Warhammer 40k: How Blizzard is a cunning bunch..

[Therumancer]

The way I heard things was that the original World Of Warcraft began development as a Warhammer Fantasy computer game. Games Workshop was actually involved with it, however they later chose not to do it, but gave Blizzard permission to keep developing and release the game without the Warhammer trademarks.

Thus it can be said that Warcraft is, or rather was, Warhammer.

The inspiration for Starcraft is obvious, and seeing as there is apparently a good relation between Games Workshop and Blizzard it was probably done with their blessing, I have heard less about it's actual development history however.

There is a similar story behind "Fallout" where supposedly they began developing the game to be a computer version of GURPS with a post apocolyptic theme, but there was again a parting of the ways between the developer of the game and the company with the liscence so they changed things around.

As far as Starcraft being more serious, well I kind of got the idea that it was kind of a satire. Not just the cut scenes in the game, most of which definatly had some humorous elements, but also if you read the backstory on the Terrans and how everything got started in the game manual.

I always suspected that Starcraft as a liscense saw less development than could have otherwise happened because a lot of the backround was contrary to serious development and actually contrary to the vision some people who never bothered to read it got from playing the actual game.
>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[richard99th]

You know I don't really see the similarities between the Eldar and Protoss. Out of everything in Starcraft they're the most original.

However the Zerg and Terran are rip offs without shame.

The zerg maybe, but I thought the Terrans were a nice take on what Colonial types would be like in space. Actually, beyond the fact that they're space marines, they don't really have all that much in common with their 40K brothers. In 40k the Space Marines are basically dogmatic religious zealots, while in Starcraft the marines are good ole' boys (technical term) and rednecks.

As for the Protoss, that always bugged me. I mean, the Eldar are almost literally just elves in space, without their armor on you'd hardly tell the difference. At least with the Protess they went and designed an alien looking race, although the tech between the two is very thematically similar, that is all curves and shine and lights.

And yes, the zerg are rather unimaginative in terms of design. Although, I will give them a plus for at least having some character. While it's true that they are mostly mindless beasts, the intelligence that controls them, the cerebrates etc. most certainly do. Which, honestly turns me off to the Tyranids of 40k, who in my mind at least, become nothing but mindless cannon fodder with little pazzazz to them. (However I haven't actually seen much of them beyond what I saw in Dawn of War 2, so maybe a 40k player could clue me in as to if there's any notable Tyranid characters or if the swarm is all they've got to them?)

tyranids have some "special characters" in the table top game called old one eye and the red terror. (basicly the stuff of tough talking grisled space marine's nightmares)

the blantant rip offs go like this-

aliens-tyranids-zerg
starship troopers(book)-space marines-terran
LOTR elves-high elves-elder-protoss

 

[squeekenator]

Protoss and Eldar are very similar, although Protoss = Tau makes no sense whatsoever. For a start, the Tau came out afterwards. Protoss and Eldar are both numerically small elite races with magical powers and surprisingly high emphasis on melee for such a highly advanced race mainly because of tradition. They wear fully enclosed armour and are rather arrogant. They both use fancy high-tech warping technology to get their stuff to the front lines; Eldar have webways that deploy troops and Protoss have their building warp-ins. They can also sacrifice their most elite troops to summon hugely powerful monsters of doom and awesomeness.

They aren't as obviously similar as Terran = Imperium and Zerg = Tyranids, but the similarities are there and numerous.

 

[GreyEarth]

Yep, old news.

 

[Enosh_]

given that GW ripped off quite big parts from starship troopers, alien and dune for 40k and well most fantasy for WH, a WHF/40k fan kinda sounds hypocritycal when he complains about blizzard ripping off GW

althrough the new reaper unit in sc2 doesn't help blizzard to avoid the connections, but whatever

 

[Neosage]

given that GW ripped off quite big parts from starship troopers, alien and dune for 40k and well most fantasy for WH, a WHF/40k fan kinda sounds hypocritycal when he complains about blizzard ripping off GW

althrough the new reaper unit in sc2 doesn't help blizzard to avoid the connections, but whatever

I think it's the fact that GW were inspired by different things, books films whatever. Starcraft just seems to be inspired/copied whatever straight from 40k.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Archaeology Hat]

given that GW ripped off quite big parts from starship troopers, alien and dune for 40k and well most fantasy for WH, a WHF/40k fan kinda sounds hypocritycal when he complains about blizzard ripping off GW

althrough the new reaper unit in sc2 doesn't help blizzard to avoid the connections, but whatever

I think it's the fact that GW were inspired by different things, books films whatever. Starcraft just seems to be inspired/copied whatever straight from 40k.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Go back and look at what Tyranids looked like back in 1995(?) (2nd Edition Tyranids: http://www.members.shaw.ca/kuster/tyranid1.jpg). They didn't resemble Zerg at all in art style. They do now, after their 200X(?) remake. Before that the resemblance was cursory at best. Conceptually they're fairly similar... but theres only so much you can do with Hive-mind bug aliens really.

The Tau, the 40k race with the biggest resemblace to Protoss are a product of 2002, the adding of a new race.

If anything the Terrans resemble Imperial guard more than anything... at least it my experience, but hey.

Warcraft is another matter, though I doubt these days either side much wants protacted legal proceedings and they've probably worked it out amongst themselves.

 

[Altorin]

given that GW ripped off quite big parts from starship troopers, alien and dune for 40k and well most fantasy for WH, a WHF/40k fan kinda sounds hypocritycal when he complains about blizzard ripping off GW

althrough the new reaper unit in sc2 doesn't help blizzard to avoid the connections, but whatever

I think it's the fact that GW were inspired by different things, books films whatever. Starcraft just seems to be inspired/copied whatever straight from 40k.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Go back and look at what Tyranids looked like back in 1995(?) (2nd Edition Tyranids: http://www.members.shaw.ca/kuster/tyranid1.jpg). They didn't resemble Zerg at all in art style. They do now, after their 200X(?) remake. Before that the resemblance was cursory at best. Conceptually they're fairly similar... but theres only so much you can do with Hive-mind bug aliens really.

The Tau, the 40k race with the biggest resemblace to Protoss are a product of 2002, the adding of a new race.

If anything the Terrans resemble Imperial guard more than anything... at least it my experience, but hey.

Warcraft is another matter, though I doubt these days either side much wants protacted legal proceedings and they've probably worked it out amongst themselves.

Those legal proceedings were hammered out for warcraft before its release

 

[Starke]

There is a similar story behind "Fallout" where supposedly they began developing the game to be a computer version of GURPS with a post apocolyptic theme, but there was again a parting of the ways between the developer of the game and the company with the liscence so they changed things around.

With Fallout, the change was the result of Steve Jackson Games getting uncomfortable with the level of violence in Fallout and requesting that Black Isle discontinue the game.

 

[Iron Mal]

The units in Starcraft are very simmilar to those in Warhammer 40K (as many have already stated).

Terrans = Space Marines (in terms of looks) and Imperial Guard (just a bunch of guys with guns blowing who are expected to face the most powerful and terrifying creatures the universe can hurl at them)

Zerg = Tyranids (seemingly endless swarm of constantly evolving insect/reptile like creatures lead by a single, all powerful Hive mind)

Protoss- Eldar (arrogant, psychic, humanoid race who believe they are the last and best defence against evil and destruction and have elegant technology and a warrior based society lead by a council or conclave) and the Tau (both have blue skin and no nose)

All three seem to have shamelessly ripped off of 40K (and they have to a certain extent) but then again, 40K probably took these ideas from elsewhere as well (the idea of space marines vs bug-eyed aliens and space wizards is a cliche and a stereotype since it's been done so many times).

At the end of the day both Starcraft and 40K are good games and have interesting back stories so I don't see where the problem is.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Warhammer 40K still had a large amount of content before the video games. The table top game and books were (and still are) very popular.

Oh sorry I didn't mean to give off the wrong impression, I meant simply that they didn't have a straightforward VIDEO game to copy.

and the video game Space Hulk which came out before Warcraft: Orcs and humans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_(video_game)

Oops. Okay well, at least that game looked literally nothing like starcraft?

There was also this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Liberation].

Edit: And this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_gate] now I think about it.

Not that those games are very much like StarCraft, but I just wanted to throw them in there. And say that Dawn of War was not the first 40K game on the PC.

 

[L0max]

Blizzard have borrowed heavily in both Wh and Wh40k. Not so much in the world, but in the general aesthetics of both games. For that, I hope they had to pay GW something.

 

[GiantRedButton]

And yes, the zerg are rather unimaginative in terms of design. Although, I will give them a plus for at least having some character. While it's true that they are mostly mindless beasts, the intelligence that controls them, the cerebrates etc. most certainly do. Which, honestly turns me off to the Tyranids of 40k, who in my mind at least, become nothing but mindless cannon fodder with little pazzazz to them. (However I haven't actually seen much of them beyond what I saw in Dawn of War 2, so maybe a 40k player could clue me in as to if there's any notable Tyranid characters or if the swarm is all they've got to them?)

The Tyranids have the same thing, a hivemind that controls them, only a few higher tyranids can actually recieve orders from it, but they spread the hivemind's will with synapsis/psyonic power. This is very important in unit movement, as they only have limted range.
If the minor tyranids go out of range, they become mindless beasts, uncontrollable by the player. depending on your diceroll, they get faster and kill everything....or cower in fear.

The hivemind also gives their spaceships the order to mutate the tyranids in a way that will suit the next mission etc.
so they are pretty much the same.

 

[BrookM]

Andy Chambers now works for Blizzard, so you can expect this to go on ad nauseum now.

I do hope he kills Fargo Kosak.

 

[Cheesebob]

LOTR 'ripped off' Norse mythology.

Go figure

 

[Archaeology Hat]

LOTR 'ripped off' Norse mythology.

Go figure

Norse Mythology clearly ripped off Mesolithic Ideology, pfft...

 

[L0max]

As I said, the discussion needs to get away from the notion that Blizzard ripped off the Warhammer worlds, which are not too original themselves, but much more important, they ripped off a lot of the artwork or were at least heavily inspired by it. And the genera art direction is where the major effort of GW went into.

 

[Pyro Paul]

And i guess games workshop came up with the whole alien concept as well as space marines and orc's?

A few examples, not neccecerily the first apprearance of said things but they came b4 40k

Alien(the movie) 1979 was before warhammer 40k which came out in 1987, and i'll bet my right nut that ailen wasn't the first movie with aliens in it.

Star wars is from 1977, and the stormtroopers are sort of space marines i guess.

Elders are space-elves (sort of) I dunno if someone has launched elves into outer space b4 but elves are not a games workshop original either, same goes for orcs.

My point is that most fantasy/sci-fi could be called rip-offs of other fantasy stuff, don't make a big deal out of it.

there is a Really big diffrence between being inspired by something and Blatetntly ripping something off. Warhammer was Inspired by all of these things, that is true... however, they developed thier own design, look, and feel for everything they made.

yeah, Tyranids draw a lot of insperation from the movie 'Alien' but do the aliens in those films look identical to the tyranids? Hell no. a bulk of the Tyranid fighting force look absolutely Nothing like those aliens. only the warrior brood looks similar but even then there is such a large diffrence between the two.

now compare a Zergling and a hormagaunt
compare a Hydralisk to a Ravener
a Carnifex to a Ultralisk

it isn't 'insperation' it is damn near copy and past.
really, learn the diffrence because it is just stupid to say that WH40k Ripped off a book that was written in the 50s... inspired, yes... ripped off, no.

 

[Ushario]

Warcraft, the original RTS, was actually a game being licenced by Games Workshop.
Games Workshop pulled out, and Blizzard said 'fuck this, this game is awesome so lets just change some names and ship it'.

Bam, Blizzard hit it big time, Games Workshop missed out because they are tools.

 

[Rivana]

I was thinking the same thing myself at one point... They are so similar.. I think people have been killed for less... Not to mention how much GW charges for its little models... They should be rolling in the dough, they could handle the legal charges...

GW would run out of money far sooner than Blizzard would.