. If you dont, then you just sign up for a payment plan, and having seen them, they're not that bad, you just have to realize you're not going to have a lot of money for yourself, so you're going to go with less for a little bit.
there's a reason we have private health care. its cause in public (social) everyone gets treated. private makes it so that you odnt have to sit there with your guts hanging out of your belly while some idiot with a broken arm from trying to skate gets the attention. Whatever happened to her arm, it wasnt covered in insurance, and yeah, that sucks, but when you get insurance, you know that.
Social Healthcare is far from great, and most of the people in my college who have had to use the private healthcare system here enjoy it far more then their social ways tehy have at home. I've been told their home horror stories, and I wouldnt trade this healthcare system for anything. Does it need revamped? of course. But the basic structure is good. if you odnt have insurance, you still get treated. You sit in ER, they do your procedure (when its your time, so its a first come first serve social healthcare system), and you can either pay out right there, or sign up with a payment plan. Having to have been in the ER recently, its not that bad, and if you have insurance, all the better. If you dont, then you just sign up for a payment plan, and having seen them, they're not that bad, you just have to realize you're not going to have a lot of money for yourself, so you're going to go with less for a little bit.
Yeah, as an American I think this is fucking bullshit, working in a hospital shouldn't be only about making money (I understand that people need to make money though), it should be about helping people who need it.
Let me provide you some insight, from someone who has experienced both kinds of systems. First, some pertinent background info:Zhukov said:
I have Crohn's Disease--it's a chronic autoimmune disorder that basically means my immune system attacks a portion of my small intestine. That's very oversimplified, but it's painful, lifelong, and the medication is pretty expensive.
I grew up in a Marine Corps home. That means we had access to no-cost Navy medical facilities, just one of the services our government provides for its soldiers and their families. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it. However...
I've witnessed firsthand what this sort of medicine can do (and what it can't). Every member of my family has had a "close call," and several friends of the family have died as a result of the botched care provided. It's not that the doctors were uneducated or negligent--that could happen anywhere. It's that they have two responsibilities that change the way they approach treatment:
1. The responsibility to keep cost down.
2. The responsibility to get each case pushed through, because the line gets backed up fast.
As a result, a five-year-old girl with a ruptured appendix was diagnosed with the flu that was going around. She died. Two mothers-to-be with "tubal" pregnancies (an irregularity that basically causes the embryo to implant in the Fallopian tube, rather than the uterus) not only lot the babies, but died because the correct precautions weren't taken. My mother nearly bled out from the inside because of a slipped IUD, which they wrote off as "the flu that was going around." Another woman did die when she bled out after a laproscopic procedure, because they didn't keep her overnight for observation. When I first started showing symptoms of Crohn's, they ruled out Crohn's before they even did any tests, and I went for nearly a year untreated. This was all in just one of the hospitals, within two years.
But it's not just one bad hospital. One more story: My parents' first child was arriving very early. It was not expected that she would be born alive, so the doctors did not prepare for a live birth. She was born alive, and there was a delay getting her the proper care for a premature baby. She died a week later.
I know it would be easy to write this off as just "bad doctors doing stupid things." But look into cases like this, and you can see the financial concerns behind it all. These hospitals are crowded, because people want to use them. And they've still got to come in under budget, when all is said and done--it's just a different budget.
I will also say, when you're hiring doctors... well, if they know they're getting paid a lot less, you will be more likely to settle for not-the-best doctors, because they'll settle for not-the-best salaries, won't they? So finances even play a part in the negligence, when you get right down to it. Additionally, the tendency is to start with the cheapest tests first, only working your way up if it seems absolutely necessary (rather than eliminating the most dangerous problems first).
These hospitals are great for routine things. If you actually have "that flu that's going around," you're in luck! They're equipped to efficiently handle all the routine problems you can throw at them... but the second there's a hitch? Or the second there's a financial shortcut?
And this isn't just America. Speak with some people from other "socialized medicine" countries. Not the routine patients, but the ones with complications. You're going to hear the same kinds of stories, because money still matters, unfortunate as that might be.
_________
Aside: Now, I'll also concede that socialized medicine is a problem here because of our national culture. Half of the nation doesn't want to pay for the health problems of those that choose to smoke, do drugs, and get fat. The other half of the nation doesn't want the government telling them they can't smoke, do drugs, or get fat. Both are a result of our fiercely individualistic culture, and our tendency to put our perceived rights over those of others.
There's also our national aversion to taxes. As someone who works in education, I know how important taxes are. We haven't had a pay increase in five years, and we've in fact taken massive cuts and had to spend more out-of-pocket just to keep things from falling apart. Socialized medicine, like education, takes real money, and that means higher taxes. People don't want to pay them.
So, yeah, we've got some problems, too. And the current system, with its hidden costs that catch you after you've received treatment, or all the caveats and exceptions insurance companies throw around... yeah, it's far from perfect. But so's the alternative.
As someone with an expensive, painful disease, I still say that I prefer a system in which my treatment isn't handled by, for all intents and purposes, the "lowest bidder." Just like the battle between capitalism and socialism, the "free market" actually exists somewhere between the two.
if medical college got cheaper ,dont you think it will change doctors' attitudes a bit when it comes to charging people??
If education were cheaper you could hope that doctors aren't as big scumbags when it comes to taking your money.
In India,where I'm from doctors have to complete practice for 2 years in rural areas where they treat poor people who cant afford urban quality treatments.
How difficult will be to implement something like that in your country?Is it already there?
Compulsory social service before your degree?
Seems like a good idea to me
If education were cheaper you could hope that doctors aren't as big scumbags when it comes to taking your money.
In India,where I'm from doctors have to complete practice for 2 years in rural areas where they treat poor people who cant afford urban quality treatments.
How difficult will be to implement something like that in your country?Is it already there?
Compulsory social service before your degree?
Seems like a good idea to me
