USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[silent-treatment]

Americans have a nasty habit of assuming that their country is the only civilized place on the face of the Earth - as a result, they often believe that their way of doing things is THE ONLY WAY of ever doing things.

Many, many, many, many, many prosperous, capitalist democracies have government covered health care for the poor, which exists ALONGSIDE private health cover. We have private AND government hospitals. Yes! Believe it or not, the two CAN co-exist! Australia, in case you haven't noticed, is not communist, and, in fact, we have a HIGHER life expectancy than the United States!

Now, the argument against this is that it takes up taxpayer money. And yes, it does. Having government hospitals is expensive. But can you really put a price on Health? Helping your citizens stay healthy should be the FIRST priority of government - the health care system should be the most important thing.

The Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars on shiny jets and guns. They have a needlessly large military, 10x larger than it needs to be for the purposes of "defense". Couldn't they.... I don't know.... take a few billion dollars and spend it on saving people's lives instead of building better bombs? You guys have no immediate threats to you - Mexico has a joke of an Airforce and Canada ain't gonna invade anytime soon. You're surrounded by a huge ocean. Your military and navy and airforce are miles ahead of everyone else's. Yet you continue to inflate the military budget and spend more and more on making more lethal weapons. You have your priorities the wrong way around. The US is so invested in maintaining its super power status, that it doesn't really care about the lives of its own citizens any more.

If Australia, if New Zealand, if England, if France and if Germany can have public health care and/or healthcare reform which ensures the majority are covered, the US can do it to. The US went to the freaking MOON. If they can do that, they can sure as heck can make their citizens healthy.

I agree with every point you made, but your delivery of it was flawed. You assume Americans do not KNOW all of these points and agree that they all suck, but what you have to understand is that all of the power in the US is on the people it is in the top 2-3% of people (income-wise).

See in America there is such a thing as Lobbyists, and what these people jobs are is to go into Washington and make back alley deals with politicians to make laws that provide favorably for these major companies that hire them. Oil companies, electronic companies, entertainment companies, you name a major US company, or hell probably EVERY major company in the world, odds are they have an arm or influence in the US government.

It is shitty, and every one of that 98-97% HATES that it exists. I hate it, the Democrats hate it, The republicans hate it, EVERYONE hates it, but it is next to impossible to fix. It would require a group of people to be elected into powerful political offices, and be able to sway others to their ideas. But America is so sectioned off and divided up, and most people only vote down party lines. People do not take the right to vote very seriously any more, and this is a big issue. Basically for anything to change in this rather large country in which I call my home People will need to start giving a shit about each other. And this is not to say that Americans are bad people who hate their fellow man(looks at picture of WBC) okay SOME do, but most don't, they just want to provide for their families in a corrupt system that fucks you when ever it can.

And if pretending that that country is the best country in the world helps one feel better, then they will do that. Because it beats the SHIT out of having to realize that they are getting fucked by the people who they elected to lead them.

 

[Rayansaki]

You don't feel so bad paying 2x's the price for games now, do ya?

Whenever people bring it up, Insurance lobbyists cry that it will cause people to wait years for their major surgeries, people won't be able to choose their own doctors, and it will cause our best doctors to flee the country. People actually believe them too.

Fear Tactics FTW.

The waiting for major surgeries is not necessarily wrong tho.

I live in Portugal, and a lot of surgeries here have up to 4-5 years waiting lists. Obviously, if theres a life or death case, you skip the waiting list, but non life threatning cases have to wait years.

A good example is Cataract Surgery has several years of waiting list, and a lot of people waiting go blind for some time before finally getting their surgery

 

[Double A]

Surgery is expensive. If it were paid by the government, everyone would still be paying for it through taxes (and then some).

Be mad at the insurance industry. They're real assholes when it comes to paying for surgery etc. It needs a reformation, not the boot. Greater taxes are far worse than what it is now, in my opinion.

And before anyone mentions it, yes I am aware of our ludicrously large military. We need budget cuts, not something else to take the military's place. Debt is very, very high for the government, and the last thing it needs is a health program that costs billions.

 

[PhiMed]

Yes, you're missing something. First, you didn't understand the story. Pretty much everything you said about the injury to her shoulder was wrong.

Second, you got the monetary amount incorrect. It's ok, though. It's only a margin of error of 33%.

Third, you don't understand anything about the American health system. Emergencies are treated whether the patient has the ability to pay or not. The fact that hospitals have to treat emergencies but will never receive payment for them (from anyone, ever) is part of the fucked up part about the system.

See, other governments have systems where the government pays for everyone's health care, or the government actually runs the hospitals and clinics. Here, private companies run the care facilities and a separate group of private companies pay for them, but the government forces the care-giving companies (you know, the ones who actually do shit) to eat the cost of emergencies in cases where the patient is uninsured. It's really easy to argue that a hospital is heartless for considering turning away a 65 year-old lifelong alcoholic who got hit by a truck until you think about the fact that the funds they spent on saving his life (such as it is) could have been spent on a new incubator for the neonatal intensive care unit.

Don't rant about shit you know nothing about, please. We have enough of that from our own citizens.

 

[Fearzone]

First of all, there is nothing wrong with paying a fair price for services you receive.

Second, there is nothing fair about prices in the American Health system, it is all screwed up, and ObamaCare screwed it up worse.

 

[Jewrean]

I didn't read your wall of text. But to make it clear, yes the American health care system is stupid, corrupt, and puts a LOT of money in the pockets while people die of disease. However, even though there are many horror stories, don't assume that every insurance company over there is the same and don't assume everyone is going through the same bullshit treatment. A very relevant movie is Sicko by Michael Moore but remember to take his opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[Zenn3k]

I agree. I think it's ridiculous that USA doesn't have socialized health care, nearly all other developed country has it. It has something to do with USA's deep-rooted fear of socialism and "Dem evil reds!" I think.

No, it has to do with private industry controlling our health care and not wanting to give up that control.

Sadly the system can't change because half of our government is in league with these corporations who pay them big money in campaign contributions.

Its even worse when you realize that our food is DESIGNED to make us sick, so we have to go to the doctor, and the insurance company makes money.

Whole system is fucked up beyond repair, and nothing short of a revolution is going to solve it.

 

[ryanxm]

see its ok because this is America, and we aint no commie socalists! we're good clean pure capitalists.

All joking aside yes its horrible that she was expected to come up with such a large amount of money. And while i do think its strange that we have socialized things like law enforcement, fire fighters, education, etc that we havent done the same with such an important thing. However thats just how its all played out up until this point. hopefully once we fix a few outher things (like that ever growing debt ¬_¬) that we will start working on that. I sure wish i had something silly to say, or some great picture to post...

 

[Gaiseric]

System could use some work, but how or what should be done I have no idea.

My experience with the health system has been very positive. My doctor is a king for all the things he has and continues to do for me. I don't have insurance anymore and he just tells me to pay 10-20 bucks instead of the 100 or so it would be otherwise. And he gives me free samples of the medication I need so I don't have to pay for a prescription. Been going to him for over 3 years(every 3 months) and he's done these things since the beginning.

 

[Tiger Sora]

It's extremely expensive to have a government run healthcare system. The Canadian system is well a paper bag. Hospitals have fundraisers to get new equipment because their budget can't afford anything much over the operating cost. What I really think is wrong with our system isn't the wait times and that stuff, though it is. It's a population/distance problem. Were a big country with a small population for it's size. We have hospitals and clinics everywhere but not the population size to tax for it to be very feasible. But we have to do it this way cause thats how it is. If Canada had 300 million people to tax, the system would need a massive upgrade and the logistics would be a nightmare. But there'd be alot more money to go around. I'm no financial expert though so my theory could very well be flawed. America also steals all our doctors and nurses to because theres more money to make down in the private businesses. We have a crippling doctor and nurse shortage in Canada you know. And it's all big fat America's fault.

America... healthcare isn't socialist. The Cold Wars been over for 20 years. Why do they call it such, did the Soviets create the idea of healthcare or somethin'. Anyways quit being a backwards ass nation when it comes to everything but tech.

As for the chick who got hurt. I'm glad they were able to raise the cash.

 

[Comrade Mateo]

The Republican health care policy is something along the lines of "just don't get sick".

GENIUS! I LOVE AMERICA.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

Your acting like a majority of us Americans actually likes our current system of health care... (hint: we don't)

 

[DracoSuave]

Pay more taxes you sissies. You'll get good health care and even have a balanced deficit. Hows them lower taxes working out for you every time your economy buckles under the weight of debt? That last little recession not warning enough for ya?

You won't be able to spend your way out of the next one. Your economy isn't dying because of banks, it's dying because of national debt. Pony up, and get the services you deserve out of it. Anything else is retarded.

 

[BonsaiK]

See, here in Australia, what with our evil communist government health system, we occasionally like to tell silly campfire horror stories about the state of health care in the US. Y'know, tales about that terrible place where you can get hit by a car and hospital staff will refuse to put you back together unless you throw wads of money or medical insurance forms at them. I never really knew what to think about these stories. And, quite frankly, I didn't particularly care because hey, why would I? That mess is an entire Pacific Ocean away. But this whole business with Extra Credits and the injury of the Pink Bean seems to suggest that those stories were disquieting close to the truth.

It's true, the health care system in the US is a mess. Obama has tried to make it better but he can't do much, because he's fighting against America's frontierist "every man for himself" mentality which is still a big part of the culture over there - as soon as you start changing things everyone cries a river of tears over "socialism" for some unknown reason, like that's got anything to do with it.

I know first-hand how bad the US medical system is, I've never been to the States but my label sends people there sometimes. When a touring artist over there gets sick, we tell them to come home, we do not advise them to check into a US hospital under any circumstances. Virus - home. Broken limb - home. Minor gunshot wound - home. If they can physically board a plane they are coming home. The cost of going back to Australia, getting treated, and then flying back over there again to resume a tour while the rest of the band wait in expensive hotel rooms is still significantly less than going into a hospital in the US. The story in the OP about the Extra Credits guy doesn't surprise me one bit and is completely normal.

 

[Hawkmoon269]

I do truly feel bad for america on the whole health care matter. True, here in England, if its a non life threatening condition, you might have to wait a little while before getting seen to, but you always get seen too, thats the great thing!
From the moment you're born to the moment you die you have a system that will care for you, no matter what the problem.
Its one of the things that makes the country great, and we Brits/English dont tend to say that often enough, in my opinion.

 

[RelexCryo]

I agree. I think it's ridiculous that USA doesn't have socialized health care, nearly all other developed country has it. It has something to do with USA's deep-rooted fear of socialism and "Dem evil reds!" I think.

It's called corporate propaganda coupled with gullible peoples.

Actually, most people in the United States support a public health care option. The lack of health care is derived not from a lack of public support, but from the fact that the groups in power stay in power without public support. People in general tend to believe both major parties are horribly corrupt and a bad choice, yet they both stay in power. How they manage to stay in power without public support is the question.

 

[BanthaFodder]

No country anywhere has free healthcare, you just pay for it now instead of later. There's a reason taxes in the United States are among the lowest in the world, while medical bills here are through the roof. Though I should point out that Allison's insurance (you know, that she paid for) backed out, so if we're going to have some government intervention it should really be in making sure insurance companies don't do clearly illegal things like that.

In principle though, I don't have a problem with socialized healthcare. If the government wants to run a program, great. What I have a problem with is mandatory socialized healthcare. If someone wants to go with a private insurance provider instead of the government option, they should have the right to do that.

The other potential issue is that some operations have absurdly long waiting lists, so if you get backed up for two years for something that's going to kill you in six months, you're as shit out of luck there as if you get slammed with a $50,000 bill here. Basically you can die because you couldn't afford it, or you can die because you couldn't get the operation in time. Take your pick.

thank you, for you have summed up my entire point of view on this and saved me from wording my opinoon wrong and looking like a totaly ass infront of everyone.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I actually wonder how much of the terribly high prices of medical care are down to the stupidly high levels of legal costs involved with saving lives now.

I do believe there should be some comeback for people who were treated with negligence, but damn, the amount of lawyers out there now who pretty much live off of people having accidents or deciding that their heart transplant left them with an ugly scar that could have been done better, it's a shitty system.

Without the constant threat of frivolous lawsuits, prices could come down. (Of course I'm highly cynical that they WOULD come down, but that's an issue for another thread.) I don't really know how to fix it, but you never really heard of this stuff 20 years ago. Seems the only ads on TV now are for bingo websites, loan companies and injury lawyers, and I'd guess the lawyers are in it for the same reason as the first two. (Not saying all lawyers are bad.)

Surely however, once a doctor/nurse/surgeon passes all their exams, tests, etc and qualifies as a medical professional, they're then good enough to be working as one. Let the greatest work for private companies, the slightly less skilled are still out there saving hundreds of lives.

I also think one of the greatest problem has been mentioned a few times already, that particularly in the US and in Britain, it seems most of the public would rather cut off their own arm than see any of their money go to help a fellow human being.

I think if Obama brought in a law that stated 1 in 10 american households would be selected at random and made to house a homeless person, quite a few of those homes would end up burned to the ground by their owners rather than see them forced to do something nice for someone else.

That's the essence of the problem, healthcare helps everyone, but everyone's terrified that someone else is going to get more than them. Therefore they'd rather not have it at all.

Also, as ever, the FEAR of a concept, is nearly always far greater than the actual threat. The War on Terror - there's really not entire countries of extremists foaming at the mouth trying to wipe us out.

Immigration - studies have shown that those who hate immigration most are those who've been least affected by it.

Of course money is getting tighter for everyone, and it's a fairly solid theory that people get less charitable and more right wing as recessions take hold. The UK has a lot wrong with it, but damn, I'd rather live where I don't have to choose between living in pain or living in a house.

Note I'm not knocking the US here, just the anti healthcare lot, sure I can see people are concerned the Government won't run it well, but the alternative is a corporation that exists entirely for profit. In the end, despite all my cynicism, I still believe most people move into politics because they want to make things better, even when I disagree with their policies.