USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[Scrubiii]

No country anywhere has free healthcare, you just pay for it now instead of later. There's a reason taxes in the United States are among the lowest in the world, while medical bills here are through the roof. Though I should point out that Allison's insurance (you know, that she paid for) backed out, so if we're going to have some government intervention it should really be in making sure insurance companies don't do clearly illegal things like that.

In principle though, I don't have a problem with socialized healthcare. If the government wants to run a program, great. What I have a problem with is mandatory socialized healthcare. If someone wants to go with a private insurance provider instead of the government option, they should have the right to do that.

The other potential issue is that some operations have absurdly long waiting lists, so if you get backed up for two years for something that's going to kill you in six months, you're as shit out of luck there as if you get slammed with a $50,000 bill here. Basically you can die because you couldn't afford it, or you can die because you couldn't get the operation in time. Take your pick.

Some operations do have long waiting lists, but none of them are operations for things that will kill you in six months. Here in Britain for example, you might have to wait a month to get a wart treated, or an extra few days for an X-ray on a potentially broken wrist, but if you need a heart bypass, you'll get one.

 

[Ghengis John]

Wow, didn't know the Escapist Community was a bunch of liberals.

"A bunch of liberals" I think that says everything right there. Your labeling people's opinions is your own conscious decision, to choose not to give honest thought to their opinions or to the situation. Why? Because that would inconvenience you. In your conscience or in your wallet. And as Mark Twain once said, the second one often stops people from listening to the first.

Someone on The Escapist needed surgery. Yes, it sucks, it really does. But as a hard working American who is trying to save enough money for his first house to start a family, why should my paychecks be slashed so that every Tom, Dick, and Nancy can get whatever they need? Work hard, get ahead; that's hardly a terrible concept.

There are a thousand reasons why. Ranging from the logical: Entitlement programs prevent disenfranchisement improving governmental stability and lowering crime. To the philosophical: "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself." What you should ask yourself is why as a hard working American can you not afford a house. Do you know how many hard working Americans can not afford healthcare? The girl in question is educated and has a job. Think about that.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

America had no reason to go to war in Iraq. Iraq did not attack us and was not involved in 9/11. The 9/11 conspiracy theory is not necessary to see that.

As much as I disagree with lots of what the U.S. does, there have been many reasons to go to war with Iraq.

Okay, let me rephrase what I meant.

There are many reasons to go to war with a lot of countries. After 9/11 Iraq was not a country that posed a threat to the US.

 

[Dana22]

Yeah, as an American I think this is fucking bullshit, working in a hospital shouldn't be only about making money (I understand that people need to make money though), it should be about helping people who need it.

Yep, but dont forget that those people studied/trained/learned 15-20 years to do that. They deserve bigger compensation in wages, then uncle bob who never went to college and fixes refrigerators.

 

[emeraldrafael]

On top of that, this country has so many people (illegal immigrants, for example) that don't pay taxes. This means that people would be leeching the system while making everyone else pay for it.

Or you could have a national insurance card or other form of citizenship identification. Then again, what do you do about all those illegals using your roads ...

You dont really Pay for a road. I mean, you pay taxes on it for the maintance, and occasionally a toll road, but to actually charge someone for using a road, that would mean that every connecting intersection would involve a toll post, and no country would do that.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

So when is it okay to have the politics section in the off topic?

 

[Scrubiii]

How many think global warming is a hoax?

There is actually extremely strong evidence that Global Warming, (or at least global warming as a result of human actions), is completely false.

 

[dehboy]

I sign of hope? Don't make me laugh. I'm all for fiscal responsibility. Everyone made a stink when Bush ran America into debt (and rightly so). How come when Obama's "change" cost America WAAAAAY more than Bush, no one cares?

It is rather funny that all liberals think that any point of conservatism must have come from the brain washing company called "Fox." I care about the next person as much as everyone else, but I work hard to provide to myself. Are you too lazy to provide for yourself?

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Our system is expensive (both for insurance and medical costs) because of many different factors. Malpractice suits force M.D.'s to run more tests than is necessary for CYA purposes, which in turn causes more cost to the patient. Medicare/Medicaid insurance policy forms which are required by law for physician offices to fill out are complex and time-consuming red-tape that forces them to hire extra help to wade through the BS (thus why not all physicians cover Medicare/Medicaid). Health insurance is not available at the national level, its done state-by-state by law which raises the cost. These aren't all the factors, but they're a major part. And the ideas that have been laid forth to reduce healthcare costs (Tort reform, nationwide coverage) have been summarily rejected in favor of a government run healthcare idea despite the US Government lawmakers who write such laws having little-to-no experience or education on healthcare. We don't have a perfect system, but socializing medicine in the US isn't an answer to the general problems we face. Perhaps people should read up on the cost of a doctor's visit prior to the popularity of malpractice lawsuits in the US and how that affected our current state of being.
Also, ever bother to check and see how much it costs to become a doctor in the US (College fees for 8 or more years of school) and how that relates to the cost of medical care?

 

[Yeager942]

Short version:

Yeah, it sucks.

 

[RaikuFA]

something like this happened near me. my brothers girlfriends mothers boyfriend(whew!) went to the hospital cause he was coughing up blood. doctor didnt even look at him and just sent him home. he was found dead later that day

yeah our healthcare can save a nutjob who shouldve died at the first heart attack yet wont even let a doctor look at a average joe whos coughing up a vampires snack

our health can help you, but only if you have money

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

American here.

Same here. Let's address some of your concerns:

How many Americans think 9/11 was a government conspiracy?
How many Americans think vaccines cause autism?
How many Americans think the moon landing was a hoax?
How many think global warming is a hoax?

The answer to these? Very, very few. A completely negligible amount. They just use the internet to seem bigger.

How many think gay is a choice?

No one I've ever heard of. However, there are some who believe that sexuality is more that just biology, and that there are strong psychological components to attraction and sexuality that we should also understand. I've never heard anyone say, in earnest, that they thought sexuality was a conscious choice. Saying you don't think it's entirely, universally, and irrevocably genetic is not the same as saying it's a choice--that's called a "false dichotomy," and I point it out because most of what you're saying is all about pushing false dichotomies.

This country is completely idiotic.

You mean because a small number of people draw fantastical conclusions based on limited information filtered through a horribly biased perspective, and then over-apply those conclusions to the population at large? Yeah... I could see that.

You don't read very many polls, do you? Here's a fun thing for you to do. Go visit the National Science Board's website and read their annual "Science and Engineering Indicators" reports. Pay particular attention to Chapter 7 - Science and Technology: Public Attitudes and Understanding.

Oh, you can also use Google to search for various polls conducted by places like Rasmussen or Gallup to find out the various percentages. Some are indeed quite small, ~5%. Others are in the 20-40% range. And then the religious population of the country is over 85%, so that really does make the population of people who are quite fond of bullshit beliefs (every religion has some) the overwhelming majority.

Also, I would like to say gay is hardly a choice. You can argue about minor details but at the end of the day you don't really choose to be a homosexual.

 

[Grimbold]

She would have been unable to use her arms and the insurance did not pay?
What happened? Did she chop them off herself?

 

[Scrubiii]

Yeah, as an American I think this is fucking bullshit, working in a hospital shouldn't be only about making money (I understand that people need to make money though), it should be about helping people who need it.

Yep, but dont forget that those people studied/trained/learned 15-20 years to do that. They deserve bigger compensation in wages, then uncle bob who never went to college and fixes refrigerators.

Britain has a socialised health system, but doctors here still get paid a very large wage. Public healthcare does not result in a reduction of staff wages.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

Okay, I'll admit completely idiotic is hyperbole.

I just think you're assigning each of your complaints way more weight than they actually hold in the real world. You're also painting each group with a pretty broad and unfavorable brush--for instance, not everyone who thinks that global warming is being overstated thinks that it's a "hoax," or not everyone who believes in a supernatural Creation is "fundamentally religious."

You're reaching into a very small group, picking out the absolute worst example you can find, and claiming that represents the entire group. And then you're acting as though that small group makes up a major share of our population here. Neither of those is intellectually honest. That's all I'm getting at.

Yeah, it makes us seem cosmopolitan to be self-hating Americans. It's the cool new thing to be political hipsters, hating whatever is in the spotlight at any given moment. Luxembourg was so cool before everyone knew where it was, and all that. And hey, you're entitled to your opinion, obviously... but maybe dial it back a bit?

I did no such thing. I did not say everyone who thinks global warming is being overstated thinks it's a hoax. I merely rhetorically asked how many Americans "think [it's] a hoax?"


I'm very proud to be a US citizen, just not in terms of USA #1 and once again, I was hyperbolic, thank you very much. Our country has strengths that most of the rest of the world does not, and we've accomplished so much cool stuff in our relatively short history as a country. But I don't pretend the glaring flaws that we as a country have don't exist, nor do I try to dismiss them as being negligible as you are doing. I just felt like venting.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Wow, didn't know the Escapist Community was a bunch of liberals.

In case anyone hasn't heard, America is trillions and trillions of dollars in debt. If you have a universal free health care, the government is forced to pay the cost. Since the government's only true form of gaining money is taxation, you are putting the burden on the American taxpayer to pay for everyone's health care. On top of that, this country has so many people (illegal immigrants, for example) that don't pay taxes. This means that people would be leeching the system while making everyone else pay for it.

Not only that, but you take away the competitiveness of the private sector, the place where America started becoming so great. Why shouldn't the veteran doctor of 30 dollars be allowed to charge more for his services? If you don't want to pay, then go talk to the straight from college doctor ready to make his mark on the world. In the private sector, you get that for which you pay! You take that competitiveness away, there is NO INCENTIVE to do better at your job (the exact reasons why public unions in this country are such a damn travesty).

Someone on The Escapist needed surgery. Yes, it sucks, it really does. But as a hard working American who is trying to save enough money for his first house to start a family, why should my paychecks be slashed so that every Tom, Dick, and Nancy can get whatever they need? Work hard, get ahead; that's hardly a terrible concept.

Yes. American's may have to pay somewhere even CLOSE to where the rest of the world pay taxes. America has the lowest tax rate of every developed country in the world. Man up a bit, and pay your share. What happened to banding together?

 

[Scrubiii]

I sign of hope? Don't make me laugh. I'm all for fiscal responsibility. Everyone made a stink when Bush ran America into debt (and rightly so). How come when Obama's "change" cost America WAAAAAY more than Bush, no one cares?

It is rather funny that all liberals think that any point of conservatism must have come from the brain washing company called "Fox." I care about the next person as much as everyone else, but I work hard to provide to myself. Are you too lazy to provide for yourself?

There is a difference between being "too lazy to provide for yourself" and having a spare $20,000 lying around.

 

[Da Orky Man]

You know, despite the horror stories you hear, a hospital cannot refuse treatment of an emergency on basis of payment, and if you cannot pay up front they will give you options to pay later or waive your bill if you can prove your emergency bill is unpayable. That being said, I'd rather be handed a bill today than wait six months in line at bare minimum for a hip replacement. Also, I'm surprised you support a system where the "rich" can also take advantage of government aid when they in no way need it.

Hey, I was diagnosed with severe scoliosis last year. I got the £150,000 surgery to fix it within a month on the NHS. The supposed 6-month waiting list almost never reveals itself.

 

[Ghengis John]

Yeah, as an American I think this is fucking bullshit, working in a hospital shouldn't be only about making money (I understand that people need to make money though), it should be about helping people who need it.

Yep, but dont forget that those people studied/trained/learned 15-20 years to do that. They deserve bigger compensation in wages, then uncle bob who never went to college and fixes refrigerators.

They get better compensation than uncle bob. The guy they don't get better pay than is the guy with a 2 year business degree who oversees a wing of the hospital.