Video Games blamed for US Massacre in Iraq

[Ben Legend]

So the soldiers were acting like it was a game?

Now, don't blame games, blame their commanding officers for not correctly training them for these situations that they 'should' be prepared for.

 

[RanD00M]

It's war. Shit happens.

Well seeing as how the American army is one of the most advanced armies in the world,shit like this shouldn't really happen.Unless it's some sort of stupidity shit.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

It is indeed tragic to see this sort of thing happen. The loss of innocent life in regrettable, but blaming video games?

The pilot and gunner seem to have gotten too trigger-happy for their own good, and this seems to be a reminder that the ROE should be adhered to more carefully.

I would also imagine that the anxiousness in the pilot and gunner's voices was due to the percieved urgency to fire on what they saw were armed insurgents. Sometimes the process of obtaining permission to fire on targets is long and drawn out, and the target may disappear before permission to fire is given. That easily explains the urgency in their voices. Most people don't realize that there is some bureaucracy involved in firing the weapon(s) on a military aircraft nowadays.

I know a guy who used to work with MQ-9s (formerly the, "Predator B," - Now the, "Reaper,") and he said it sometimes took 10 minutes or more for him to recieve permission to investigate or even fire on a threat. That's not even counting the fact that he then had to relay that back to the drone's pilot!

EDIT: The video also points out (at the end) that some insurgents actually were killed when that AH-64 fired on that group. It's just too bad they took out the innocents as well.

I agree whole heartedly with this statement, except for the pilot and gunner being too trigger happy. Then again, I'm not terribly well versed in the RoE, but I would assume they followed it pretty closely. Percieved target to be carrying a weaspon that could take down their helicopter, confirmed targets on ground, asked permission to open fire, confirmed permission and ultimately neutralized the threat. Seems like the only ball dropped was the intelligence they had gathered, for obvious reasons.

As the quoter poster had mentioned, the urgency was not because they wanted to see how many people they could kill, but the fact that their lives were on the line and they need permission to open fire before they can act, which means they're just hovering there in the open with an RPG ready to shoot them down at any time (or so they thought). Quite hoenstly, from what I've seen of my own friends coming back from tours, they acted pretty damn calm and collected under a potentially life-ending scenario. It's somewhat akin to having a gun pointed to your head and your own gun pointed at your shooter, asking permission from a dude who can't see the situation while your shooter is distracted by something. You're going to want that permission to say "open fire" A.S.A.P. so you aren't shot first!

Then they bring into question about that chatter afterwards, saying "they seemed too gun-happy about what they did". As morbid as it sounds, have you not felt proud about something you accomplished at your work place? You have to remember, this is their job! To say that they should be comdemned to hell for displaying a little pride in their handywork is sickening. I'll take the windshield comment as my example, where he points out that he got a shot placed right in the middle, pretty much confirming kills for anyone in the vehicle. How is that a bad thing knowing that they thought those were "bad guys"? I'd be pretty damn proud myself if I'd worked on firing a highly inaccurate gun to place the perfect shot within a vehicle to ensure the four soldiers inside were dead on impact of the round. If they actually were insurgents and they just took out what potentially could have wiped out a company of troopers, there'd be some sort of commendation and they'd be freakin' heroes! If that was the case, I'd be out of my seat and screaming "God damn! I just made the streets safe to walk again." In their heads, they took out soldiers they were supposed to kill as their job and that's a good thing. It's just regretable that wasn't the case.

Which leads to the point of "where are the thoughts of the soliders that did this?" God forbid we get their views on the situation. They couldn't possibly feel badly for what they did, now knowing what they did was wrong. No, because they're heartless killing machines viewing lives as simple point totals straight out of some arcade shooting game! It boggles my mind how some people don't ever stop to consider who's lives they piss on so long as they can get their point across. That's the true evil here.

In the end, I'm not terribly pleased to hear that a bunch of innocents died because of some misinformation and that is something that clearly needs to be worked on, but to say that the soliders out their are heartless, blood sucking, soul crushing, mindless trigger happy monsters is absolutely unforgivable. They're doing their job and maybe if you think they're bad at it, you should go and show them how it's done Mr. Reporter!

 

[Giggsy]

"The video provides a rare, disturbing close-up of modern urban warfare at a time when violence was near its peak in the Iraqi capital and the US death toll was mounting."

It's not like soldiers need a method to cope with this....oh,wait

 

[Critical92]

This is probably the lamest thing ive heard in a good long time.

 

[Flour]

That was pretty much my thought. I haven't seen a game with a High Score in it for almost 2 decades and I guarantee you none of the 20-somethings in the Apache have ever "gone for the high score."

CoD4 has a game mode where you get points for killing enemies and displays the highest score for that map.
IIRC most 2d games still track high scores. Bullet hell games use a high score system. Hell, I nearly forgot one of the most well-known games with a high-score system, Guitar Hero.

High scores? What is this, 1992? Seriously, cut that crap. Things like this and saying I get "points" for killing hookers just proves how little these people know about video games.

Technically, you do get points(money) for killing them in GTA.

 

[chiggerwood]

OK that's it I'm tired of this bullshit. LEAVE THE SOLDIERS THE FUCK ALONE. I've seen the video and heard everything they said, and maybe I've just spent too much time around Vietnam vets, but that's how a lot of soldiers act in a fucking war. It's a survival technique, not video games. The phrase "Light 'em up" has been used before video games. When engaging the enemy, soldiers say weird shit. I asked my father about some of his time in 'Nam and he LAUGHED when remembered seeing about 100 Vietcong get quote "cooked by napalm".

That's war, you have to laugh, you need to have gallows humor, or your going to lose it. They followed the Rules of Engagement. They did everything right according to the rules of war. it was a mistake. We don't need to keep bringing up this shit so the soldier that fired gets reminded that he killed innocents. He probably reminds himself of that everyday so I say just accept that as cold and fucked up as this is gonna sound, in war shit happens. It's unavoidable. Was it a tragedy? Yes, but we don't need to keep rubbing it in the poor soldiers face. He probably does that to himself. I say we move on and learn from this tragedy.

p.s. this isn't against anyone in the escapist just reporters and assholes who wanna keep bringing it up

 

[Danny Ocean]

Why bother challenging the way the military conducts itself in urban warfare, when we can just blame it all on Video Games?

That's not quite what they were saying.

They said the pilots were treating war like a videogame, not that videogames were at fault. I'd be inclined to agree with them actually, it all seems very remote and detached from the cockpit of an Apache however many hundred metres away they were.

You beat me to it. Methinks the people here are a tad quick to rile. There are only two mentions of video games in the entire paragraph. One is saying that someone said it looked like they were treating real war as a game, and the other backs up that claim. It doesn't say who the spokesperson is, though.

The behaviour of the US troopers has been likened to them playing a computer game and aiming for high scores.

A spokesman said: "The behaviour of the pilots is like they are playing a computer game and their desire appears to be that they want to get high scores in that game."

Does it say in either of those paragraphs that video games caused this? Nope. It just said they were acting like they were playing a video game.

 

[Void(null)]

...stating that we are all genocidal mass-murdering baby killing psychopaths in the making because we have lost any connection with reality because we have killed our minds and our hearts with violent video games?

He stated that? Wow.

Anyway, I think that for one thing he never directly made the connection with gaming, only insinuating a loose tie-in with gaming culture, and I don't think his intent was to attack the hobby. People on this site seem very eager to jump to their own defense even when they're not actually being attacked.

After 30 years of having to defend my hobby from ignorant jackholes like this guy, yes... that's very much the picture I feel he is trying to portray. Were always on that knife edge of some schmuck trying to make a name for himself attacking the industry by claiming that the soundtrack to Modern Warfare 2 back subliminal messages in it, telling people to mass murder civilians.

If he didn't want to draw the parallel with Video games then why would he even bring it up? Its like suddenly mentioning German death metal or a Stanly Kuberick Film... you don't draw parallel's with something without insinuating cause.

 

[WiwuX]

The article doesn't seem to be saying anything incorrect.

Soldiers are distanced from their actions in the helicopter behind a screen. This makes repercussions seem as distant as in a video game.

 

[brodie21]

its the fault of the fucking insurgents for dressing like civilians and making them all potential targets. they say that america is the devil, but what the fuck do you expect us to do when your people are running into crowds with bombs strapped to their chests?

 

[Yoshemo]

What a huge load of crap... games don't even have scores anymore

 

[SturmDolch]

Technically, you do get points(money) for killing them in GTA.

Yes, but the amount is so minimal. You're not getting rewarded, but the word "points" sounds like you are. Like killing hookers is a suitable method for getting a "highscore" (something which the target audience, non-gamers, may think is in GTA). I forgot what the term is for doing this... It's not weasel words. But using one word that is almost synonymous but makes whatever it is sound worse.

"I saw a cat on the way to work"
"I saw a predatory feline on the way to work"
"Today I went to work"
"Today I went to the robot assembly line"

 

[mrfusspot]

Wait...
Where in the news article was there anything that made it seem as if the soldiers were itching for a high score? I read "Light 'em up!" "Let us shoot!" and stuff like that, but nothing about "200 points if you hit 'im with just one bullet!"

Sigh. Its stuff like this that gives gaming a bad name. They were in the room while Call of Duty was on the television, they must be violent and thus video games are to blame!

 

[JWAN]

"C'mon, fire!"
"Keep Shooting"
"Light them up"

Truly phrases that have never been uttered in battle before.

 

[JWAN]

Wait...
Where in the news article was there anything that made it seem as if the soldiers were itching for a high score? I read "Light 'em up!" "Let us shoot!" and stuff like that, but nothing about "200 points if you hit 'im with just one bullet!"

Sigh. Its stuff like this that gives gaming a bad name. They were in the room while Call of Duty was on the television, they must be violent and thus video games are to blame!

When I drive me and my friends joke about old ladies only being worth 25 points because they move too slow.

God help me if you put a mic in my car.

 

[Timotei]

IT WAS VIDYA GAMES! Vidya game and aliens!

One of the things the new needs to realize is just how impossible it is to tell an insurgent from a civilian. One minute a man with an AK47 is considered an insurgent, but once he's been downed all it takes is for someone to cart off his gun and suddenly there is no way to tell whether he was an insurgent or a civilian.

 

[TheDoctor455]

It's not the army's fault for not correctly depersonalising their troops, the fault of the soldiers nor is it the fault of the guy who gave them the go-ahead.

No, obviously video games caused this. Which begs the question, how long until someone photoshops the video to make it look like a game?

About five minutes after this story goes viral... which I'm guessing was right about now...


OT:
Oh yes, its obviously not any member of the military's fault for not properly training these idiots, and its not the idiots' fault either. And it isn't even the idiots' commanding officer's fault. No... it has to be VIDJA-GAAAAMMMMEEEESSSS!!!!!!!!!