Used Games are simply another form of Piracy (THQ joins EA to stop the used games market)

[MrNickster]

If EA's anti-reselling thing goes through, you won't be able to bring your new game round to your friends house to show him or lend it to him without some contrived penny-pinching bullshit lock out system stopping him from enjoying it.

Buying games over ebay would also take a blow-What if the game you want to buy has stopped being manufactured, but the servers are still running and you want to play it-Oh No, you can't because of some stupid arbitrary lock out.

The companies who make these game rake in millions every year. They can survive having a few games sold second hand.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Video game publishers simply are whining about it, because they think potential proit should equal real profit, and it hasn't apparently hit them yet that there are no guarantees and that they are not any different

Thats the problem here. It's also why they quote these crazy numbers of sales lost to piracy.

Publishes look at potential lost sales, and right next to piracy is used games.

I'm not saying that trading second hand games is piracy, but that the effect on the industry is the same.

There is however a much greater argument for saying that used game sales are lost sales.

That there is. However, lost sales are only the difference between whatever predicted potential profit, and the real profit, and is thus largely theoretical: you can count potential sales in so many different ways, it isn't really a meaningful financial number. Companies just like to throw it around because most peolple do not realize this inherent dependability the number has on the one who does the counting.

Second-hand sales however is a part of the fundamental nature of private ownership and western legal system. That the companies don't like it is nothing new, what is new is the brazen boldness that video game publishers moan and whine about it.

So why then is it illegal for me to resell my PC games???

 

[Zacharine]

Video game publishers simply are whining about it, because they think potential proit should equal real profit, and it hasn't apparently hit them yet that there are no guarantees and that they are not any different

Thats the problem here. It's also why they quote these crazy numbers of sales lost to piracy.

Publishes look at potential lost sales, and right next to piracy is used games.

I'm not saying that trading second hand games is piracy, but that the effect on the industry is the same.

There is however a much greater argument for saying that used game sales are lost sales.

That there is. However, lost sales are only the difference between whatever predicted potential profit, and the real profit, and is thus largely theoretical: you can count potential sales in so many different ways, it isn't really a meaningful financial number. Companies just like to throw it around because most peolple do not realize this inherent dependability the number has on the one who does the counting.

Second-hand sales however is a part of the fundamental nature of private ownership and western legal system. That the companies don't like it is nothing new, what is new is the brazen boldness that video game publishers moan and whine about it.

So why then is it illegal for me to resell my PC games???

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

EDIT: perhaps I should clarify this. Just a minute.

Nowhere is it illegal to sell the copy; developers simply like to make it as hard as possible. It is reaching the point where a ground for lawsuit against EA for example, regarding the physical copies of games they sell and activation methods on them, is getting bigger and bigger.

If the companies weren't that big (and mostly based in the US and/or UK), they would have been sued already.

Because as far as I understand it, the methods companies are using to restrict playability of games are reaching the point of illegality from the viewpoint of ownership law - it is a bit of a muddy ground because digital ownership laws are in their infancy.

But there is no law that says it is illegal for you to take that TF2 or DoW II DVD and sell it to someone else. Companies simply have taken methods to make that as difficult as possible.

 

[Projo]

In both piracy and used game, someone pays for the original. In piracy, that single game can be copied hundreds of times, and a large sum of people could end up playing it for free. Used games, there's a still a one player per game ratio. If anything, this is stealing money from the players, because they're making more money off a single game.

What about if you give a game to a friend? Are you suddenly a thief?

EA is being a greedy *****, and I honestly hope this sparks some form of retaliation.

 

[Nimbus]

You're missing the point.

Used games are causing the same kind of damage as piracy is.

Also comparing clothes to video-game piracy is like apples and oranges - hell even comparing film and music piracy to video game piracy is like apples and oranges...

Maybe, but it is damage we are allowed to cause. It is our god-damned right to sell things we have bought. People NOT spending every last cent of their money on games also hurts the industry, but it is ALLOWED because it would be fucking insanity to not allow it!

EDIT: Before people mention steam (et al...) to me, you sign away your right to resale when you sign up for digital distribution. You do NOT do so when you buy retail. Simple as that. You don't like it? Don't buy digital.

 

[cicaba]

If I buy a game, and it's deemed to not be mine fully, then there's something fucking wrong with the games industry!

No lol
You don't have to agree to buy it ^^ If you want to buy it how you would call "fully" you can contact them I s'pose. Might be a tad more than your usual £30 or whatever though. ^^

 

[DoW Lowen]

Digital distribution is killing retail. I almost never hear anyone complain about that. I'm not saying that's it wrong for either side, it's just that if you are competing in a free market, you have to be prepared to be jilted.

 

[Sneaklemming]

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

umm *shrugs*?

I've no idea man... but if I install my game and then go to the store afterward and ask to trade it in (or even to get my money back) I can't - and they have no consumer obligation to let me return my game, even if it's been 2 hours. Once I open it, they will not let me return it.

This is why they say "are you sure you computer can run this game" because it if cant? Tough.

And people wonder why people piracy games....

 

[RanD00M]

snip

I agree with this.It's like selling a used car.The car maker still got some money from the original sale.And the person that sold the car used sold it for a lower price then he payed the car company,so the car company has nothing to complain about.

mmm yes, but the sale of the used car meant that the buyer didn't buy that car from the original retailer - if the second hand dealer hadn't sold him the 2nd hand car, he would have bought the same car from the retailer, at a profit to the original company.

Not necessarily.If the second hand dealer wouldn't had sold him the car,then the buyer would most likely just go to another second hand dealer.And then the car company still wouldn't make any money.And if selling used cars would be illegal,more and more people would just be using public transports or bicycle or whatever.

 

[Zacharine]

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

umm *shrugs*?

I've no idea man... but if I install my game and then go to the store afterward and ask to trade it in (or even to get my money back) I can't - and they have no consumer obligation to let me return my game, even if it's been 2 hours. Once I open it, they will not let me return it.

This is why they say "are you sure you computer can run this game" because it if cant? Though.

And people wonder why people piracy games....

read the EDIt to my previous post.

Also, returning a product for a returned monetary compensation, and reselling it to a third party are two entirely different things.

 

[Nimbus]

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

umm *shrugs*?

I've no idea man... but if I install my game and then go to the store afterward and ask to trade it in (or even to get my money back) I can't - and they have no consumer obligation to let me return my game, even if it's been 2 hours. Once I open it, they will not let me return it.

This is why they say "are you sure you computer can run this game" because it if cant? Though.

And people wonder why people piracy games....

You forget that even if they LET you return unopened items, they still have no obligation to do so unless the item is defective (i.e. unfit for purpose). I'm pretty sure they don't allow you to return open games is to prevent the 'ol pirate-'n'-return.

 

[Sneaklemming]

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

umm *shrugs*?

I've no idea man... but if I install my game and then go to the store afterward and ask to trade it in (or even to get my money back) I can't - and they have no consumer obligation to let me return my game, even if it's been 2 hours. Once I open it, they will not let me return it.

This is why they say "are you sure you computer can run this game" because it if cant? Though.

And people wonder why people piracy games....

You forget that even if they LET you return unopened items, they still have no obligation to do so unless the item is defective (i.e. unfit for purpose). I'm pretty sure they don't allow you to return open games is to prevent the 'ol pirate-'n'-return.

I know this differs from region to region - but believe that you can return goods during a certain time period... its EU consumer rights

 

[StriderShinryu]

I suppose I can see the correlation, but it's really a case of numbers. In your opinion, it may not make it better but it's not really the same.

1 store sold copy of a game put onto the used market may have 3 or 4 other users, none of whom directly payed the company for the game. These users who put the game back into the used market may also be using the credit for trading in their game to buy a new game.

1 store sold copy of a game that's put into the piracy system may have millions of other users, none of whom payed the company for the game.

 

[Curious Georgie]

That's the thing: it isn't.

If you disagree, show me where it has been made illegal. Where is the court ruling, where is the statement of law?

umm *shrugs*?

I've no idea man... but if I install my game and then go to the store afterward and ask to trade it in (or even to get my money back) I can't - and they have no consumer obligation to let me return my game, even if it's been 2 hours. Once I open it, they will not let me return it.

This is why they say "are you sure you computer can run this game" because it if cant? Though.

And people wonder why people piracy games....

You forget that even if they LET you return unopened items, they still have no obligation to do so unless the item is defective (i.e. unfit for purpose). I'm pretty sure they don't allow you to return open games is to prevent the 'ol pirate-'n'-return.

I know this differs from region to region - but believe that you can return goods during a certain time period... its EU consumer rights

If they don't work. 2 week policy for pc games out of the back of my head. However, if you've opened the box and broken the seals you can no longer return it unless it's defective.

 

[Cavouku]

Well, I don't know about console games, but for some computer games it's not too hard.

I bought the Orange Box a long time ago, and I couldn't use it on my tiny netbook. My friend wanted it, and since it was his birthday, sure. I can't use it.

Of course it had the code, but we just changed the email, password and username. Simple. The games should let you do those things because what if you wanted to play it on another person's computer? If you enter the information you're good. Change the information- what if your email gets hacked? Password gets hacked? Fix'd. Username I just think was an aesthetic choice change, I don't know.

If you wanted to play your game on someone else's console, it shouldn't be any different. So this security system is just tedious. Though, knowing them, my bet is you could only play it on your own console, right? The console it was registered on?

 

[Nimbus]

I know this differs from region to region - but believe that you can return goods during a certain time period... its EU consumer rights

Doubtful. I'm pretty sure the consumer law chapter in my textbook would have mentioned it, considering I live in the EU. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

It's not another form of Piracy.

Second hand marketing has been around for ages, and nobody has complained about them before. We have all been OK with second hand stores for clothing, buying used Television sets, flea markets, the works. But now, because video game publishers say it's hurting the industry, it's suddenly wrong?

Fuck no, it's not wrong.

If I'm tired of something I own, something I either can't get enjoyment out of, or something if it's something I want to replace with something better, should I simply have to throw that thing away? Why can't I make a profit and sell it to someone else who needs it? Am I a bad person for helping someone acquire something they want for an even cheaper price than at the store? No, I'm not. I'm a good person for giving someone that opportunity.

Again. I disagree.
Second hand clothes, toasters, cars dont have same value as a second hand game. Used clothes may be in some way damaged, have bleached colors, wont last for as long etc. There is a valid reason why those things are that much cheaper than brand new. All those things just arent as good as they would be if bought new from shop. You pay less for a flaw in performance/usability.

This isint the case with games tho. You still get the same game, with same features, same gameplay time. Nothing changes, the game wont become shorter or less playable because its used and the only person that benfits from such sale is the guy you bought it form. No the devs, not the publisher, noone in the actual game industry.

Now why is it worst than piracy? Because you spend money on the game but the game industry doesnt get this money. You just give it to some random guy .

Then try books. Unless they are very damaged due to owner stupidity they stay the same (and might actually gain in price) just like games.
And yet it is not considered stealing or piracy to buy a used book.
Like your example with the developers not getting their money from a second hand sale, so it is for the author of a book but it is still legal to sell it on.

 

[bloob]

It's not another form of Piracy.

Second hand marketing has been around for ages, and nobody has complained about them before. We have all been OK with second hand stores for clothing, buying used Television sets, flea markets, the works. But now, because video game publishers say it's hurting the industry, it's suddenly wrong?

Fuck no, it's not wrong.

If I'm tired of something I own, something I either can't get enjoyment out of, or something if it's something I want to replace with something better, should I simply have to throw that thing away? Why can't I make a profit and sell it to someone else who needs it? Am I a bad person for helping someone acquire something they want for an even cheaper price than at the store? No, I'm not. I'm a good person for giving someone that opportunity.

Again. I disagree.
Second hand clothes, toasters, cars dont have same value as a second hand game. Used clothes may be in some way damaged, have bleached colors, wont last for as long etc. There is a valid reason why those things are that much cheaper than brand new. All those things just arent as good as they would be if bought new from shop. You pay less for a flaw in performance/usability.

This isint the case with games tho. You still get the same game, with same features, same gameplay time. Nothing changes, the game wont become shorter or less playable because its used and the only person that benfits from such sale is the guy you bought it form. No the devs, not the publisher, noone in the actual game industry.

Now why is it worst than piracy? Because you spend money on the game but the game industry doesnt get this money. You just give it to some random guy .

But EA are now giving extra's if you buy it new so in effect you do get less if you buy second hand, so by doing this they are undermining their own arguement. Personaly i think EA are doing nothing wrong with that tactic. At least that is lawful unlike some of the more dubious online activation where u need to be connected to the internet to play the game