Warhammer 40k Observation

[Kevka]

Hey, since we're talking about Warhammer 40k anyways, can you guys recommend me some of the books from the Warhammer 40k universe? I'm trying to get into the series and I heard some if not most of the books are pretty good. What's a good starting point/better books in the series?

Ciaphas Cain: Hero of the Imperium is a great first read. Otherwise you can find anything written by Dan Abnett. I've also read a few Chaos-centric books (Blood Gorgons, by Henry Zou and Soul Hunter, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden) that were neat.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

And even funnier observations: The SM Chapters with non-white skin tones also happen to be the nicest ones from a humanitarian perspective. And honestly, I can't think of any non-white human/space marine character who isn't a pretty nice guy by 40k standards. I suppose the closet thing would be Horus and his "copper skin", whatever that is supposed to mean. I just assumed it meant he had a rockin' tan, which isn't necessarily evil, nor is it really a skin color.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Hey, since we're talking about Warhammer 40k anyways, can you guys recommend me some of the books from the Warhammer 40k universe? I'm trying to get into the series and I heard some if not most of the books are pretty good. What's a good starting point/better books in the series?

Ciaphas Cain: Hero of the Imperium is a great first read. Otherwise you can find anything written by Dan Abnett. I've also read a few Chaos-centric books (Blood Gorgons, by Henry Zou and Soul Hunter, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden) that were neat.

I actually would not recommend Ciaphas Cain as an entry point. Mainly because, if you read his books without any prior background of the universe, you completely miss the point of the satire in the stories (cowardly commisars, friendly inquisitors, etc.)

 

[StarCecil]

What exactly are the chances of clear "races" as we know them existing some 38,000 years from now?

 

[Kevka]

I actually would not recommend Ciaphas Cain as an entry point. Mainly because, if you read his books without any prior background of the universe, you completely miss the point of the satire in the stories (cowardly commisars, friendly inquisitors, etc.)

I will disagree with your disagreement. The books are *really damn good*, and I feel like the footnotes and pre- and post-chapter write-ups keep you up to speed on the "true colors" of the setting (gunmetal-grey and gore-red).

Also, the brevity and comical style of Cain's books is sorely missing everywhere else in the bleakness that is the 40K setting. You should start with the only interesting character that's come out of the "official" fiction in the entire history of the setting.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What exactly are the chances of clear "races" as we know them existing some 38,000 years from now?

Pretty good...interstellar travel became difficult, generally impossible, for tens of thousands of years after humanity had spread throughout the galaxy, leaving populations isolated...you have groups that have evolved into new types of humans, different races are to be expected.

Hey, since we're talking about Warhammer 40k anyways, can you guys recommend me some of the books from the Warhammer 40k universe? I'm trying to get into the series and I heard some if not most of the books are pretty good. What's a good starting point/better books in the series?

Depends what you mean by "good". If you want decent sci-fi, I'd recommend Eye of Terror by Barrington Bayley or Pawns of Chaos by Brian Craig (better known as Brian Stableford). A bit more actioney is the Space Wolf series by Bill King, also Farseer...after he quit, they gave the Space Wolf series to people who had no idea what they were doing, I'd not recommend it. The previous 3 authors are known outside of GW circles, mind.

For more action and heroism I'd recommend the early Soul Drinker and Grey Knights stuff, and Daemonworld by Ben Counter. Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe or Lord of the Night by Simon Spurrier are also very good.

Later on, BL tended to get unknown authors writing mindless action stories and sticking their logo on cause they knew it'd sell. On the other hand, Dan Abnett has written dozens of books for BL (his first actually has a decent story), and he's quite good at mindless action and Mary Sue characters.

I'd not really recommend the Cain books. He's a one joke character, spread over several novels (though the author can write, and shows it occasionally)...cheap Flashman rip-off, with the things that actually made Flashman interesting removed.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I actually would not recommend Ciaphas Cain as an entry point. Mainly because, if you read his books without any prior background of the universe, you completely miss the point of the satire in the stories (cowardly commisars, friendly inquisitors, etc.)

I will disagree with your disagreement. The books are *really damn good*, and I feel like the footnotes and pre- and post-chapter write-ups keep you up to speed on the "true colors" of the setting (gunmetal-grey and gore-red).

Also, the brevity and comical style of Cain's books is sorely missing everywhere else in the bleakness that is the 40K setting. You should start with the only interesting character that's come out of the "official" fiction in the entire history of the setting.

I know they are good, but I feel some of that impact is lost when you don't have a frame of comparison. Cain is so interesting BECAUSE he's such a radical departure from the norm of the setting. But if the person has no idea what the norm is, then CC is going to paint them a VERY inaccurate picture.

If I had to pick a starting point, I'd go with...

The Horus Heresy (SPESS MEHREENS. Also, it basically fills in everything you need to know about the background of the Imperium)

Gaunt's Ghosts (pretty much THE definitive Imperial Guard stories, IMO. Also probably the best written books on average in the canon.)

Eisenhorn (way way on the darker end of the spectrum, but it gives you probably the best look in the Inquisition that you are going to get. Also, very good books in general).

In fact, I'd almost consider Gaunt's Ghosts and Eisenhorn to be required reading to properly appreciate Cain. At the very least Gaunt, as they follow a similar set up (Commissar lead, Imperial Guard support characters). Its that transition from one to the other that makes CC so funny.

 

[Rapamaha]

all dem humies bleed red

 

[Nouw]

In the grim darkness of the far future, all of humanity are English!

 

[SonicKaos]

If you read the Imperial Guard codex even, they show plenty of diversity in their ranks. It all depends on what planet they come from. Space Marines are harder to tell since they generally wear helmuts, but Guardsmen don't wear full face masks.

Plus I mean... you could paint their skin any colour you wanted to really...

 

[Axolotl]

It's really because of a few reasons.

Firstly sculpting the actual physical characteristcs of races on the scale 40K miniatures are would need to be a characture in order to be actually noticable.

Secondly 40K was created by a bunch of history geeks and as such almost all the human armies are based on some historical force they thought was cool, and most of these were from European history (not all which is why there's the Tallarn who are non-white and the Catachans are generally shown to have a significant number of black guys).

those are the biggest reasons anyway.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

[quote="Axolotl" post="9.318672.12994744]Secondly 40K was created by a bunch of history geeks and as such almost all the human armies are based on some historical force they thought was cool, and most of these were from European history (not all which is why there's the Tallarn who are non-white and the Catachans are generally shown to have a significant number of black

Basically this. The Imperium has a heavy influence from Roman/Greek styling.

And maybe this seems a little bit racsist but in this context its not really important. And in fact the main reason they are all samey white guys is part of the mythos of them. That they are all the same and have very little humanity/personality. They are killing machines, looks/ethnicity/personality etc are all features that are not important in the universe since they are just out there to kill.

 

[JesterRaiin]

I have noticed something a little strange just from my surface perception on the 40k universe and I would like to have a question about it answered. I have noticed that ALL citizens of the Imperium of Man have been white European looking fellows.

Good Lord...

Maybe that's because in the grim, dark future of the 41st millennium, there is no place for procreation anymore. People are cloned. For the Emprah !

 

[Layz92]

In the grim darkness of the far future, all of humanity are English!

Technically they speak Gothic (High or Low depending how pretentious the character is being). They just speak English cos normal real world people don't know Gothic. Just being picky but it is an oft missed fact.

On topic, yeah they are largely white but there are a bunch of planets where there are other ethnicities. There is a Russian themed planet etc etc.

 

[FlipC]

Hey, since we're talking about Warhammer 40k anyways, can you guys recommend me some of the books from the Warhammer 40k universe? I'm trying to get into the series and I heard some if not most of the books are pretty good. What's a good starting point/better books in the series?

If you're truly starting at the beginning then the continuing Horus Heresy (starting with Horus Rising) would be a good first read. It'll act as a good juxtaposition between how things were meant to be in 31k compared to how things are 'now' in 40k and are written with little prior knowledge being required. I wish I could have read them without the foreknowledge of how things turn out.

Other than that this is a good time to jump into the 'fluff' as so many novels have been collected as omnibuses. Depending on what you like the Imperial Guards Omnibus will make an easy transition into the 40k universe which will lead to the Gaunt's Ghost sets. The Space Wolves set is a good grounding in both Space Marines and the Terran political situation. Yes Ciaphus Cain is well written, but as has been pointed out a lot of the humour derives from the contrasts; don't let that stop you though.

For views from the Chaos side Soul Drinkers probably requires less knowledge than the Dark Apostle (Word Bearers) or the Soul Hunter (Night Lords) set and unlike the latter two is available in an omnibus edition.

Contradicting Ordinaryundone I found that Eisenhorn (and then Ravenor) required more prior knowledge while at the same time introducing concepts that didn't feature elsewhere in quite the same way.

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

 

[Trillovinum]

What exactly are the chances of clear "races" as we know them existing some 38,000 years from now?

actually a lot higher.
If we're talking about so many worlds, many of which are inevitably isolated (or at least the great majority of people never leave the world) you'd get several different sub-species of humans that have adapted to their own environment.
This could manifest in differences in skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, length, muscle mass, or more internal changes like adapted digestive systems or bone mass.

Not to mention the social changes like different languages, customs, and technology.

 

[nat_401]

There are so many white faces in warhammer because its much more difficult to paint small models with dark faces than light faces. In painting minitures the challange is making people notice really small features on a really small model, thus painters try to make there models stand out and a common and effective method of doing this with human models is highlighting the face, if the face is dark people's eye's are drawn away from the face to other features but if the face is bright the eye is drawn towards it. Its just one of those funny aspcts about representing a 6 feet tall individual as a 35mm high model, just like all women in 40k have MASSIVE boobs, because if scalled to a realistic size no one notices that the models are female
Its realy that simple, the whole 40k world was built off painting minitures, these minitures are the original ispiration for all character models in the compter games, since the real models have white faces, this is mostly carried over to the virtual models.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

In the grim darkness of the far future, all of humanity are English!

Technically they speak Gothic (High or Low depending how pretentious the character is being). They just speak English cos normal real world people don't know Gothic. Just being picky but it is an oft missed fact.

On topic, yeah they are largely white but there are a bunch of planets where there are other ethnicities. There is a Russian themed planet etc etc.

then educate yourselves!

Sa hunds ni beitiþ,Þái wulfos beitant.Sa þiudans saíhviþ,Sa skalks ni slepiþ.

i seriously doubt they speak gothic. Imperial Gothic is the name. It would be funny for them to speak the oldest known germanic dialect in the year 40k