Video Games with Real* Moral® Choices? !

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Mar 9, 2010
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Sulimo said:
So basically the best choice is a choice that effects nothing whatsoever? Bro, that is not a choice, that's the illusion of choice.
Firstly, welcome to The Escapist. Secondly, you misunderstand me, for that I blame myself.

In World at War the choices did have effects, however they were in the form of nothingness. In war one man has no effect, especially when he's already been taken prisoner. It's better than most because it has realistic effects, if I steal large amounts in Fallout with nobody witnessing or ever knowing it I get treated the same way as when I blow up Megaton, which aren't realistic effects. The beauty isn't in the lack of effect, rather the abundance.
 

HT_Black

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Alpha Protocol. For all its many, many, many, many flaws, it had an excellent grasp on how to make you sweat when it gave you a choice.
 

TriggerHappyAngel

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Feb 17, 2010
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DaHero said:
TriggerHappyAngel said:
Fire Emblem always forces me to make tough decisions; "Do I let this unit die, or do I restart the whole chapter?"
- Not sure if it qualifies as a moral choice though.
I always restarted, I DO NOT LET RAVEN DIE!
And Matthew and Canas and Jaffar and to be honest I always restarted because no-one deserved to die!
 

Pandabearparade

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Mar 23, 2011
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New Vegas did this right, because the 'good' option isn't the one I think is the best morally.
The NCR is traditionally viewed (by most people, at least) as the 'best' option, but I couldn't disagree more.
I want Mr. House at the wheel, and as his trusted right-hand I'll ensure the steam-engine of progress that leads to a brighter future doesn't run over too many people who don't deserve to be run down. The NCR isn't a brighter future, it's the same problems from the dark past. Fuck that!
 

NerfedFalcon

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Mar 23, 2011
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Deus Ex does it, and I hardly even noticed. It doesn't even have a karma meter; just difficulty to do the right thing vs. eventual reward. For instance, the two that got me were saving Gunther (I came in via the roof and he was too far out of the way) and the hostages in the subway station after I accidentally hit an explosive barrel and the chain reaction cleaned out all the NSF and all the hostages. And it doesn't immediately end your game or give you bad karma points; you just get a stern talking-to and you don't get as much stuff after the mission. Hence, doing the right thing is sometimes harder, but it's worth it in the end.

And this is exactly the same game where it's possible to shoot a girl's father in cold blood right in front of her face, then declare it 'a shame'.
 

The Cheezy One

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Dec 13, 2008
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DaHero said:
TriggerHappyAngel said:
Fire Emblem always forces me to make tough decisions; "Do I let this unit die, or do I restart the whole chapter?"
- Not sure if it qualifies as a moral choice though.
I always restarted, I DO NOT LET RAVEN DIE!
FOOL! Raven can NOT die!

I once had him headbutt the entire squad that Harken spawns with, as I misestimated ranges and Raven went in with no support after recruiting Harken with Oswin. He survived them all!

Same with Lowen - his defence becomes pointlessly high later on in the Hector campaign! For example, 26 defence points! I would send him and Hector to hold an entire front on their own!

OT: Some Fable choices. I know they are mocked quite badly, but some of them did make me think, especially as I also play as a nice guy.
 

Kargathia

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In general I'm most in favour of what's happening in ME: there is no good and evil, only a choice as to how far you're willing to go to get the job done.

There is only one major flaw with this: the game still needed to be playable, so you know that you can complete the game even if you don't use the super-unethical superweapon.

For example the Anvil of the Void in DA:O. It was advertised as "it'll make you more awesome in your final battle", but I was pretty sure that the game would never allow me to fail the final battle just because I picked the good option somewhere along the line.

Consequences are pretty awesome to have, but all too often you know that regardless what you do, you still can finish the game.

Oh, and I'd really appreciate it if next time they wouldn't make the only decent healer a goddamn care bear. I pretty much felt I was forced to go the hippie way when I wasn't playing a mage myself.
 

vxicepickxv

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Sep 28, 2008
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GameMaNiAC said:
Alter Ego. Try that game. Was made back in the 80s and has the best moral dilemmas. There is no 'good or evil'. You have to do what you think is right.
Why didn't you link to such an old school masterpiece?

http://www.playalterego.com/
 

MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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SirBryghtside said:
[See, I found that moral choice easy.

Either they die, or they semi-die and the Geth get a 'good' army to help fight the Reapers. What's the problem? Also, why was the latter considered the 'renegade' choice? That doesn't even make sense in terms of ME morality.
I'm guessing the deal with that particular choice was that, you were either killing off the heretic Geth or completely changing their beliefs. So, it was meant to be a bad thing either way. From a purely practical viewpoint though, it's an easy choice. Kill off a large group of potential allies or convert them to your cause? What to do, what to do?

I could see why they decided the latter choice was the renegade one though - you kill plenty of your enemies in ME2, so the former isn't really so different from all those other times, but changing the beliefs of an entire group may seem a bit manipulative. After all, we probably wouldn't like the thought of someone else changing our deepest beliefs, especially if they could do it without or knowledge.

But yeh, it wasn't really a tough moral choice.
 

GiantRaven

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CRRPGMykael said:
Yeah,WRPG's usually have those.And by WRPG's I mean the Bethesda games directed by Todd Howard,who is,in fact,totally awesome.Fable and inFamous are kinda stuck with them too,along with Alpha Protocol,etc,but the only games that really FEEL like they're altering the game depending on how you play it would be the Mass Effect games and yeah,Bethesda's WRPG's.
Mass Effect and Bethesda games change depending on how you play them more than Alpha Protocol does? Don't make me laugh.
 

CRRPGMykael

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GiantRaven said:
CRRPGMykael said:
Yeah,WRPG's usually have those.And by WRPG's I mean the Bethesda games directed by Todd Howard,who is,in fact,totally awesome.Fable and inFamous are kinda stuck with them too,along with Alpha Protocol,etc,but the only games that really FEEL like they're altering the game depending on how you play it would be the Mass Effect games and yeah,Bethesda's WRPG's.
Mass Effect and Bethesda games change depending on how you play them more than Alpha Protocol does? Don't make me laugh.
Ooh,the Fable series and inFamous drastically change depending on how you play too,that doesn't make them any better.For the record,I just got Mass Effect 2 and I'm about to play it because I'm sick of everybody telling me to do so,and I never played AP either,so stop getting your panties in a bunch.
 

GiantRaven

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CRRPGMykael said:
Ooh,the Fable series and inFamous drastically change depending on how you play too,that doesn't make them any better.For the record,I just got Mass Effect 2 and I'm about to play it because I'm sick of everybody telling me to do so,and I never played AP either,so stop getting your panties in a bunch.
So you're making comments about games you haven't played? How the devil is that the right way to go about proving a point?

Jimmy T. Malice said:
Mass Effect has some decent ones that aren't specifically labeled as Paragon or Renegade. Like what to do about the genophage cure in Mordin's loyalty mission, or whether to rewrite the heretic Geth.
Sadly both of those choices are tied into the Paragon/Renegade system. They really shouldn't have been in my opinion, along with the big choice in the end game as well. If there's one huge flaw in Mass Effect, it's tying everything into the Paragon/Renegade system when they don't need to.
 

FallenTraveler

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Jun 11, 2010
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Catherine, there are a lot of obvious moral choices but there are a lot more less obvious ones, after you make your choice you may go "Wait why is that?" but then after some thought it makes sense...

I love that game.
 

CRRPGMykael

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GiantRaven said:
CRRPGMykael said:
Ooh,the Fable series and inFamous drastically change depending on how you play too,that doesn't make them any better.For the record,I just got Mass Effect 2 and I'm about to play it because I'm sick of everybody telling me to do so,and I never played AP either,so stop getting your panties in a bunch.
So you're making comments about games you haven't played? How the devil is that the right way to go about proving a point?

Jimmy T. Malice said:
Mass Effect has some decent ones that aren't specifically labeled as Paragon or Renegade. Like what to do about the genophage cure in Mordin's loyalty mission, or whether to rewrite the heretic Geth.
Sadly both of those choices are tied into the Paragon/Renegade system. They really shouldn't have been in my opinion, along with the big choice in the end game as well. If there's one huge flaw in Mass Effect, it's tying everything into the Paragon/Renegade system when they don't need to.
I know I am judgin' a book by its cover,although remember that I am yet to play those games.
 

NightHawk21

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Dec 8, 2010
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JamesStone said:
Fallout New Vegas. Caesar´s Legion is the best example of evil dickheads, but they have some potencial for good, and if you side with them, the NCR, Mr. House or Yes Man is just a question of your moral beliefs, and not of black or white general conceptions of good and evil.
Ya Fallout: NV had some nice ones, and went away in a lot of missions from just the "evil" and the "good" choice, having multiple ways to finish a quest that would not only effect your karma but also have differences in the game world. I don't remember where I read it, but I believe that certain choices go much deeper than giving you a certain karma + rewards and can affect the prices of items in stores at certain areas, etc.
 

Kimarous

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Sep 23, 2009
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The biggest moral choice I've ever faced is the ultimate moral choice from Fallout 3's add-on "The Pitt".

Now, I'm not counting the karma system, as you only really get a karma shift if you actively participate in the final conflict and kill members of either side. It is completely viable to run through the battlefield and ignore the two factions fighting it out, as I did.

The Pitt is split between two factions: the raiders run by Ashur, and the slaves led by Wernher. Werner recruits you to help free the slaves from Ashur's control and steal their in-progress cure for the plague devastating The Pitt. This disease transforms people into mindless Trog mutants and is completely lethal to children. This is why Ashur acquires slaves to work The Pitt's industry; it is the only way he can sustain and repopulate the city in its current state.

After earning your freedom, you have the opportunity to meet Ashur himself and slip in to steal the cure. Even before you speak with Ashur, and before he even notices you, you overhear part of a conversation between Ashur and one of his chief underlings, wherein the underling says "slaves" where Ashur insists they say "workers". I'm a strong believer in the idea that good people can be brought down by the people around him, and from my perspective, Ashur's dreams for The Pitt are hindered by the raider mentality of his main forces.

In addition to this, Ashur reveals to the player that he knows about Wernher and his hidden motives. Wernher was once Ashur's lieutenant and had attempted a coup, but failed and was enslaved with the others. This calls into question whether or not Wernher is truly fighting for the slave cause or if he's just using them for payback and a second shot to gain control.

It is at this point the slaves rise up and Ashur leaves to quell the uprising. You use this opportunity to slip into the cure development lab and swipe it. There you discover the truth: the cure is an innocent baby girl, Marie. She is Ashur's daughter, miraculously born with an immunity to the Trog disease, which her scientist mother is carefully developing a cure from. When the cure is perfected, Ashur intends to spread the cure to everyone, allowing The Pitt to prosper without the need for slaves.

There you make the big choice: side with Wernher by stealing Marie and killing her parents, or side with Ashur by leaving Marie alone and confronting Wernher.

After a lot of thinking, I sided with Ashur. Part of it was roleplaying; as "Good Karma" as my character was, he couldn't in good conscience rob Marie of her parents, knowing too well the loss of his own. More than that, I couldn't foresee a good future under Wernher. Cure development under a skilled scientist with Ashur, or with Wernher, who hands her off to some emancipated slave woman with no idea what she's doing? I felt that either Marie would be harmed due to reckless development or nothing would come out of it. Furthermore, I didn't trust Wernher to be a good leader; I absolutely NEVER trust vengeful rebels to be better than the people they overthrow.

Does this mean I advocate slavery? Hell no. However, I'd rather reach a bright future through dark actions than have good actions lead to a dark future. As far as I'm concerned, The Pitt is doomed without Ashur and his family.
 

OtherSideofSky

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Tactics Ogre. Especially the PSP remake, because it removed the lawful/chaotic alignment business from stats and the choices now exist just as choices, without being tied to any arbitrary framework, all of them leading to equally valid and very different story paths. While some of them seem a bit black and white at first glance, they all lead to very complicated and morally grey scenarios, so that the option that would normally be labeled "evil" may actually save more people in the long run.

Here's a link to a short article describing the first major choice:
http://www.daveandjoel.com/?p=3701
 

Eveonline100

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Feb 20, 2011
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Kahunaburger said:
Witcher games and Planescape: Torment are to my knowledge the best implementation of moral choices in a WRPG. Planescape: Torment in particular lets you be evil, but evil in an intelligent, consistent, instrumental, and scary way. That game's pretty well known for being very hard to play through as an evil character simply because of what that playthrough requires you to do.

You've also got Atlus games - Devil Survivor had in my opinion one of the best implementations of choices in any game period, and Catherine's inscription of the order vs. chaos dichotomy into the context a normal relationship is sheer insane genius.
such as what does the game require you to do?
 

glodud

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May 26, 2010
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The bioware games I've played always have flawed moral choice systems. In KOTOR 1 evil is so much easier. In the mass effect games you need to choose to be either renegade or paragon from the start and stick with your choice or you won't be able to unlock the late game persuasion options.