Used Games are simply another form of Piracy (THQ joins EA to stop the used games market)

[joshthor]

i agree with the o.p. however, it would be very difficult to get rid of the used game market - as a pc gamer one really nice thing about consoles is the ability to borrow your freinds games. if they put a CD lock on a specific xbox live account or something, its impossible, and you are much less likely to buy the game.

thats why i support EA's project 10 dollar - it doesnt hurt the used game buyer and it allows the developer to make some money off of thier game.

 

[Maze1125]

Because that particular copy has become the property of the buyer when it left the store.

Except, it hasn't.

If the game became entirely the property of the buyer when it left the store then piracy couldn't be illegal.

I could go home with the game I own, to the PC I own and use that PC to make 500 copies of the game that I own onto discs that I own.
And, as I owned everything involved their production, those 500 copies of the game would be entirely my property. I could then resell those 500 copies can make a tidy profit. Which would be entirely legal as I would entirely own everything I was selling.

But that is not legal. Why? Because when I went to the store and bought that game, I did not buy the rights to copy or distribute the data on that disc, all I bought were the rights to use that data, and I do not have the right to resell those rights.

And, you're right, publishers have never won a case for stopping the standard resale of games, and likely never will. But that doesn't mean you suddenly own the game itself, just that the courts like to protect laypeople.

And, equally, there has never been a court case stopping publishers from putting their own protection against second-hand sales with-in the data itself and, as before, they likely never will be stopped because, even though courts like to protect laypeople, the publishers do still own the data and can do what they want with it.

If you don't like it, you're left with basically three choices:
1) Try and win that case to stop them.
2) Boycott them. (Something everyone loves doing.)
3) Deal with the changing times and buy the game anyway.

 

[Sev72]

someone already paid for said game.

they shouldn't care.

The same logic can be applied for piracy. It hurts arguably hurts the industry more, because it's actual consumers, not bored kids with a torrent client, who are getting the games.

But in order to sell a used game I have to give that game up so I no longer have it. This problem is true in just about every industry you could think of though. i.e. Automotive manufacturers lose a lot more money to people buying and selling used vehicles then people stealing them.

 

[SyphonX]

Fuck EA. I'm tired of them. I didn't like their games when I played Sega, and I don't like them now. Every single game they get their claws into is completely predictable and not original. Most of the time, an independent studio or well-known quality studio develops the game, then EA buys them out and places their bullshit EA Games logo on it. Problem is, that's all they do, and the original developers are gone, and EA simply lets the license sink into the abyss. They ruin more franchises then any other company on the planet.

They have some of the most awful consumer relations I've ever seen, and they could care less because they think we, the consumer, owe them, not the other way around. They also treat their employees like dog shit and don't allow them to become too independent or skilled, lest they leave their EA position prematurely and develop a game with someone else that challenges EA's money-making machine.

Fuck EA, fuck anyone who disagrees.

 

[irrelevantnugget]

I buy second hand games because they're not being sold new anymore.

Try finding a brand new copy of Theme Hospital or Shadow of the Colossus these days.

It's not a loss to devs, because they're not selling it anymore in the first place. Publisher's argument is of course then: "Well then just buy one of our newer games".
My reply?
NO. I want to play Game X, so don't tell me to play game Y instead.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

They hate both copying and used game sales but only normally moralise and rant about home copying in public. It's almost like they love money and power and just say what they think they can get away with and change what laws they can make a deal on that will get them what they want. That goes completely against human nature though so it can't be true.

 

[bloob]

If I buy a game, and it's deemed to not be mine fully, then there's something fucking wrong with the games industry!

No lol
You don't have to agree to buy it ^^ If you want to buy it how you would call "fully" you can contact them I s'pose. Might be a tad more than your usual £30 or whatever though. ^^

When I buy a game, an unspoken agreement between me and the publisher/retailer takers place. I pay them money, I get access to all portions of the game on that disc. The disc is now my property, and barring making copies, I am free to do what I want with the disc. Including selling it. I paid for all the content on the disc, I should be allowed to sell that disc, all content included, to someone else. Which is why Project $10 so fucking annoys me.

I have really lost all sympathy for game publishers. The logic that drives them is just too stupid to comprehend.

"Oh, hey, we ripped a couple of missions out of the game, and we'd like to sell them back to you. What do you mean that's extortion? You only paid for the content on the disc, this stuff is extra, so we can charge however much we like for it. That's capitalism."

"Oh, hey, we had a similar idea to the guys above, except we simply locked up a load of content on the disc, and you'll have to pay us to access it. What do you mean that's daylight robbery. You only paid to access the parts of the game we allowed you to. That locked up stuff will cost extra. That's capitalism."

"Oh, hey, we're not like the above guys. We're just going to lock your game to your PC, and dictate to you how, when and where you can install it and play it. What do you mean you own the game? No, technically, we still own it, we're just letting you play it for now. That's capitalism."

"Oh, shit, we're losing money because people are selling the games they bought off us. We need to find a way to make money from those sales. What do you mean that's part of capitalism? We're a big games publisher, we can make money however we want! Capitalism is supposed to be our *****, not yours! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!"

Considering that game publishers have been playing the capitalism card more than any other entertainment company makes it supremely ironic that they, alone in all entertainment, can't handle the idea of a second-hand market, an integral part of the economy since, well, the economy began.

As I said before, fuck 'em.

When it gets to the point that they are charging too much for what they are offering people will stop buying it, until then can u blame them? wouldn't you try to get as much money for your product as you could? that is capitalism

 

[Delusibeta]

Selling on your old books is piracy, because the author and publisher won't get a cut? Pravately selling a car is piracy, because the manufacturer doesn't get paid? No.

The difference between "piracy" and "selling" is that the seller loses the object in the case of "selling", but still has the object in the case of "piracy". As far as I'm aware, the video game industry (and perhaps the film industry) is the only industries trying to actively block resale.

 

[SyphonX]

I buy second hand games because they're not being sold new anymore.

Try finding a brand new copy of Theme Hospital or Shadow of the Colossus these days.

Pretty much. Even very popular games are hard to come by, still wrapped in plastic. Silent Hill series for instance. Good luck trying to buy a new copy of Silent Hill 1-3 that isn't well over 80-100 dollars.

Solution, you buy used. Not to mention, there are only so many years that can pass by before you're legally allowed to download and emulate out-of-the-market games. I'm pretty sure Playstation 1 games are just about up to the line, if they aren't already.

 

[jono793]

There is a concern, in the UK at least, about how this is going to impact on online retailers like Amazon and Ebay. Under British consumer law, an online retailer is obliged to accept returns and give a full refund within 7 working days, with no reason being given! Under the current regime, it would be possible for someone to return a duff game that couldn't be played on any other sytem.

For example, I purchase Fifa 2011 from Amazon, After two days my brain remembers that I dislike football games, and return it to Amazon. Amazon are obliged to give me a full refund, but because I registered the produt code, they are now stuck with a duff game that they can't sell. Either they refuse to accept the return, at which point I take them to court and almost certainly win, or they sue EA for the losses incurred by their code. Neither is an ideal situation!

 

[Zacharine]

Because that particular copy has become the property of the buyer when it left the store.

Except, it hasn't.

If the game became entirely the property of the buyer when it left the store then piracy couldn't be illegal.

Reading comprehension... You should try it.

" that particular copy "

I spoke nothing of manufacturing licenses or intellectual properties. I spoke of the particular CD/DVD bought with the transaction, as well as the single set of data (that you do not have the right to copy or modify) that was added to it during the manufacturing process.

Since most of your end post I either agree with, or it was based on faulty comprehension of what I actually said, I shall leave it alone.

 

[Maze1125]

Try finding a brand new copy of Theme Hospital or Shadow of the Colossus these days.

I bought a new copy of Theme Hospital just a few months ago, from the budget publisher Sold Out.

 

[DazBurger]

It's not another form of Piracy.

Second hand marketing has been around for ages, and nobody has complained about them before. We have all been OK with second hand stores for clothing, buying used Television sets, flea markets, the works. But now, because video game publishers say it's hurting the industry, it's suddenly wrong?

Fuck no, it's not wrong.

You're missing the point.

Used games are causing the same kind of damage as piracy is.

Also comparing clothes to video-game piracy is like apples and oranges - hell even comparing film and music piracy to video game piracy is like apples and oranges...

I cant really see how.
Film, music, videogames and clothing brands all earn money by you buying their products.
If someone buys something used, the compagny loses a sale... At least in their eyes.

So a sale is a sale, not an orange nor an apple.

 

[Tenky]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

A car manufacturer manufactures one car.

It goes to a taxi driver, who drives people around in it for a year.

It then gets sold to a family of 4.

Three years later, a college kid buys it out to sqeeze out the last few dozen k miles out from it.

One car. Manufacturer got paid once. The store got paid once.

Several people used it.

Explain to me how this is car piracy.

Oh actually... the people collecting the fees for the owner transfer are the automotive departments! Or at least here it's how it is.

When they transfer ownership to you, you have to pay the department them whatever your car is worth, and within that amount some goes back to the manufacturer or in some way gets invested back in the company at least.

Now if you buy a PC game... you buy a "liscence to play"... i know no one ever reads the wall of text of an agreement... but this liscence is not transferable. You agreed to it when you installed by something that is held up as a contract before courts. It's the law, period. That grey zone has been made black and white over 20 years ago with all software.

Consoles are selling software... they're just making it more like the PC in regards to their rights, and yes they're probably trying to shut down leech markets like gamestop.

 

[Curious Georgie]

Because that particular copy has become the property of the buyer when it left the store.

Except, it hasn't.

If the game became entirely the property of the buyer when it left the store then piracy couldn't be illegal.

I could go home with the game I own, to the PC I own and use that PC to make 500 copies of the game that I own onto discs that I own.
And, as I owned everything involved their production, those 500 copies of the game would be entirely my property. I could then resell those 500 copies can make a tidy profit. Which would be entirely legal as I would entirely own everything I was selling.

But that is not legal. Why? Because when I went to the store and bought that game, I did not buy the rights to copy or distribute the data on that disc, all I bought were the rights to use that data, and I do not have the right to resell those rights.

And, you're right, publishers have never won a case for stopping the standard resale of games, and likely never will. But that doesn't mean you suddenly own the game itself, just that the courts like to protect laypeople.

And, equally, there has never been a court case stopping publishers from putting their own protection against second-hand sales with-in the data itself and, as before, they likely never will be stopped because, even though courts like to protect laypeople, the publishers do still own the data and can do what they want with it.

If you don't like it, you're left with basically three choices:
1) Try and win that case to stop them.
2) Boycott them. (Something everyone loves doing.)
3) Deal with the changing times and buy the game anyway.

No, you're wrong. If that still has to be explained after all the posts on here, please get yourself checked.

 

[Antari]

I'm sick and tired of seeing stories like this. If they are willing to make a decision that stupid, do you really have to follow it up by writing up a story on it?

 

[icaritos]

Geez people think for a second.

Selling copies of something you bough is illegal, as you are basically marketing a product that was not created by said company but with their IP and intellectual property.

Selling a product that you bough from a company, that is the ORIGINAL copy is perfectly legal as once you buy it, it is your decision on what to do with it. Just look at a car, there are dealers that sell only used cars, they are not violating any laws as the consumers decided to sell them.

Im not arguing whether used games are good or bad for the industry, but you have to be pretty stupid to not realize that any attempt to stop legal buyers from doing so is a clear violation of your own rights as a consumer.

Really if car company's tried to stop their buyers from reselling their cars the entire nation would have a fit. Its only in the videogame industry that we have freaking paying (insert bannable word here)consumers trying to defend the industry attempts at robbing you from your rights. I Think the problem is this industry has far too many rich little mama boys, for which life has been a wonderful joy ride that dont understand the true value of money and how important consumer rights are for people.

 

[Zacharine]

Now if you buy a PC game... you buy a "liscence to play"... i know no one ever reads the wall of text of an agreement... but this liscence is not transferable.

Straight from Dawn Of War II EULA:

"You may: (i) use the Software on any supported
computer configuration and/or console platform, provided the Software is
used on only one (1) such computer; and (ii) permanently transfer the
Software on any supported computer configuration only and its
documentation to another user provided You retain no copies and the
recipient agrees to the terms of this Agreement. You may not transfer,
distribute, rent, sub-license, or lease the Software or documentation,
except as provided herein; or alter, modify, or adapt the Product or
documentation, or any portions thereof. "

EDIT: sorry, left our a critical sentence from the above, fixed.