Valve bans Game Developer from Steamworks for pointing out a vulnerability

[Vegosiux]

You're right. Such stuff shouldn't happen. People should know better than to exploit security systems just to prove a point. The Euro Truck dev(and your bank guy) really shouldn't have pulled that.

It's like disabling a house's alarm system and vandalizing it "just" to show the owner that you and possibly someone else could. I guess I'll go get a better alarm then but it's still illegal and you're still going down.

I'd be on board with you two if it was a case of the guy vandalizing your house before actually warning you about that alarm system. And it's also the guy who can potentially get harmed by you having a shoddy alarm system, since he's one of your associates and does business in your house.

But as it is, I say, you should have listened when he warned you and looked into it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

You're right. Such stuff shouldn't happen. People should know better than to exploit security systems just to prove a point. The Euro Truck dev(and your bank guy) really shouldn't have pulled that.

It's like disabling a house's alarm system and vandalizing it "just" to show the owner that you and possibly someone else could. I guess I'll go get a better alarm then but it's still illegal and you're still going down.

I'd be on board with you two if it was a case of the guy vandalizing your house before actually warning you about that alarm system. And it's also the guy who can potentially get harmed by you having a shoddy alarm system, since he's one of your associates and does business in your house.

But as it is, I say, you should have listened when he warned you and looked into it.

Yes, Valve could've used the advice. They should have listened. But nothing gives that person the right to vandalize property that is not his own, no matter what kind of self-righteousness he thought he had. He can consider himself lucky that he only got banned and apparently Valve isn't taking legal action.

 

[Charli]

If Blizzard takes too long to respond to my well worded ticket on a flaw in their bot catching system.

I do NOT then go out and start using that exploit and blast them on the internet to cheaply refined 'lol' music.
Not to mention filming it.

That's the very definition of a child throwing a tantrum for attention.

Yes Valve should have listened, and listened quicker. But...if someone isn't willing to take your good advice, you take the high road and move on. It isn't your problem any longer.

 

[Vegosiux]

Yes, Valve could've used the advice. They should have listened. But nothing gives that person the right to vandalize property that is not his own, no matter what kind of self-righteousness he thought he had. He can consider himself lucky that he only got banned and apparently Valve isn't taking legal action.

And legally, Valve is in the right, I don't deny that for a second. All I'm doing is calling them dumb for not acting on it before this happened.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

I can't really saying I blame the guy. He tried to alert them to the vulnerability the proper way, but got no response, so he decided to try force them into action. At least he got them to do something about it before someone with actual malicious intent discovered the vulnerability and did some damage. They should have listened to him in the first place and then he wouldn't have had to do what he did. If anything they should be thanking him for alerting them to the vulnerability in the first place, before someone actually did some damage, not banning him.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Valve/Steam ignoring perfectly reasonable requests and demands? I'm nowhere near surprised, is this a good time to mention how Steam's customer service is so poor it's technically illegal in the UK?

Remember when Steam was heralded as the "saviour of PC gaming?" Yeah me neither. Valve has used up all of their goodwill over the last two year as far as i'm concerned.

Also that Harlem Shake example sounds hilarious, +1 interwebz to that guy. Not like Steam will reverse the ban though, that would be far too reasonable of them, listening to their community even. Dangerous thinking.

Remember when Steam was heralded as the "saviour of PC gaming?" Yeah me neither. Valve has used up all of their goodwill over the last two year as far as i'm concerned.

Two Years? They've been like this for the longest time, hell they're responsible for almost every anti-consumer precadent in gaming. They were just good at PR.

wow, just wow

lets conviently forget euro truck simulator 2 is a reasonable success thanks to steam and it got into steam in the first place thanks to greenlight, a system that allows users to vote for games to be added to steam, man is almost as if *gasp* Valve DOES listen to its community!, but yeah, Valve is evil

also, The Wykydtron, let me refresh your memory

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-28-wasteland-2s-brian-fargo-valve-the-saviour-of-the-pc

1 and a half months ago, that was the last time

 

[otakon17]

They didn't ban him for "pointing out a vulnerability", they banned him for hacking the motherfucking system.

While true, it's still counterproductive. This guy had no malicious intent from what it looks like. Hope in this year of his suspension they contact him and work with him to resolve the vulnerability, at least, if the ban doesn't get reversed.

It's like disabling a house's alarm system and vandalizing it "just" to show the owner that you and possibly someone else could. I guess I'll go get a better alarm then but it's still illegal and you're still going down.

You ever see "It Takes A Thief"? Those guys tore up houses to show people just how vulnerable their places were. This is the same scenario, except that he told them repeatedly about it, they did nothing then did something innocuous to prove that there was a fault before it could actually be taken advantage of. No one asked him to do this he did it to it wouldn't get out of hand. The guy doesn't deserve to be banned, he should be commended for finding it before it got out of hand and word spread of the fault to those with less altruistic natures.

 

[Vivi22]

"Man, Sony were doucebags for suing that guy for exploiting their security with the PS3, they deserve everything they get!"

You do realize that banning someone from Steam isn't on nearly the same level as suing someone right?

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

They didn't ban him for "pointing out a vulnerability", they banned him for hacking the motherfucking system.

While true, it's still counterproductive. This guy had no malicious intent from what it looks like. Hope in this year of his suspension they contact him and work with him to resolve the vulnerability, at least, if the ban doesn't get reversed.

It's like disabling a house's alarm system and vandalizing it "just" to show the owner that you and possibly someone else could. I guess I'll go get a better alarm then but it's still illegal and you're still going down.

You ever see "It Takes A Thief"? Those guys tore up houses to show people just how vulnerable their places were. This is the same scenario, except that he told them repeatedly about it, they did nothing then did something innocuous to prove that there was a fault before it could actually be taken advantage of. No one asked him to do this he did it to it wouldn't get out of hand. The guy doesn't deserve to be banned, he should be commended for finding it before it got out of hand and word spread of the fault to those with less altruistic natures.

so he can freely break the rules and receive no consequences because he did it for "the greater good"? was this really HIS LAST DEPERATE MEANSURE? i think there were other options, contacting more devs and together try to contact valve

his game is played by almost 5k people, maybe he could make an announcement there

http://steamcharts.com/app/227300

writing some article for a gaming blog like kotaku or something like that

why was breaking the rules plan B?

2 wrongs dont make a right, just because valve doesnt listen you dont have to break the rules

 

[Ninjamedic]

You do realize that banning someone from Steam isn't on nearly the same level as suing someone right?

Well when Steam is their main source of income, still pretty bad. Also, Valve are being defended for this for the same reasone sony used.

wow, just wow

lets conviently forget euro truck simulator 2 is a reasonable success thanks to steam and it got into steam in the first place thanks to greenlight, a system that allows users to vote for games to be added to steam, man is almost as if *gasp* Valve DOES listen to its community!, but yeah, Valve is evil

This is the internet son, you know you can't have a discussion without hyperbole.

I don't see them as "evil", however I see them as no different in terms of ethics and morality then any other large Games company. You can say what you want about sales or whatever Newell says, but it's still a business, everything they do is done with the consideration of the bottom line. Greenlight has been broken for the longest time yet Valve have dismissed the criticism directed at it. The lack of QA has been soemthing brought many times and ingored.

 

[Jennacide]

To all the people using this as an excuse to bash on Valve/Steam, remember that "contacting Valve" about the vunerability was literally just he tweeted about it once, and sent them an email. A company that likely gets hundreds of thousands of emails a week.

 

[Ninjamedic]

To all the people using this as an excuse to bash on Valve/Steam, remember that "contacting Valve" about the vunerability was literally just he tweeted about it once, and sent them an email. A company that likely gets hundreds of thousands of emails a week.

In fairness, I'm just pointing out the double standard possibly at play here.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

You do realize that banning someone from Steam isn't on nearly the same level as suing someone right?

Well when Steam is their main source of income, still pretty bad. Also, Valve are being defended for this for the same reasone sony used.

wow, just wow

lets conviently forget euro truck simulator 2 is a reasonable success thanks to steam and it got into steam in the first place thanks to greenlight, a system that allows users to vote for games to be added to steam, man is almost as if *gasp* Valve DOES listen to its community!, but yeah, Valve is evil

This is the internet son, you know you can't have a discussion without hyperbole.

I don't see them as "evil", however I see them as no different in terms of ethics and morality then any other large Games company. You can say what you want about sales or whatever Newell says, but it's still a business, everything they do is done with the consideration of the bottom line. Greenlight has been broken for the longest time yet Valve have dismissed the criticism directed at it. The lack of QA has been soemthing brought many times and ingored.

im not sure its being ignored, but QA issues are fairly recent, it took valve some time to come up with a solution for their previous closed nature, im sure they will come up with a sorting solution for their openess problem at the moment, i think user reviews and tags aim directly to something along those lines,

plus valve time, lets give it a little more time, even from a business standpoint, it doesnt benefit valve in any way to have shitty games steal the spotlight of good games which are obviously going to sell more

as for the topic, im just asking people to be more fair, yes valve failed to listen once more, but the guy DID break the rules, both parties made mistakes

 

[Chaos Isaac]

I love how Steam is getting fanboys to defend them about this, when almost every other situation that involved a dude breaking the system to demonstrate it's vulnerability were happily accepted as the guys in the right.

At least, that's how I remember it. Still, it sucks Steam is being a jackass about this, but props to the guy for actually getting them to fix it and not doing any damage.

 

[Something Amyss]

So Microsoft hires people who break their systems, while Valve...Ignores them, bans them if they demonstrate the vulnerability, and then continues to not fix it?

His first mistake was using the Harlem Shake. No one wants to see that shit.

Yeah, I was outraged until I found out he did the Harlem Shake.

Now I'm okay with it.

But seriously, this is kind of....Weeeeeeeird.

Well that means he hacked their system so to speak... there are some clear rules on that subject.
I'll agree that Valve need to listen up and sort their stuff when a problem arises, but that still doesn't permit one to break other peoples shit to make a point.

Did he actually break anything, though?

 

[erbkaiser]

Did he actually break anything, though?

Nope. He made the update shake and play that infernal music, but there was no hacking involved -- all he did was post the script.

Valve chose to allow all external script injection (and still does, apparently -- if done through onclick), all Timmy did was prove to them that the exploit, which Valve claimed was not problematic, was indeed there.

 

[Signa]

It's times like these that the rules shouldn't apply. Rules are in place to prevent harm to come to someone. If the rules are just being used to protect the rulemakers, then they are not valid rules.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Valve/Steam ignoring perfectly reasonable requests and demands? I'm nowhere near surprised, is this a good time to mention how Steam's customer service is so poor it's technically illegal in the UK?

Remember when Steam was heralded as the "saviour of PC gaming?" Yeah me neither. Valve has used up all of their goodwill over the last two year as far as i'm concerned.

Also that Harlem Shake example sounds hilarious, +1 interwebz to that guy. Not like Steam will reverse the ban though, that would be far too reasonable of them, listening to their community even. Dangerous thinking.

Remember when Steam was heralded as the "saviour of PC gaming?" Yeah me neither. Valve has used up all of their goodwill over the last two year as far as i'm concerned.

Two Years? They've been like this for the longest time, hell they're responsible for almost every anti-consumer precadent in gaming. They were just good at PR.

wow, just wow

lets conviently forget euro truck simulator 2 is a reasonable success thanks to steam and it got into steam in the first place thanks to greenlight, a system that allows users to vote for games to be added to steam, man is almost as if *gasp* Valve DOES listen to its community!, but yeah, Valve is evil

Are you serious?

Have you seen how much of a mess Greenlight is? Or more specifically, how many incidents we've had of absolute trash completely circumventing it while other, genuinely popular games wallow in it? Setting up an automated voting system is not a substitute for genuinely paying attention to feedback and communicating with the developers and consumers who use Steam!

Look, Euro Truck Simulator 2 being successful on Steam was not due to Valve being amazingly generous, or thoughtful, or listening to the community beyong being told what people wanted to buy. They don't have to be grateful for their game being a success on Steam when Steam is pretty much the only option going at the moment; there are other digital distribution sites out there, but let's be honest, getting onto Steam is pretty make-or-break for most games of that size.

So you've got this situation where Steam has virtually no quality control and ignores virtually all communication beyond being told what they can sell to people, but they're still getting lauded by people like you who will be grateful for them just selling things... C'mon, let's be honest. What were this guy's options? Keep talking and getting ignored, like everyone else who tries to contact Valve? Or risk Steam, which he relies on to make a living, getting seriously compromised?

But another thing that occurs to me... And this is a big thing... You do realise that all the guy did was make it so that the Harlem Shake played when people viewed a specific community announcement for Euro Truck Simulator 2? And that in pretty much all other cases, developers are allowed to put up almost anything up on those, like linking to trailers with all kinds of content and so on. So what he was editing was something he had every right to edit, it's just that he edited it in a way that could alternatively be used for far more nefarious purposes, so... Yeah. He's getting in trouble purely for the method he used, when if he'd just had a linked YouTube video of the Harlem Shake that would be fine.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Well that means he hacked their system so to speak... there are some clear rules on that subject.

Yeah but Valve is supposed to be more than a machine minded corporation that follows every rule strictly to the letter. Common sense should be of higher priority. And common sense in this situation says that this guy wanted to help them. He shouldn't have been banned for that.

 

[Major_Tom]

People usually get paid for what he did.