Vegetarians - why?

[Liudeius]

with the right meats you can survive exclusively on meat.

humans are omnivores they eat everything as it's available and in the best balance they can

anyone that doesn't do this is part of natures "lets kill as many as we can to control this plague" system

doesn't make you stupid or wrong (excluding my opinion) just naturally inclined to not follow evolutions past tracks

if that came across as a vague cop out then it came out how intended it to

also vegetarian diets ARE NOT HEALTHIER

it all comes down to which has more unhealthy things involved
insects and disease may be more likely to end up in your meat but pesticide which is just as bad if not worse than those diseases (and parasites)

anyone that says otherwise is lying deceiving you or stupid

organic means a legally acceptable amount of chemicals were used on your veges and their should be a meat equivalent if you look for it

or skip the whole organic or not process and learn to wash and cook it properly

First off, those first few lines don't really make sense, you need to word your point more clearly.

Secondly, read my comment before you reply, I said "You cant survive WELL" on meat alone. Of course you can survive, but you miss out on many of the benefits of plants and therefore have a drastically shortened lifespan.

Just because we are omnivores doesn't mean it is healthy to eat meat, I would suggest you do some research if you seriously are trying to say that cow is healthy. (Make sure you use proper studies, nothing from the "Meat Eating Association of America", they would obviously have a bias.)

Scientific research shows that eating red meat reduces your life span and that eating certain plant materials increases your life span. If you think vegetarian diets or diets high in vegetables are not healthier, you really need to do some research. The only exception is fish, however omega-3 can be obtained from other sources as well.

You are correct that it doesn't make me stupid or wrong to be right while the one accusing me of being wrong is not even typing clearly enough to make an argument.

I never said anything about pesticides and parasites, reply to people who actually said those things. However, most pesticides, especially when washed off properly, have not been show to be detrimental to humans. I am however arguing the base health risks, hormones, anti-biotics, bacteria, and parasites in meat and pesticides and bacteria in plants do not matter in this argument.

 

[bootz]

I find it strange that I try to stay away from vegatables. I've got sick from 2 different restaurants from eating vegetables (Green Onions at chi chis and Tomatoes at a subway). Vegtables are not the heathlier choice, they have so may chemicals, fertilizers, and pesticides. Harvesters put soot and toxins right on the food. I actively avoid them unless I buy from a local grower.
I could wash them but plants absorb their nutrients from the enviroment, so they are inside of the parts we eat.
Have you seen how they are displayed in wal mart where every old lady has touched every piece of fruit there.

I like my saran wrapped fingerprint free meat.

Plants are living things too and they feel pain.

 

[Liudeius]

but nor would raw meat (which also must be cooked by the way to avoid disease and taste good.)

Actually not necessarily.
In Japan they love, yuke, which is high grade raw ground chuck mixed with raw quail egg.
It's eaten fresh and the food safety standards are quite high in Japan so there is not a problem with disease. In addition, I and most of the country find it quite delicious.
So, cooking meat is not necessary for food safety nor taste, it is only one method of doing so.

Well of course I know that some meat is eaten raw, but the meat that is most commonly eaten should be cooked, or in the case of things like ground meat, you would have to be insane to not cook.
However the commenter I was replying to tried to say you have to cook the majority of commonly consumed plants before you eat them, so I was replying that they don't need to be cooked, and all commonly consumed meats (in the US)need to be cooked or are at least expected to be cooked.
Perhaps I should have made this generalization more clear, but other than humans, all carnivores eat raw meat in the wild, I assumed it was obvious that it's POSSIBLE to eat raw meat, just not what is common.

 

[Liudeius]

Have you never eaten green food (or fruits)? Just about anything in the produce aisle other than artichokes can be bitten into right there. It might not taste great, but nor would raw meat (which also must be cooked by the way to avoid disease and taste good.)

It doesn't matter what was history though, it matters what is now. Our bodies CAN survive on vegetables alone (assuming you ensure you get your protein), and can't survive well on only meat (you miss out on too many vitamins and minerals).

Also I edited my first comment to reply to your variety of meat comment if you care to read it.

False.

Meat is perfectly delicious raw, however only if of high quality.

I won't bother arguing any other points raised in the thread because I simply don't care enough. I'm interested to see a novel reasoning but I can't be bothered arguing about this topic, it's an exercise in futility.

TRUE.

ALL commonly eaten meat is the US is cooked. Just because there are a couple dishes that aren't doesn't mean meat in general is not cooked.

Also, I was replying in kind to the other commenter's comment, I see nothing about you confirming that almost every single commonly eaten plant can be eaten raw.

You people (commenters on the forum) really need to understand context.

 

[smegmar]

I'll rebuff all the common anti vegetarian remarks and questions that I hear so often.

1) Humans were made to eat meat.
**No we were not, or at least not in the quantities that we do. We evolved from apes, who were mostly vegetarian except from some insects (personally I don't think insects count as conscience animals). Additionally our digestive tract is almost 3 times longer then that of a true carnivore, such as a canine, this is for the digestion of fibrous grains and vegetables.

2) We have canine teeth to bite meat.
** If you look at the human mouth you will count 4 canine teeth. There is many more incisors and molars for eating vegetables, grains, plant matter and other such tougher then meat substances. I surmise that our current canine teeth were for fighting with each other as primates rather then devouring prey.

3) Vegetarians don't get enough protein
** Not true, the required daily amount of protein for a man is around 80 grams, a vegetarian diet supplies over the needed amount of protein 105g, where as a typical omnivore diet is around 155grams. The "Carsinogenic threshold" is around 135 grams daily, this is where additional protein exponentially is responsible for cancer. NOTE: taken from memory on an American study that I cannot find source, figures may be off but relative values should be correct.

3) We only evolved from cavemen because we ate meat and got the protein.
** That is absolutely true and I have no argument with that statement. However we no longer need to eat meat to supply us with the protein to meet our needs.

4) If we all went vegetarian there wouldn't be enough vegetables for everyone.
**Very much the opposite is true, if everyone went vegetarian we would have bountiful food supplies. The amount of feed used on meet farms is disproportionate to the amount of meat produced.

more to come later

 

[Outright Villainy]

I mean, I'm apparently in the minority in that I find chocolate ice cream absolutely disgusting and terrible.

I'm not the only one? GOOD LORD.

Ot: I'm not going to rationalise my meat eating. It's probably better overall if everyone were vegetarian, yes. But you know what? I don't give a fuck.

It's way too tasty.

 

[Liudeius]

That's so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

The difference between Turkey and chicken alone is enough of a difference. I don't even particulalry like poultry. But I admit it doesn't all just taste the same.

Try game bird. That's completely different from any poultry you'll have tried. Duck is also more red and flavoursome than the kind of white meat you associate with birds.

The difference between a piece of plain pork and plain beef is huge. The difference between different cuts of pork is freaking massive.

A piece of Ham does not taste anything like a strip of backon, or a belly pork.

A piece of rib eye steak doesn't taste like T-bone or sirloin.

And I know the US has ostrich farms, they're quite different than anything you'll have tasted. You can also get ahold of gator, crocodile, kangaroo.... The list is nearly endless.

You can't generalise about something like that. Especially when it appears you don't actually know what you're talking about.

That's true. And I love exotic fruits.

I'm always going to foreign markets to get ahold of stuff you wouldn't get in the supermarket.

But you see. People who have a full diet can go and do that whilst enjoying a nice lamb chop every now and then.

Not being a vegetarian doesn't make someone a carnivore.

Simply put, we just don't needlessly limit our diets. Vegies and Vegans do.

I am only referring to commonly eaten foods. Of course if you find the nearest inhabited planet and systematically slaughter than eat all creatures you are going to find variety.

I said different animals can taste similar, not the same.

Personally stuff like different cuts of steak I find to taste the same, but things like different parts of a pig, cow, and poultry still only give you what? 12 variations? Of course you can eat the brain and eyes, but this is irrelevant. I am referring only to common food that you kind find immediately after walking into any Wal-Mart.

As for your limiting of diets.
Many meat eaters do limit their diets, they even talk crap about people who enjoy vegetables. If 95% of your daily caloric intake isn't meat, there are plenty of douchebags who will insult you for it.

Also I am not arguing against eating meat, I am giving reasons why people are vegetarian as the thread says. Comments such as the one you were responding to are in response to other people saying crazy things like "You can't eat vegetables raw" and "Humans are omnivores so we should only eat meat".

 

[Hader]

I find it strange that I try to stay away from vegatables. I've got sick from 2 different restaurants from eating vegetables (Green Onions at chi chis and Tomatoes at a subway). Vegtables are not the heathlier choice, they have so may chemicals, fertilizers, and pesticides. Harvesters put soot and toxins right on the food. I actively avoid them unless I buy from a local grower.
I could wash them but plants absorb their nutrients from the enviroment, so they are inside of the parts we eat.
Have you seen how they are displayed in wal mart where every old lady has touched every piece of fruit there.

I like my saran wrapped fingerprint free meat.

Plants are living things too and they feel pain.

You mean Olive Garden?

Plants really don't feel pain though. I guess that is fortunate for them though.

 

[roflmecopter]

Because animals are treated horribly and kept in horrible conditions in factories and Its healthier if done right.

(Yes I know don't bring in the reason of animal cruelty well its not really animal cruelty as animal cruelty and genocide but its a big reason for vegetarians.)

 

[Canid117]

Most plants that have high protein tend to be labor intensive and short of nuts, the easiest ways our ancestors could get protein was by running a steer off a cliff and roasting it over a fire. And you are correct we are omnivores. You might want to look that up though because it means we were designed to eat plants AND meat. It doesn't take much for my canines to chew through a steak and the molars help too.

Also Captcha is on the fritz. If this works it is only because I have tried posting it over a dozen times. (That is not an exaggeration)

It is absurdly easy to get protein from non-meat products in modern times, and all herbivores get it from out in the wild anyway. Ever heard of bread, peanut butter, corn, peas, tofu. There are plenty of high protein (and in the case of tofu complete protein) sources. As I said to someone else, it doesn't matter what the past was, it matters what is now. If we are only caring about history, at one time we were herbivores, so apparently it is physically impossible for us to eat meat.

Animals that are carnivores tend to have sharp teeth, animals with flat teeth tend to be herbivores. It doesn't matter that you can cut through a walnut shell with a butterknife, you should be using a nutcracker. (This is a metaphor saying that while molars work for meat, it doesn't mean they are ideal for meat.)

Yes but we didn't evolve in modern times. We evolved in a time when there were to easy ways to get protein. Nuts and other animals and it was very hard to get enough nuts to sustain a significant population. Ergo, we were designed to eat anything with nutritional value. Including that poor fluffy bunny that is so tasty when you cut it open.

 

[Darth_Murmeltier]

There are several reasons, some of which I will mention below:

Animal suffering , obviously. If you, like me, acknowledge the fact that in suffering animals are our equals, knowing that millions of animals are slaughtered simply because we want to enjoy the luxury of eating meat is quite terrible.

The environment. That's right, the meat industry is extremely, preposterously bad for the environment. Pullulating, destruction of nature, the waste of huge masses of water and so forth.

And lastly, the industry itself is obsolete. This subject has been debated over the years. But in the end, there is plenty of evidence to support that a vegetarian lifestyle can be just as healthy, in many cases more healthy, than meat eating. And you can get by perfectly well on it. Really, people who still claim that vegans or vegetarians can't get enough protein only prove how out of touch with the scientific community they have become.

No, a more relevant question would be: Why are vegetarians met with so much criticism from society?



Some of the comments on this thread are just shocking. I wouldn't dream of forcing people to be vegetarians, or value the life of animals simply because there are scientific evidence to prove that the mammal brain is very similar when it comes to physical and psychological suffering. But at least have the decency in you not to joke about this subject.

This^

You're awesome!

Also I recommend everyone to watch We feed the World

 

[tomtom94]

Why not? It's the way I started out eating and it's the way I'm going to carry on eating. Why should anyone care?

 

[Liudeius]

Yes but we didn't evolve in modern times. We evolved in a time when there were to easy ways to get protein. Nuts and other animals and it was very hard to get enough nuts to sustain a significant population. Ergo, we were designed to eat anything with nutritional value. Including that poor fluffy bunny that is so tasty when you cut it open.

Just to make it clear, I'm not vegetarian, just responding to your illogical comments against them.

Have you forgotten the original point?

You we're saying that the fact that you need protein have have four canine teeth means you HAVE to eat meat and vegetarians are wrong to not. I replied that this was not the case.

If you insist that vegetarians are wrong just because they are different from our stone age ancestors, I would recommend you eat that bunny you just killed raw and dispose of the computer on which you are responding to this message.

 

[Kortney]

As far as the topic if concerned, why do we even have to ask why? Excuse the irony, it's a real question. I'd understand the need to ask why if they were acting in a way that was dangerous or harmful, but they are just expressing a dietary choice.

A dietary choice not always made for the same reason. So I am asking the reasons behind the choice.

Well that's going to be as varied as each person. Usually it is:

A) Doesn't like the taste of meat.

B) Has a moral objection to contributing to the slaughter of animals.

Or a mixture. There are other reasons too, my hair dresser just had a son who will have to be a vegan all his life due to a rare disease. But A and B are the main reasons and they make perfect sense.

 

[JasonKaotic]

I hate the whole human superiority thing. What we do isn't natural.
If a human kills an animal it's acceptable, but if an animal kills a human IT'S EVIL AND DESERVES TO DIE!

Evil is not an absolute construct. It IS relative and subjective.

If aliens come to kill us you can say:

"hey you can't kill me, I'm a vegan"

And see how far that gets you. I think anyone with any common sense would not submit to death just because they did the same to animals with minuscule brains that is barely capable of the most simple thought.

Illusion of moral superiority doesn't count for shit when you're dead.

...What? That's not my point at all and you know it. My point was that nothing makes humans more important than animals. I was using an example. Nothing to do with us surviving.

 

[Liudeius]

What you said was still wrong.

Different cuts of meat from the same animal can taste different. different cuts of a vegetable can't.

Meat is just as diverse a food produce as fruit or veg.

And who cares what idiots think?

I eat anything. Be it fruit, veg, meat. I've even eaten insects. I'm not squeamish and I enjoy any kind of food that is prepared well.

I obviously have food substances I don't care for. I'm not the biggest fan of poultry, and pork has to be cooked very rare, which you never get in restaurants these days. In-fact. Most meat I eat, I'll eat it as raw as possible unless it's been finely slow cooked over night or something.

You don't have to limit your diet to enjoy meat. But you do have to limit your diet to be a veggie or vegan.

That's just a fact.

Meat is part of a healthy diet whether veggies would like to admit to that or not.

That's why most veggies take supplements and pills to make up for the lack of iron, protein and fatty acids.

Fish is the healthiest of meats. And they happen to be my favourite.

What I said wasn't wrong, I just wasn't clear enough that I was referring to variety without going out of your way to get it. I even specified that I was excluding fish (the type with the most variety in many stores) because "meat" generally refers to mammals and fowl.

Different cuts may taste different to a degree, but, without going substantially out of one's way, you still tend to be quite limited in most supermarkets.
Vegetables do have variety between cuts, even though they don't need it. Artichoke leaves are different from artichoke hearts, onions are different from scallions (their leaves).

Meat is diverse, but not readily available in the diversity you mention. There are far more varieties of non-meat products in stores than meat products, whether you are only counting the base ingredients or are including the processed foods.

Mammal meat is proven to be substantially unhealthy. Fowl has been shown to be somewhat healthy. Fish has been shown to increase life expectancy.

While some meat (not mammal meat) may assist a healthy diet, it is not necessary (without supplements). It is however necessary, to be healthy, to eat non-meat products. Protein can be easily obtained from plants as can iron and fat. Tofu not only contains complete proteins, but also most of your daily iron in a single serving. Many other plants also contain part of your required amino acids and it isn't as if it is that hard to find fat in plants.

I enjoy meat too, I am not talking down upon eating it. I am just trying to rebuke claims made against vegetarians. While limiting of one's diet is necessary, it is healthier (with the exception of seafood, I don't know about insects) and it is better for the environment.

 

[Hader]

Well that's going to be as varied as each person. Usually it is:

A) Doesn't like the taste of meat.

B) Has a moral objection to contributing to the slaughter of animals.

Or a mixture. There are other reasons too, my hair dresser just had a son who will have to be a vegan all his life due to a rare disease. But A and B are the main reasons and they make perfect sense.

Usually. There's been plenty of health reasons cited as well. A few have mentioned just discomfort with eating meat after having been exposed to the innards and whatnot of animals (like through an anatomy class). Strangely that's something that actually slipped my mind since that kind of stuff doesn't bother me in the same way.

 

[Saelune]

Most I know do it because they are against how animals are treated before they are turned into food.
However while this is fine, most people go about it wrong. (My vegan friend had a pizza, to wish I pointed out the cheese. She said as long as she did not eat it it was ok. I then pointed out that this is wasteful, and she already [aid for it anyways)
Anyone who does it because they think eating meat is wrong though is just stupid.