USA health system... umm... what the hell?!
- Thread starter Zhukov
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Pathetic that nobody wanted to read it or pathetic that it's 3000+ pages? Honestly, I don't see how a bill can physically be 3000 pages. Stephen King novels aren't even 3000 pages and they're full blown narratives with extreme pacing. Either this thing is written and organized really poorly (possibly intentionally as some type of filibuster,) or there's a LOT on it. My guess is it's the former, but even if it isn't, I don't think the human brain would be capable of retaining over 3000 pages of precise information. Anyone who did read it would probably only have a vague understanding of it at best.GartarkMusik said:
can we do the USA bashing to a greater extreme if we are US citizens?
okay, I jest.
well, there was a joke about that that i like.
there was a man in the US who was protesting socialized medicine (for all the stupid reasons, like because it contains the word socialized. no seriously, people are like that in the US.)
either way, the man has an arrow through his skull.
someone points out that if he had social medicine, it would be removed for no cost. he points out all the arguments that the OP mentioned.
he then counters with the quality of care in the US (it is pretty good quality)
the person then asks that, if that is so, then why didn't he have the arrow removed?
he replies with "I can't afford it."
it was from the idrewthis webcomic. if you are so inclied, look through their comics sometime. they do give an accurate look at how the US is.
okay, I jest.
well, there was a joke about that that i like.
there was a man in the US who was protesting socialized medicine (for all the stupid reasons, like because it contains the word socialized. no seriously, people are like that in the US.)
either way, the man has an arrow through his skull.
someone points out that if he had social medicine, it would be removed for no cost. he points out all the arguments that the OP mentioned.
he then counters with the quality of care in the US (it is pretty good quality)
the person then asks that, if that is so, then why didn't he have the arrow removed?
he replies with "I can't afford it."
it was from the idrewthis webcomic. if you are so inclied, look through their comics sometime. they do give an accurate look at how the US is.
A good portion of the resistance to going to the doctor is, from what I understand, people not having enough money to afford health insurance. Nobody who spends the money monthly to have health insurance will look at a festering sore on their foot and think, "Yeah, it'll go away. No need to get that checked, no matter how bad it starts to smell."peruvianskys said:
Some people even go soo far as to take the route that I did, by joining the military. Free healthcare, among things. Sure, it has its definite drawbacks but, at least I know while I'm in my family and I will be cared for.
It's all a matter of opinion, and how far your willing to go or how much your willing to pay to get what your comfortable with.
it is actually a special language us mere mortals cannot comprehend called legalese.Guitarmasterx7 said:
it's why everything involved with a contract (or just a lawyer) is 500 pages more than it needs to be. when it could be just one page, a lawyer will make it several hundred easily.
This is what happens when republicans are backed by corporations, especially after citizens united. But at least the old ways are changing, the new generation is overwhelmingly democratic, and is often in support of things like socialization of vital services. The republican extremism is going to die out soon, and maybe a better, more moderate, fiscally conservative republican party. To be honest, if it was not for the internet being able to give us unfiltered information, america would be boned/rant
While I believe the US system is messed up that it isn't at all surprising that many simply refuse to get treatment, I have some stories about how awesome and screwed up our socialized health-care system is in Canada:
- For example, a few years ago I accidentally cut off the top of my right index finger (about 4mm [a tenth of an inch] from the tip) and waited over 5 hours in the hospital before I received treatment. At that point i had seriously lost about a liter of blood (a little over a quarter gallon). Furthermore, even after it was stitched back on, the skin turned black and rotted off over the next week. Thankfully the muscle reattached and didn't get infected.
- That said when my brother had appendicitis he was being prept for surgery within 5 MINUTES of arriving at the hospital and I a hernia of my intestines and I was being prept for surgery within 15 minutes of arriving.
- For example, a few years ago I accidentally cut off the top of my right index finger (about 4mm [a tenth of an inch] from the tip) and waited over 5 hours in the hospital before I received treatment. At that point i had seriously lost about a liter of blood (a little over a quarter gallon). Furthermore, even after it was stitched back on, the skin turned black and rotted off over the next week. Thankfully the muscle reattached and didn't get infected.
- That said when my brother had appendicitis he was being prept for surgery within 5 MINUTES of arriving at the hospital and I a hernia of my intestines and I was being prept for surgery within 15 minutes of arriving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anglosphere_2007_overweight_rate.pngMakerOfRoads said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_New_Zealand
It would work, it would just be more costly,
also, why I am moving to the EU/Turkey/South America whenever I get the chance
Americans have a nasty habit of assuming that their country is the only civilized place on the face of the Earth - as a result, they often believe that their way of doing things is THE ONLY WAY of ever doing things.
Many, many, many, many, many prosperous, capitalist democracies have government covered health care for the poor, which exists ALONGSIDE private health cover. We have private AND government hospitals. Yes! Believe it or not, the two CAN co-exist! Australia, in case you haven't noticed, is not communist, and, in fact, we have a HIGHER life expectancy than the United States!
Now, the argument against this is that it takes up taxpayer money. And yes, it does. Having government hospitals is expensive. But can you really put a price on Health? Helping your citizens stay healthy should be the FIRST priority of government - the health care system should be the most important thing.
The Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars on shiny jets and guns. They have a needlessly large military, 10x larger than it needs to be for the purposes of "defense". Couldn't they.... I don't know.... take a few billion dollars and spend it on saving people's lives instead of building better bombs? You guys have no immediate threats to you - Mexico has a joke of an Airforce and Canada ain't gonna invade anytime soon. You're surrounded by a huge ocean. Your military and navy and airforce are miles ahead of everyone else's. Yet you continue to inflate the military budget and spend more and more on making more lethal weapons. You have your priorities the wrong way around. The US is so invested in maintaining its super power status, that it doesn't really care about the lives of its own citizens any more.
If Australia, if New Zealand, if England, if France and if Germany can have public health care and/or healthcare reform which ensures the majority are covered, the US can do it to. The US went to the freaking MOON. If they can do that, they can sure as heck can make their citizens healthy.
Many, many, many, many, many prosperous, capitalist democracies have government covered health care for the poor, which exists ALONGSIDE private health cover. We have private AND government hospitals. Yes! Believe it or not, the two CAN co-exist! Australia, in case you haven't noticed, is not communist, and, in fact, we have a HIGHER life expectancy than the United States!
Now, the argument against this is that it takes up taxpayer money. And yes, it does. Having government hospitals is expensive. But can you really put a price on Health? Helping your citizens stay healthy should be the FIRST priority of government - the health care system should be the most important thing.
The Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars on shiny jets and guns. They have a needlessly large military, 10x larger than it needs to be for the purposes of "defense". Couldn't they.... I don't know.... take a few billion dollars and spend it on saving people's lives instead of building better bombs? You guys have no immediate threats to you - Mexico has a joke of an Airforce and Canada ain't gonna invade anytime soon. You're surrounded by a huge ocean. Your military and navy and airforce are miles ahead of everyone else's. Yet you continue to inflate the military budget and spend more and more on making more lethal weapons. You have your priorities the wrong way around. The US is so invested in maintaining its super power status, that it doesn't really care about the lives of its own citizens any more.
If Australia, if New Zealand, if England, if France and if Germany can have public health care and/or healthcare reform which ensures the majority are covered, the US can do it to. The US went to the freaking MOON. If they can do that, they can sure as heck can make their citizens healthy.
Pathetic that no one wanted to read it. I mean yeah, that's gonna be a hell of a tough read, no doubt about that, but shouldn't the fact that this bill will have a HUGE impact on America as a whole make sure that SOMEONE knows just exactly what it will mean for an average American?Guitarmasterx7 said:
Also, we are the only developed country in the world that DOES NOT have socialized health care. Hell, places like Mexico, which we Americans consider a shithole, have it. We really need to catch up with the timesKorolev said:
You want to know why government health care is bad? Why do you feel like I should pay for your health care? If I have to pay for your health care, I don't want you to do anything dangerous. We must outlaw motorcycles, hang gliding, skateboarding, sky diving, and any thing else that is not necessary and could possibly hurt you. Can't have people being a burden on the budget.
