Videogames, and foreign languages.

[Tohuvabohu]

I tend to have a certain bone to pick with games that feature real world settings, in foreign non-english speaking countries...

And that is, how the game handles language in a foreign location. While it's not a big deal by any means to me, it is a significant one.

I'm no language purist, but I like it when a game makes the inspired effort to maintain language as "foreign".

A good, and probably one of the strongest examples, is Yakuza. Those who have played the series (Or watched the ZP review of Yakuza 4) should know that it conveys a very strong japanese feel to it. And Yakuza 3 pretty much said Fuck the rest of the world and kept the entire spoken dialogue in Japanese w/subtitles. Great! I love it!

A good, but less strong of an example, is Uncharted 2. Later in the game Drake meets a new tibetan friend named Tenzin, who speaks tibetan. The game makes this very clear because whenever Tenzin speaks the subtitles say: "Tenzin: (speaks tibetan)" That's right, the game purposely doesn't tell you what the hell he's saying. Keep it that way!

Now onto the shit examples:

Pretty much any Ubisoft game
I've been a big fan of Splinter Cell since the first game in the series, and ever since the first game years ago, I've had a problem with how this game handles foreign language.
Simply put, it just doesn't. From the very first mission when you're in Georgia to much later on in the game in China. Everyone speaks english. Ugly, grating, horribly stereotyped english. I don't recall where I heard this, but the supposed "reason" behind this is that Sam is fluent in many worldly languages, so what we hear is what the people sound like to him. I know this might make a valid reason but... c'mon.

Another Ubisoft game, Assassin's Creed.
The first game was probably the most ridiculous in this manner, because of Altair. Absolutely every single person Altair spoke to in the historic middle eastern locations spoke nasty english in a thick swarthy accent, while Altair spoke like some northeastern american tourist. To me, this was literally laughable, I couldn't keep myself from rolling my eyes or snickering whenever Altair had a meeting with Al Mualim. It was extremely jarring and absolutely shattered immersion whenever Altair opened his mouth.
I was really hoping Ubisoft would handle this differently. But Ubisoft did not give a flying fuck.
Sure they did an amazing job recreating these historic locations, which could not have been a small feat. I just wish they handled the voices/language better.

Then came Assassins Creed 2, which stars the italian Ezio as the focus for the storyline.

Now this was a huge improvement over AC1 because Ezio actually has an accent! Now the main character speaks in the same horrendously forced and grating english in stereotypical italian accent, like the rest of the cast. Wonderful.
The bone I have to pick with this game is it's nonsensical rebounding between minimal italian and english in italian accents. Many times I'll hear something like "GRAZIE GRAZIE CANNOLI PASTRAMI!-" then immediately back to itenglish. What the hell was the point of that? Make up your mind, game! I know I said this is "no big deal" to me. But sometimes, it can even piss me off.

To me, this rather unimportant (from a gameplay perspective) part to a game matters quite a bit. In many ways, it helps me enjoy and appreciate a game more when language is approached like this. It really helps the atmosphere, makes the game self aware that it's taking you on a journey, and so on.

How do you escapists feel about this manner? Am I just nitpicking, or do you share similar sentiments?

 

[AthrunYamato]

The reason for having the genre of "foreign films" is because people don't want to read subtitles just to make the film feel more authentic. The same applies to games that have lots of dialog. The reason for this is because you spend so much time reading the subtitles, you miss the visuals going on.

 

[xsoenx]

entire spoken dialogue in Japanese w/subtitles. Great! I love it!




Another Ubisoft game, Assassin's Creed.
The first game was probably the most ridiculous in this manner, because of Altair. Absolutely every single person Altair spoke to in the historic middle eastern locations spoke nasty english in a thick swarthy accent, while Altair spoke like some northeastern american tourist. To me, this was literally laughable, I couldn't keep myself from rolling my eyes or snickering whenever Altair had a meeting with Al Mualim. It was extremely jarring and absolutely shattered immersion whenever Altair opened his mouth.
I was really hoping Ubisoft would handle this differently. But Ubisoft did not give a flying fuck.
Sure they did an amazing job recreating these historic locations, which could not have been a small feat. I just wish they handled the voices/language better.

Then came Assassins Creed 2, which stars the italian Ezio as the focus for the storyline.

in AC 1 Desmond ask why he here everything in english and Lucy tell him that the Machine translate it for him. But why they FUCK does it not do it in ac2???? (yes he speaks english but around 30% of what they say are italion Bullshit)

 

[Kekkles]

I know what you mean by authenticity, like ICO use their own made-up language in their game (so I've been lead to believe) and I've played many other games that do the same and it's superb! Same with real languages in games, it does add something (for me anyway)... but there is a massive portion of people who don't want to read writing down the bottom of the screen because they might miss something up top and some just can't read fast enough.

So you are nitpicking a little bit but your opinion is yours and you're allowed to have it.

Also, though, does this happen in other languages? Like say a French port of the same game, let's say Splinter Cell to roll with that theme, do the same people that talk in their stereotypical Russian/Chinese/whatever accent in English have a stereotypical way of speaking French too? That bit makes me wonder

 

[Kurai Angelo]

in AC 1 Desmond ask why he here everything in english and Lucy tell him that the Machine translate it for him. But why they FUCK does it not do it in ac2???? (yes he speaks english but around 30% of what they say are italion Bullshit)

Because the first and the second game use a different Animus machine? In the first you use the one at Abstergo and in the second you use the one at the Assassin hideout, and I'm fairly certain they say they're having problems fully translating everything. This is pretty much so they can make the characters swear in Italian.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

in AC 1 Desmond ask why he here everything in english and Lucy tell him that the Machine translate it for him. But why they FUCK does it not do it in ac2???? (yes he speaks english but around 30% of what they say are italion Bullshit)

The Animus 2.0 has translation software glitches. Most of it gets translated ok, but the occasional Italian still slips through.

This is, of course, because people like the TC complained that AC1 didn't have any accents or foreign languages (except, you know, the angry German and French that the guards spoke).

Honestly, though I do appreciate it when they take the time to put in foreign languages, its not really necessary. If you tell me the bad guys are Russians, I'll believe you. They don't have to have silly accents and speak bad Russian to convince me.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

The reason for having the genre of "foreign films" is because people don't want to read subtitles just to make the film feel more authentic. The same applies to games that have lots of dialog. The reason for this is because you spend so much time reading the subtitles, you miss the visuals going on.

ehh I dunno. I've seen a few foreign films with really impressive visuals, and the fact that the movie was 100% subtitled didn't prevent me from enjoying the visuals or keeping up with things happening on screen (Kung-Fu Hustle, Waltz with Bashir, City of God.)

in AC 1 Desmond ask why he here everything in english and Lucy tell him that the Machine translate it for him. But why they FUCK does it not do it in ac2???? (yes he speaks english but around 30% of what they say are italion Bullshit)

I remember that now. I guess the inconsistency is "proof" that this concept was kindof a throaway explanation to justify the english within the games.

I know what you mean by authenticity, like ICO use their own made-up language in their game (so I've been lead to believe) and I've played many other games that do the same and it's superb! Same with real languages in games, it does add something (for me anyway)... but there is a massive portion of people who don't want to read writing down the bottom of the screen because they might miss something up top and some just can't read fast enough.

So you are nitpicking a little bit but your opinion is yours and you're allowed to have it.

Also, though, does this happen in other languages? Like say a French port of the same game, let's say Splinter Cell to roll with that theme, do the same people that talk in their stereotypical Russian/Chinese/whatever accent in English have a stereotypical way of speaking French too? That bit makes me wonder

I do understand that some people just do not like reading subtitles, but I remember quite a few "inpsired" games featured full voice acting in multiple languages. Ninja Gaiden for example, lets you pick between english or japanese before you start a game. (I understand this takes up resources, but dammit some companies and games have done it!) Crysis also switched the entire enemy army into speaking actual korean, which was a really nice touch.

I'd like to know that as well. The thought of a french voice actor speaking french in a gutterchinese accent makes me really curious.

The reason why I brought this thread up is because I just made it to China in Deus Ex: HR. And I was quite surprised that many of the chinese citizens actually speak chinese. I liked it alot, and I was just wondering how others feel about this.

Honestly, though I do appreciate it when they take the time to put in foreign languages, its not really necessary. If you tell me the bad guys are Russians, I'll believe you. They don't have to have silly accents and speak bad Russian to convince me.

I understand what you mean. If there is at least some kind of an explanation that is somewhat logical, it wouldn't really bother me anywhere near as much.

For example, the seemingly endless mercenary army of Uncharted 2 were russians, and all spoke english in a thick russian accent. I'm more accepting of this idea, as cliche as it is, because I can imagine international world-traveling mercenaries needing to know other languages besides russian.

And speaking of mercenaries, I accept the PMC's in MGS4 speaking english for pretty much the same reason.

However, I just can't comprehend why street police in inconspicuous georgian city would be bantering in english. This is when it just kinda... irks me.

 

[TehCookie]

I'd rather have oddly placed English over a foreign language simply for the reason I can understand it. I normally don't mind subs, but subs in games just annoy me. Usually the subbing quality is really bad with tiny text that I can hardly read, and a terrible translation. Not to mention I usually play with my rats during cut scenes so I'm only half paying attention. If it's a game trying to set an artistic statement I don't mind it, but if it's just an average fun game I would rather not have it.

And just for fun: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention]

 

[krazykidd]

I agree with OP , i played onimusha 4 with japanese voices and it was awsome , im playing argrest war zero and there no option to put the voices in english an it's great . But i understand most people don't wan't subtitles , especially in a action game , which makes sense , especially if you are a casual gamer , or a person that plays alot but just for the action.

 

[Cazza]

I played ACII in Italian on my second play through. It added a whole new level of atmosphere to the game. I'm not bothered when all language is translated into the language I set the game to. I prefer to know the story then guess it and I hate reading subtitles. I want to play not read. What I really hate is accents from english speaking countries being done by another english country. Americans doing Australians etc. I feel that is lazy.

 

[CleverNickname]

It makes more sense for everyone to speak perfect English in a game (or movie) because then you can just tell yourself it's the translation of what the characters would realistically speak. (Which is, I believe, what the above-linked Translation Convention trope is about)

Unfortunately, general audiences aren't that smrt and need an accent to tell them "oh, he's foreign", even if that accent makes no sense (Russian, Italian, Arabic people speaking in accented English with each other).

But even if everyone speaks normal English, you get these smartasses (like Yahtzee) complaining how anicent Persians sound like British stereotypes or modern residents of Manhattan.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't - Accents break immersion, no accent breaks immersion, perfect foreign language with subtitles break immersion. Even plain English sometimes gets critisized when it's spoken by English-speakers in a future setting. Nobody wins, ever.

 

[Paul]

A lot of the time I prefer games to be in English, purely so I can be sure I understand everything. Assassin's Creed didn't really bother me, because it's one of the few examples of a game with large amounts of foreign language. If I get the choice of accented English or the original language (eg. Bad Company 2), I find myself going for the original language. I find it makes it easier to differentiate the teams in the game. Plus, it makes playing as the Russians feel a bit different, rather than just two different factions in the game.

You can also get the same effect with the Crash Time games on the Xbox 360. They're sold in Germany as Alarm für Cobra 11. If you play them with your console settings in English you'll get some rather poor dialogue in English. If you change your console settings to German, then you'll get the original voice-overs instead. I find this quite an interesting approach because then you can choose what way you'd like to handle the game. Despite owning none of the titles I've played all the demos numerous times, and I do switch between the two. The original German does feel much more immersive, but that may just be due to the quality of the English voices. They really, really are not amazing.

Sometimes, accented English can be annoying though. If it's too stereotypical then it almost feels like a parody of a foreign speaker than an actual representation of how someone from another country would handle such a language. I find myself agreeing with Tovuabohu on the Splinter Cell games. Having only played Double Agent and Pandora Tomorrow I can't reliably say anything, but I do recall the game relying on heavily accented English speakers, which felt a little bit confusing. In any situation I actually think the Crash Time games had a good idea, though it would be better if a menu in-game would let you select instead.