Vault101's guide to gender debates

[geK0]

I'm not about to make any accusations, but I feel as though this thread might have been made for the sole purpose of instigating inflamed responses; something like a certain variety of fantasy creatures which have a high health regeneration, an aversion to fire and who collects bridge tolls.

Is this thread a trap Vault?

I feel like this thread is a trap.

A fairly well executed trap.

Kudos to you! I am entertained!
(I usually find threads of this topic annoying)

 

[Vault101]

So nobody has ever complained about fanservice? Because you said i made them up, so i have to assume you are indeed pulling a rule 3. Since anita sarkezian does these things and she exists.

As such, your post is hypocritical, and therefore, meaningless.

your leaps of logic are like Frogs with jetpacks....its amazing really

yes people do complain about fan service [footnote/]since weve changed it to that now instead of wanting to "ban it"[/footnote] and theres nothing wrong with a discussion over why some people take issue with it....you know, without invoking a "Femenazi/SJW conspiracy"

I've explained both in argument and through my "rules" why I don't agree with your points, we could go back and fourth until the end of days...but instead my thread pretty much covers what I think and the arguments you've brought up (to me) are no exception

essentially this was all to save the time and effort of everyone

 

[Vault101]

Isn't just a bit egotistical to name the thread after yourself?

we are all egomaniacs...at heart

I'm not about to make any accusations, but I feel as though this thread might have been made for the sole purpose of instigating inflamed responses; something like a certain variety of fantasy creatures which have a high health regeneration, an aversion to fire and who collects bridge tolls.

I stand by what I said, and yeah its gonna piss a lot of people off but I won't sugar coat it

 

[Vault101]

So you accept that these "rules" are not infalable and yet you still decide you're going to treat them as such?

You are rule 3ing SO HARD RIGHT NOW!

of coarse they're infallible...I'm not Jim for crying out loud

they aren't even "rules" really

they are a tearing down of set of arguments which pop up every single gender debate thread which I feel are both irrelevant and waste time/effort, so I was like "hey! why don't we cut out the bullshit?"

 

[geK0]

I'm not about to make any accusations, but I feel as though this thread might have been made for the sole purpose of instigating inflamed responses; something like a certain variety of fantasy creatures which have a high health regeneration, an aversion to fire and who collects bridge tolls.

I stand by what I said, and yeah its gonna piss a lot of people off but I won't sugar coat it

I did say I was entertained though, I figured you were just messing with people for the fun of it : p

 

[Vault101]

I did say I was entertained though, I figured you were just messing with people for the fun of it : p

a little from column A...a little from column B

 

[Vault101]

You may feel they're irrelevant, but the fact that a very slightly reworded rule 1 would be the answer to all our problems if anyone cared to do it.

"stop talking about it, achieving nothing, and go actually try to do something about it"

those arguments aren't "inherently" bad....but they're used as a derailment technique more often than not

[quote/]You didn't even actually address point 5, the fact that the ultimate conclusion to your rules is for everyone to just argue non-issues and never fix the problem, and in that sense, you're actually way worse than the #gamergate people, because they might actually not have any problem with people actively doing things, and you actually do seem to have a problem with people going out to actively fix the problem by creating things, hence rule 1.
.[/quote]

there is no "endgame" here, there is no clear defined "line" where something is "fixed"

-people make the games they want to see
-people "vote with their wallets"
-people play games they enjoy
-people criticise games

ALL AT THE SAME TIME

life is a multifaceted thing, where people can do a number of things....see my point about Eminem

 

[QuietlyListening]

If this thread is a trap, can we quickly lock the doors now? After all, if you're arguing about one thing, you are incapable of focusing any attention on anything else. While they're busy wrapping their heads around Vault's rules, we can trap them all in one fell swoop.

This is our chance! We've got them right where we want em!

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

See, this is why my perfectly respectable "What is your (realistic) dream job" dies after the first two pages. Why share your hopes and dreams when there is an opportunity for outrage and condescension?

 

[Vault101]

See, this is why my perfectly respectable "What is your (realistic) dream job" dies after the first two pages. Why share your hopes and dreams when there is an opportunity for outrage and condescension?

....hmmmm

rule 1!

essentially "complaining about something and feeling good about something are mutually exclusive"

 

[zen5887]

See, this is why my perfectly respectable "What is your (realistic) dream job" dies after the first two pages. Why share your hopes and dreams when there is an opportunity for outrage and condescension?

There is probably an interesting observation to be had about the difference between positive and negative discussion on the internet to be had about "Why share your hopes and dreams when there is an opportunity for outrage and condescension?"

But it's probably just because threads like that don't really generate discussion.

You see threads that are like "what's your favourite song" and it's pretty much just people posting their favourite song. No discussion, just people showing off their shit. A thread like this though, has something people can disagree with or challenge or praise. Then you get discussion because there is something to talk about beyond "I also like the thing you like".

What is there to say in a thread about dream jobs apart from "this is my dream job"?

 

[Vault101]

But it's probably just because threads like that don't really generate discussion.

You see threads that are like "what's your favourite song" and it's pretty much just people posting their favourite song. No discussion, just people showing off their shit. A thread like this though, has something people can disagree with or challenge or praise. Then you get discussion because there is something to talk about beyond "I also like the thing you like".

job"?

that and righteous anger is sooo soo good

for all this talk of wanting civility...people want that little buzz...that little anger challenge buzz

that said positivity isn't nessicaryly a conversation killer...it depends how its worded and how much room it has

 

[the December King]

That was funny!

Well, and also on target, I guess.

Personally, I would like women and other minorities to enjoy more games that cater to their demographic.

Although I rarely get to fully enjoy the same privilege (being a snake and all).

But seriously, although I'd like to see inclusivity in games, since I'm not really interested in playing/experiencing games that cater to other, specific demographics, I'm not going to buy them /support them with my wallet.

I'm not going to hate anyone, or harass anyone. Full stop.

Nor am I going to get 'upset' or 'angry', but that is harder to do, especially when generalizations are thrown around, and I am more of an emotional person than a fact-digger.

See, I can only ever really speak for myself in these kinds of discussions, because although I do share some of the basic tenants of what I see as feminism, I cannot speak for anyone else who might be one, or not, for that matter. I don't represent/speak for a demographic, even if I am a part of one.

 

[Saetha]

"Nooo, feminists don't want to censor anyone! We don't want to silence anyone! We don't to shut down discussion!

We just want to write up an arbitrary set of rules that obviously favor us with no input from non-feminist or feminist-critical persons, lay out these rules on a forum, and demand you abide by them before engaging us in debate, and basically tell you to sit there and nod your head and lap up every little line we feed you! That's all!"

Yeah, I'd be more inclined to follow these rules if they a) Actually acknowledge, explained, and warned against the various fallacies and arguments that feminists use, in addition to the ones currently stated, b) weren't so terrifically well-suited to shut downing potentially viable arguments just because you don't want to hear them, and c) wasn't dripping with obvious condescension and bias.

You know, if you're going to write "forum rules" talking about people can't use the "But the men!" argument, maybe you should draw up forum rules pointing out that feminists can't use the "1 in 5" stat, or the "The vast majority of DV victims are women," either. That'd be awesome, you know.

Also, side-note - I'm sick of tired of people telling me I "don't know what real feminism is." Maybe if your movement took responsibility for the massive piles of baggage it's accumulated, people would be more inclined to agree with you. But no, that can't be it, right? Everyone who disagrees with feminism must be a misogynist, right? Because anyone who steers clear of the label can't have valid reasons unrelated to sexism for doing it.

 

[Vault101]

Personally, I would like women and other minorities to enjoy more games that cater to their demographic.

Although I rarely get to fully enjoy the same privilege (being a snake and all).

the well known classic "Snake"?

your argument is void

"snipit.

ok write that out again....except take out reference to "feminists"

 

[Saetha]

"snipit.

ok write that out again....except take out reference to "feminists"

I'd have a nonsesnical post because most sentences are dependent on having a subject to make any sense?

If this is an attempt to point out my hypocrisy, sorry sweetheart, it ain't working. I'm just playing by the rules you gave me. You don't get to make up the game and then call me a hypocrite for joining in.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Good lord, there have been some hilariously surreal perspectives in this thread. And this is coming from somebody who sees merit in the 'journalistic integrity' movement going on or whatever.

Regardless, I often find your posting style a little difficult to digest, Vault. It's very ramble-y, and I'm not sure I understood all that you tried to say. It just sort of goes all over the place after your initial points, though it manages to come full circle by the end.

I don't enjoy the use of labels in debates of recent events because there really are so many unique perspectives that people have on this issue that discrediting them by labeling them an 'MRA' or 'SJW' such-and-such is just fishing for a way to justify not listening to a differing (heaven forbid opposing) perception of events.

Of course, some perspectives aren't really worth listening to (as this thread can certainly show), but there are plenty of reasonable voices with differing opinions.