Used Games are simply another form of Piracy (THQ joins EA to stop the used games market)

[Maverick Siragusa]

i dont really care let them sort it out i dont by used games mainly because their in shity quality

 

[Keava]

It's not another form of Piracy.

Second hand marketing has been around for ages, and nobody has complained about them before. We have all been OK with second hand stores for clothing, buying used Television sets, flea markets, the works. But now, because video game publishers say it's hurting the industry, it's suddenly wrong?

Fuck no, it's not wrong.

If I'm tired of something I own, something I either can't get enjoyment out of, or something if it's something I want to replace with something better, should I simply have to throw that thing away? Why can't I make a profit and sell it to someone else who needs it? Am I a bad person for helping someone acquire something they want for an even cheaper price than at the store? No, I'm not. I'm a good person for giving someone that opportunity.

Again. I disagree.
Second hand clothes, toasters, cars dont have same value as a second hand game. Used clothes may be in some way damaged, have bleached colors, wont last for as long etc. There is a valid reason why those things are that much cheaper than brand new. All those things just arent as good as they would be if bought new from shop. You pay less for a flaw in performance/usability.

This isint the case with games tho. You still get the same game, with same features, same gameplay time. Nothing changes, the game wont become shorter or less playable because its used and the only person that benfits from such sale is the guy you bought it form. No the devs, not the publisher, noone in the actual game industry.

Now why is it worst than piracy? Because you spend money on the game but the game industry doesnt get this money. You just give it to some random guy .

 

[robobengt]

This could arguably be on the most stupid things I've read in a long time. If I purchase a copy of your game it's my fucking copy. If I no longer have a desire to keep that copy I am, and SHOULD be, entitled to sell it. Seriously, how can you not think it wrong to make it harder or impossible to sell your stuff? And no, there's no difference between used games and used clothing or used furniture. It's a physical product and if you sell your copy the company behind the original don't get to sell a copy of their thing to that same person. Probably. It's the way it is, the way it has been and the way I hope it will stay until the end of fucking time.

 

[jarowdowsky]

Surely it has always been a principle of our economic system that the ownership of a physical object entitles the owner to sell it to someone else. That's been part of common understanding of mankind long before even the invention of currency - which in its original form was a way to represent goods with a barter based system.

Inevitably that means that the producer of an original item is no longer profiting from it. That's an economic reality. Just because something damages the profit margin of a company doesn't mean that it's automatically unethical or immoral. Buying a brand new car means that it's possible to sell that car on to someone else. Does that mean that Ford will make less money, yes. Does that mean that it should be illegal to sell your car? I don't think so.

There has to be a balance between the need of a company to profit and the personal rights of a consumer. The suggestion of banning the sale of a physical object to someone else seems to me a step too far in favor of corporate greed and away from my personal rights.

If companies wish to end the physical production of games then that remains an option for them. Digital distribution offers that possibility. They also have choices around add-on content and downloads that encourage first-hand purchases rather than second-hand sales, but that's a decision they have to make. If they feel that the lost sales from no longer producing a physical game will outweigh their losses then go to it. But still selling a physical copy of a game and then trying to remove a basic right that has existed for 1,000s of years is insulting, ridiculous and against the basic principals upon which our economic reality is based.

 

[Flour]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

 

[Sneaklemming]

snip.

You're missing the point.

Used games are causing the same kind of damage as piracy is.

His point is, piracy means the game makers never get to see money.

When has this ever happened.

If a copy I buy in a store is legally mine, (like a bike), then I should be able to do with it as I will. Say for instance sell that copy to by friend at a lower price - correct?

Expect I play PC games, and it has been deemed that I do not legally own that copy, I simply have a licence for it. Once I install it in my PC -I cannot resell that copy.

But theres been this constant contradiction in games where console games are all your legally, but PC games are not.

 

[juliett_lima]

I agree with Hubilub - when you buy a second hand game it's usually a desperate (bit too strong a word but eh) move. Second-hand games can be scratched, drooled on, they can be missing manuals etc. - the only time I and people I know buy a second hand game is when it's been out reasonably long enough that a second hand copy is much cheaper than a brand new one, or if the game is out of print - and at that point the company have made all the money that they're going to make off the game, i.e. the main sales period just after release.

I would never have gotten my current copy of Theme Hospital if it weren't for second-hand games sales <3

oh and also - there is no legal precedent for banning the second-hand sales of games. It Would Not Float.

 

[thePyro_13]

It's not the same as piracy.

===Used==
Company A sells 100 units of Game B.

25 units of that game are sold again as used.

Company A has still been paid for 100 units of the game.

Only 100 units of the game are being played by consumers(not counting piracy).

===Pirated==
Company A sells 100 units of Game B.

25 units of that game are pirated.

Company A has still been paid for 100 units of the game.

125 units of the game are being played by consumers. An extra 25 people are playing the game without any additional profit for the devs.

==========

This is just a way for publishers to squeeze more money out of the industry. Re-selling games is no different from re-selling any other physical commodity(in the case of software what is really being resold is the licence to use the software, but that's just semantics). And really should not be restricted in this manor.

 

[Valdsator]

The different thing about piracy and buying used games is that piracy is duplicates of a copy being obtained for free, which is illegal. But, buying used games involves 1 copy that was bought legally, and is now being shared (through trading, buying used). EA or who ever is the publisher/developer should not be getting money for that 1 copy over and over again.

 

[Zacharine]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

A car manufacturer manufactures one car.

It goes to a taxi driver, who drives people around in it for a year.

It then gets sold to a family of 4.

Three years later, a college kid buys it out to sqeeze out the last few dozen k miles out from it.

One car. Manufacturer got paid once. The store got paid once.

Several people used it.

Explain to me how this is car piracy.

 

[dekkarax]

Most of the money from used games gos to game retailers, if there were no used games, the probably would be less game shops around, meaning less people would be able to buy games, which would hurt game publishers and developers.

 

[Zacharine]

Expect I play PC games, and it has been deemed that I do not legally own that copy,

Deemed by whom and where? Link to the actual law or addendum to law or court ruling would be nice.

 

[Sneaklemming]

If I purchase a copy of your game it's my fucking copy.

Surely it has always been a principle of our economic system that the ownership of a physical object entitles the owner to sell it to someone else.

125 units of the game are being played by consumers. An extra 25 people are playing the game without any additional profit for the devs.

You people are forgetting PC games and MMOs. -because of the legal nonsense got to do with piracy, when you buy a game it is not yours fully and regardless of weather of not you create more copies two things apply.

1) I cannot resell my copy of PC game X, because it is piracy
2) Even if I do create additional copies, then 125 have still played the game according to Pyros model

 

[Sneaklemming]

Expect I play PC games, and it has been deemed that I do not legally own that copy,

Deemed by whom and where? Link to the actual law or addendum to law or court ruling would be nice.

You'll have to fish around legal stuff for that, but I can show you easier.

Go buy TF2 on steam and play it for a while. Come back to me when you've legally sold your copy to a friend.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

A car manufacturer manufactures one car.

It goes to a taxi driver, who drives people around in it for a year.

It then gets sold to a family of 4.

Three years later, a college kid buys it out to sqeeze out the last few dozen k miles out from it.

One car. Manufacturer got paid once. The store got paid once.

Several people used it.

Explain to me how this is car piracy.

I'm not saying it is. But applied to games, legal people and publishers believe that it is.

 

[Uncreation]

I am sick and tired of seeing threads like these. I cannot believe to what levels game companies have stooped to. And i cannot believe there are people out there who defend ideas as ridiculous as: "Used Games are simply another form of Piracy".

It is the right of every customer to sell a product that they have paid for, and own. Second hand sale is a common thing to all industries. And no, i don't believe the games industry is that different as to require preferential treatment. That is complete BS in my opinion.

 

[Zacharine]

Expect I play PC games, and it has been deemed that I do not legally own that copy,

Deemed by whom and where? Link to the actual law or addendum to law or court ruling would be nice.

You'll have to fish around legal stuff for that, but I can show you easier.

Go buy TF2 on steam and play it for a while. Come back to me when you've legally sold your copy to a friend.

And that is why I always go for the physical copy. Because digital distribution offers only disadvantages to me.

Go buy a copy of TF2 from the nearest store, come back to me when you have been arrested for trying to sell that DVD to a friend.

 

[Muraz]

It makes you wonder what's going to happen as we move towards a full digital distribution market, cutting out game retailers altogether. Second hand games won't exist at all, should the physical disk be removed from the equasion ... and remember that legally you don't own any game you buy over a digital distribution network such as Steam.

 

[Zacharine]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

A car manufacturer manufactures one car.

It goes to a taxi driver, who drives people around in it for a year.

It then gets sold to a family of 4.

Three years later, a college kid buys it out to sqeeze out the last few dozen k miles out from it.

One car. Manufacturer got paid once. The store got paid once.

Several people used it.

Explain to me how this is car piracy.

I'm not saying it is. But applied to games, legal people and publishers believe that it is.

Then please explain to me, from the standpoint of patent law, ownership law and intellectual protection laws, how video game disks differ from cars.

Because without that difference, legally it doesn't matter, no matter what corporate execs and representatives might think. Or wish. Unless they can show a reason for why the video game industry should be singled out from all manufacturing industries, they can only wring their hands and watch as those lost potential profits never make it to the company coffer.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Expect I play PC games, and it has been deemed that I do not legally own that copy,

Deemed by whom and where? Link to the actual law or addendum to law or court ruling would be nice.

You'll have to fish around legal stuff for that, but I can show you easier.

Go buy TF2 on steam and play it for a while. Come back to me when you've legally sold your copy to a friend.

And that is why I always go for the physical copy. Because digital distribution offers only disadvantages to me.

Go buy a copy of TF2 from the nearest store, come back to me when you have been arrested for trying to sell that DVD to a friend.

You can give him the DVD, but it wont do much good. The physical copies of TF2 are all about the serial key. Once it's installed, it gone - poof, and you cant trade it again.

If I sell it to my friend, and he tries to install it will ask him for that key - when he doesn't have it, his only option will be to pirate it.

Physical copies have nothing to do with this. It's about property ownership.