Warhammer 40K - Tau ( Little info please! )

[Dectomax]

Well, I'm currently running a 1000pt Tau army that looks a little something like this:

Spoiler: Tau army list

Commander Shas'el
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Bonding Knife, Smart missile system, multi-tracker
112 Points

2xCrisis Suits
Missile Pods x2, Plasma Riflesx2
134 Points

2xBroadsides
Smart missile system, multi-tracker
150Pts

3xStealth Suits
Fuison Blasterx1 Burst cannons x2, Shas'vre w/Bonding Knife
135 Points

12xTau Firewarriors
Shas'ui w/Bonding Knife, Devilfish w/Multi-tracker and Disruption Pod
230 Points

12xTau Firewarriors
Bonding knife, markerlight
125 Points

12xKroot Carnivores
112 Points

This has been working well for me, even the fact I use it more as a gun line, than a mobile army. I've got a lot of questions as to why I use so many Firewarrior's, many people saying they should sit in the devilfish because they're useless and for objectives only.

I don't understand that? They seem like a pretty solid troop choice - BS3 ( hits on a 4+ ) with a Markerlight chucked in BS4 ( Hit on 3+ ) and the pulse rifle is a ST5 weapon, so it wounds on a 3+ against most units. Couple that in with the 30" range and it's a pretty good gunline unit. Not to mention it's 4+ save, which is still better than most armies standard unit choice.

So why do people critique them? I know they suck in close combat, but that's the reason you keep them out of it?

So, what are your opinions of them, having either played them, or played against them?

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Aww I was expecting fluff and I got crunch.

To contribute...uh...just looking at the stats they look a little on the expensive side for what you're actually getting to be fielding lots of them.

Basic infantry are just that basic. They're supposed to hold the line not be all around super heroes. They're supposed to be cheap and fragile (yeah, yeah I know tell that to the space marines) and supported by vesicle/elites/fast attack

If those infantry of yours get bogged down by enemy elites or combat specialists they will just phone it in and you'll have a 350 point hole in your army.

350 points is 2 leman russ battle tanks to put that into perspective.


Personally I dislike tau because biologically they appear very similar to the Necrontyr.....

 

[Dectomax]

Aww I was expecting fluff and I got crunch.

To contribute...uh...just looking at the stats they look a little on the expensive side for what you're actually getting to be fielding lots of them.

Basic infantry are just that basic. They're supposed to hold the line not be all around super heroes. They're supposed to be cheap and fragile (yeah, yeah I know tell that to the space marines) and supported by vesicle/elites/fast attack

If those infantry of yours get bogged down by enemy elites or combat specialists they will just phone it in and you'll have a 350 point hole in your army.

350 points is 2 leman russ battle tanks to put that into perspective.


Personally I dislike tau because biologically they appear very similar to the Necrontyr.....

No fluff for you good sir!

I understand that they're basic infantry - but even then, with ST5 guns they can also hammer vehicles if they get a decent role. They are a little expensive - Hell, I could get a few more Crysis suits, for the point cost! But With the Stealth suits bouncing 'round and at the very least causing glancing hits on vehicles( Making the vehicle immobile if I recall ) I can just clean them up with Broadsides.

 

[SckizoBoy]

No fluff for you good sir!

I understand that they're basic infantry - but even then, with ST5 guns they can also hammer vehicles if they get a decent role. They are a little expensive - Hell, I could get a few more Crysis suits, for the point cost! But With the Stealth suits bouncing 'round and at the very least causing glancing hits on vehicles( Making the vehicle immobile if I recall ) I can just clean them up with Broadsides.

What happened with renovating your Dark Angels/planning your Imperial Guard armies?

Anyway, your list looks solid, but it just doesn't have enough speed to it. And I think you're trying to do too much with your elite units, and I mean that individually. I'd kit the whole load of XV22s with fusion blasters (maybe one plasma rifle) and all of your XV8s with burst cannons, that way they have set roles in battle and be pretty good at them (and weapon diversity is such that they can multitask if required). Also, with the XV88s, with them, I'd question the necessity of fusion blasters in the first place. The range on railguns is monstrous and in 1000pts, your enemy is only going to have two AV13+ vehicles at most (if that) and with two TL shots, even with your enemy sneaking from cover to cover, at some point, something will explode. So you've got too much firepower out of the blocks to be able to deal with the weenies.

I'd recommend ditching the XV22s and invest in more XV8s or one Devilfish to give your army some maneuvrability with respect to claiming objectives.

IMO this will do well against Tyranids, IG, some Marine lists (i.e. non-Assault Marine/Biker based lists), Necrons, and maybe Chaos Daemons. But it will fail miserably against Dark Eldar (their vehicles are so damned fast that they won't really care if you shoot them down, and if they tote a webway portal, you're buggered), Eldar (their transport is still a beastly thing and Fire Warriors will die to Guardians in CC let alone any of the Aspect Warriors), and Orks (true you've got a lot of guns... but I don't think you've got enough, hence the need for more burst cannons).

Hope that helped...

 

[Dectomax]

No fluff for you good sir!

I understand that they're basic infantry - but even then, with ST5 guns they can also hammer vehicles if they get a decent role. They are a little expensive - Hell, I could get a few more Crysis suits, for the point cost! But With the Stealth suits bouncing 'round and at the very least causing glancing hits on vehicles( Making the vehicle immobile if I recall ) I can just clean them up with Broadsides.

What happened with renovating your Dark Angels/planning your Imperial Guard armies?

Anyway, your list looks solid, but it just doesn't have enough speed to it. And I think you're trying to do too much with your elite units, and I mean that individually. I'd kit the whole load of XV22s with fusion blasters (maybe one plasma rifle) and all of your XV8s with burst cannons, that way they have set roles in battle and be pretty good at them (and weapon diversity is such that they can multitask if required). Also, with the XV88s, with them, I'd question the necessity of fusion blasters in the first place. The range on railguns is monstrous and in 1000pts, your enemy is only going to have two AV13+ vehicles at most (if that) and with two TL shots, even with your enemy sneaking from cover to cover, at some point, something will explode. So you've got too much firepower out of the blocks to be able to deal with the weenies.

I'd recommend ditching the XV22s and invest in more XV8s or one Devilfish to give your army some maneuvrability with respect to claiming objectives.

IMO this will do well against Tyranids, IG, some Marine lists (i.e. non-Assault Marine/Biker based lists), Necrons, and maybe Chaos Daemons. But it will fail miserably against Dark Eldar (their vehicles are so damned fast that they won't really care if you shoot them down, and if they tote a webway portal, you're buggered), Eldar (their transport is still a beastly thing and Fire Warriors will die to Guardians in CC let alone any of the Aspect Warriors), and Orks (true you've got a lot of guns... but I don't think you've got enough, hence the need for more burst cannons).

Hope that helped...

Alas, I pondered upon either Tau or Imperial Guard and chose Tau. The Dark Angels overwhelmed me - I managed to unpack about a quarter of the things for them ( Discovering some of the old 2nd ED Grey Knight Termies ) and I just thought it would eat up way too much time and money.

After checking through the stats - I actually came to the conclusion that the Tau would make a great gunline army and only really decided on the suits for taking down vehicles and anything that got too close. The Tau's JSJ ( Jump, shoot, jump ) rule is pretty damn awesome.

I wanted to make sure my stealth suits would be able to shoot something and decided on the burst cannon's purely for that reason ( I believe they can still Glance an AV12 vehicle? ) and be able to mop up with the fusion blaster.

I was pondering whether to drop one squad of fire warriors and use two squads of 6 instead and bring a few more XV8's but I'm not sure. Once this army is painted and actually finished and I've had the chance to test it properly, I might make a few changes depending!

 

[SckizoBoy]

Alas, I pondered upon either Tau or Imperial Guard and chose Tau. The Dark Angels overwhelmed me - I managed to unpack about a quarter of the things for them ( Discovering some of the old 2nd ED Grey Knight Termies ) and I just thought it would eat up way too much time and money.

Awwwwwwww, all polished/re-painted, that'd been a bitchin' looking army! Ah well..

After checking through the stats - I actually came to the conclusion that the Tau would make a great gunline army and only really decided on the suits for taking down vehicles and anything that got too close. The Tau's JSJ ( Jump, shoot, jump ) rule is pretty damn awesome.

Huh... I'm going to have to look that up... bear with me a sec...

...

Must be missing something here... (probably the old Fleet rule... *shrug*)

I wanted to make sure my stealth suits would be able to shoot something and decided on the burst cannon's purely for that reason ( I believe they can still Glance an AV12 vehicle? ) and be able to mop up with the fusion blaster.

Nah, AV11 at most, since they're S5, though it's the three shots that I'm interested in. With four of them leering at an infantry unit during the shooting phase, you can bet most scoring units will be running a few minutes later. If you run with the XV22s, I'd keep the burst cannons and use them to keep enemy infantry units occupied (when they get shot at, they'll have more staying power), and then give the fusion blasters to XV8s, sure it'll be more expensive, but they're more suited to the job, I think.

Also, all non-Shas'O XV8s must have three battlesuit/support systems, so my typical load out is a burst cannon, missile pod (or fusion blaster) and shield generator.

I was pondering whether to drop one squad of fire warriors and use two squads of 6 instead and bring a few more XV8's but I'm not sure. Once this army is painted and actually finished and I've had the chance to test it properly, I might make a few changes depending!

Oooo, mini-maxing, how old-fashioned?! =P Problem being you risk getting overwhelmed, though prodigious use of the XV22s should negate that risk. Still, truth be told, I put little to no stock in Kroot, so I'd replace them with more Fire Warriors. Thirty-plus Fire Warriors with mutually supporting arcs of fire does make for a deceptively strong gunline.

Enjoy...

 

[Dectomax]

Alas, I pondered upon either Tau or Imperial Guard and chose Tau. The Dark Angels overwhelmed me - I managed to unpack about a quarter of the things for them ( Discovering some of the old 2nd ED Grey Knight Termies ) and I just thought it would eat up way too much time and money.

Awwwwwwww, all polished/re-painted, that'd been a bitchin' looking army! Ah well..

After checking through the stats - I actually came to the conclusion that the Tau would make a great gunline army and only really decided on the suits for taking down vehicles and anything that got too close. The Tau's JSJ ( Jump, shoot, jump ) rule is pretty damn awesome.

Huh... I'm going to have to look that up... bear with me a sec...

...

Must be missing something here... (probably the old Fleet rule... *shrug*)

I wanted to make sure my stealth suits would be able to shoot something and decided on the burst cannon's purely for that reason ( I believe they can still Glance an AV12 vehicle? ) and be able to mop up with the fusion blaster.

Nah, AV11 at most, since they're S5, though it's the three shots that I'm interested in. With four of them leering at an infantry unit during the shooting phase, you can bet most scoring units will be running a few minutes later. If you run with the XV22s, I'd keep the burst cannons and use them to keep enemy infantry units occupied (when they get shot at, they'll have more staying power), and then give the fusion blasters to XV8s, sure it'll be more expensive, but they're more suited to the job, I think.

Also, all non-Shas'O XV8s must have three battlesuit/support systems, so my typical load out is a burst cannon, missile pod (or fusion blaster) and shield generator.

I was pondering whether to drop one squad of fire warriors and use two squads of 6 instead and bring a few more XV8's but I'm not sure. Once this army is painted and actually finished and I've had the chance to test it properly, I might make a few changes depending!

Oooo, mini-maxing, how old-fashioned?! =P Problem being you risk getting overwhelmed, though prodigious use of the XV22s should negate that risk. Still, truth be told, I put little to no stock in Kroot, so I'd replace them with more Fire Warriors. Thirty-plus Fire Warriors with mutually supporting arcs of fire does make for a deceptively strong gunline.

Enjoy...

Indeed, they would have looked pretty awesome - after about a years worth of work!

The Jump, shoot, jump rule allows Crisis suits and to move shoot and then in their assault phase, move/jump back out again. Pretty useful.

The Stealth suits were actually going to be my vehicle hunters - Hence the fusion blaster, the range is 12" I think, so I'd rather have the Stealth suits that close than my XV8's! Plasma has a longer range and means I can switch my Crisis suits between infantry and vehicles, whilst jumping them around the map. The two separate suits are actually a unit with the commander. I list them separately because it makes them cheaper than a bodyguard unit.

I'm not really sure with the kroot - I had them as being more of a tar-pitting unit than anything else. So I might drop them and get another squad of six firewarriors and a Crisis suit. Depending on points.

 

[Blobpie]

The tau are coming out with a new codex soon (i believe early 2012)

But just a note, your missing marker lights. Marker lights can give your warriors BS 4, so then you actually have a chance to take out the opponents army before he reaches you.

(you'll need alot) I suggest giving your stealth suits marker drones.

But hey what do i know, i play Blood angels and imperial guard (and necrons soon)

 

[Dectomax]

The tau are coming out with a new codex soon (i believe early 2012)

But just a note, your missing marker lights. Marker lights can give your warriors BS 4, so then you actually have a chance to take out the opponents army before he reaches you.

(you'll need alot) I suggest giving your stealth suits marker drones.

But hey what do i know, i play Blood angels and imperial guard (and necrons soon)

Indeed - I'm hoping they sort out the points cost of a few of our units and the BS skills of the Suits too!

I'm tempted by Markerlight's, I really am - but I'm not sure if I could fit them in points wise. If anywhere, they should definitely go on the stealth suits. Their BS3 annoys me...It'll also make vehicle hunting a little easier.

I wouldn't say Firewarriors are useless without a ML, but it might add another 1/2 hits in there...

 

[Blobpie]

The tau are coming out with a new codex soon (i believe early 2012)

But just a note, your missing marker lights. Marker lights can give your warriors BS 4, so then you actually have a chance to take out the opponents army before he reaches you.

(you'll need alot) I suggest giving your stealth suits marker drones.

But hey what do i know, i play Blood angels and imperial guard (and necrons soon)

Indeed - I'm hoping they sort out the points cost of a few of our units too...

I'm tempted by Markerlight's, I really am - but I'm not sure if I could fit them in points wise. If anywhere, they should definitely go on the stealth suits. Their BS3 annoys me...It'll also make vehicle hunting a little easier.

I wouldn't say Firewarriors are useless without a ML, but it might add another 1/2 hits in there...

But you gotta remember Firewarriors are rubbish in close quarters, and kroot have no armor save (unless you give em a shaper) so you will need as many hits possible if you hope to win.

And for the rumors on the new tau codex: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413056.page

 

[Dectomax]

The tau are coming out with a new codex soon (i believe early 2012)

But just a note, your missing marker lights. Marker lights can give your warriors BS 4, so then you actually have a chance to take out the opponents army before he reaches you.

(you'll need alot) I suggest giving your stealth suits marker drones.

But hey what do i know, i play Blood angels and imperial guard (and necrons soon)

Indeed - I'm hoping they sort out the points cost of a few of our units too...

I'm tempted by Markerlight's, I really am - but I'm not sure if I could fit them in points wise. If anywhere, they should definitely go on the stealth suits. Their BS3 annoys me...It'll also make vehicle hunting a little easier.

I wouldn't say Firewarriors are useless without a ML, but it might add another 1/2 hits in there...

But you gotta remember Firewarriors are rubbish in close quarters, and kroot have no armor save (unless you give em a shaper) so you will need as many hits possible if you hope to win.

And for the rumors on the new tau codex: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413056.page

Indeed - I've never actually got them into a position where they've been charged, yet. ( Thanks to devilfish maneuvering. ) But I get what you're saying. More hits can only be a good thing.

As before, my Kroot really are just a tar-pitting unit. If I see Dante or another hero wandering about - he's normally jumped on and hopefully caught there for a tun or two and my army can deal with the rest before turning their attention to him.

 

[McMouse]

All i can say after playing tau, is even though it supports using diversity in your units, i found that 3 hammerheads with sub-munitions 2 squads of suits with burst, flamer, multi-tracker, and the rest in regular troops, was the best, for a massive gun line, and sit back with the troops and tanks, then drop the suit in behind the enemy to mop up support units, cheesy? yes, effective? definitely.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Indeed, they would have looked pretty awesome - after about a years worth of work!

The Jump, shoot, jump rule allows Crisis suits and to move shoot and then in their assault phase, move/jump back out again. Pretty useful.

Like the Eldar Jetbike... sweet rule, that...

The Stealth suits were actually going to be my vehicle hunters - Hence the fusion blaster, the range is 12" I think, so I'd rather have the Stealth suits that close than my XV8's! Plasma has a longer range and means I can switch my Crisis suits between infantry and vehicles, whilst jumping them around the map. The two separate suits are actually a unit with the commander. I list them separately because it makes them cheaper than a bodyguard unit.

My apprehension is because you only get the one shot with the XV22s (since only one in three may take it, leaving the other two guys looking at their guns and scratching their heads), while you can TL on the XV8s (and buff them with the Shield Generator, though that can be a bit of a points drain). Though fair dos with the plasma rifles, pretty good load-out.

You're sounding a bit like me a few years ago now... I used to get really paranoid about how many anti-tank weapons I needed. Most 2000pt armies won't carry more than 2 AV13+ vehicles, so I think that your XV88s have got that more than covered. Still, the jump infantry aspect of the suits do give an extra dimension, but I have a niggling feeling of 'more dakka required'! -_-

I'm not really sure with the kroot - I had them as being more of a tar-pitting unit than anything else. So I might drop them and get another squad of six firewarriors and a Crisis suit. Depending on points.

They're fast-(ish) in combat, but their lack of an armour save always irks me...

 

[fix-the-spade]

So why do people critique them? I know they suck in close combat, but that's the reason you keep them out of it?

Because most people play Orcs, Astartes or Tyranids, so true ranged fire power is something of a foreign concept. Also, fire warriors are especially weak against opponents that can deep strike like Raptors or a Trygon, the best firing line ever goes ot the window if the enemy pops out right next to you.

Speaking of which, tanks!

The Hammerhead is a great main gun, 150-ish points for one so it's not cheap. But 72in range, AP1 and S10, or large blast S6 AP4. Against other vehicles they're pure evil. Plus two burst cannons that fire independantly so they're not bad against infantry either. That's before you get to Seeker missiles and flechette launchers.

I like the Tau tank...

 

[Dectomax]

Indeed, they would have looked pretty awesome - after about a years worth of work!

The Jump, shoot, jump rule allows Crisis suits and to move shoot and then in their assault phase, move/jump back out again. Pretty useful.

Like the Eldar Jetbike... sweet rule, that...

The Stealth suits were actually going to be my vehicle hunters - Hence the fusion blaster, the range is 12" I think, so I'd rather have the Stealth suits that close than my XV8's! Plasma has a longer range and means I can switch my Crisis suits between infantry and vehicles, whilst jumping them around the map. The two separate suits are actually a unit with the commander. I list them separately because it makes them cheaper than a bodyguard unit.

My apprehension is because you only get the one shot with the XV22s (since only one in three may take it, leaving the other two guys looking at their guns and scratching their heads), while you can TL on the XV8s (and buff them with the Shield Generator, though that can be a bit of a points drain). Though fair dos with the plasma rifles, pretty good load-out.

You're sounding a bit like me a few years ago now... I used to get really paranoid about how many anti-tank weapons I needed. Most 2000pt armies won't carry more than 2 AV13+ vehicles, so I think that your XV88s have got that more than covered. Still, the jump infantry aspect of the suits do give an extra dimension, but I have a niggling feeling of 'more dakka required'! -_-

I'm not really sure with the kroot - I had them as being more of a tar-pitting unit than anything else. So I might drop them and get another squad of six firewarriors and a Crisis suit. Depending on points.

They're fast-(ish) in combat, but their lack of an armour save always irks me...

Ooooh, this is news? From my understanding then - only one of the Stealthsuit models can fire per shooting phase? Or have I got that completely wrong? XD

Playing at 1000pts - I think I've got the Anti-tank load covered, hopefully. I just like to have enough of the explodey stuff to make sure! :')

I believe the Kroot get a cover save in Dangerous terrain and ignore it's movement hindrance? But really the only reason I have them is for meat shielding and tar-pitting any nasties.

 

[Dectomax]

So why do people critique them? I know they suck in close combat, but that's the reason you keep them out of it?

Because most people play Orcs, Astartes or Tyranids, so true ranged fire power is something of a foreign concept. Also, fire warriors are especially weak against opponents that can deep strike like Raptors or a Trygon, the best firing line ever goes ot the window if the enemy pops out right next to you.

Speaking of which, tanks!

The Hammerhead is a great main gun, 150-ish points for one so it's not cheap. But 72in range, AP1 and S10, or large blast S6 AP4. Against other vehicles they're pure evil. Plus two burst cannons that fire independantly so they're not bad against infantry either. That's before you get to Seeker missiles and flechette launchers.

I like the Tau tank...

I was thinking about using the Hammerhead...but a lot of people have said that broadsides are a little more effective? Maybe not in terms of firepower - but just general use.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

The problem I see with your army list is the same as the problems I see with every Tau army; you're gonna get raped in close quarters. Perhaps I just see that because I play Eldar. I guess that's a useless observation unless you want to switch armies, do Tau even have any particularly effective close-quarters units?

 

[SckizoBoy]

Ooooh, this is news? From my understanding then - only one of the Stealthsuit models can fire per shooting phase? Or have I got that completely wrong? XD

Oh, no, no, I just meant against big tank targets, only the fusion blaster will have any effect. And more shots = more results, hence chucking three XV8s into a list, each with a missile pod/fusion blaster (or variant combination) as they can truly multitask, then.

Playing at 1000pts - I think I've got the Anti-tank load covered, hopefully. I just like to have enough of the explodey stuff to make sure! :')

Yeah, my worry is that you've got too much anti-tank, and not enough anti-horde, though it is always difficult to gauge just how much of each you need. I don't envy you the decision making, there! =P

I believe the Kroot get a cover save in Dangerous terrain and ignore it's movement hindrance? But really the only reason I have them is for meat shielding and tar-pitting any nasties.

I guess... it depends on which scenarios you play. With typical amounts of cover, they'd be OK as they'd have a good cover save (+1, though dangerous terrain is still dangerous terrain to them! I think they don't have a penalty for difficult terrain).

*guh* Difficult, that... -_-

Why not screw all that and play Eldar, like me! XD An army for real... Englishmen! =P (Don't forget to wear a morningcoat, top hat and monocle! LOL)

 

[SckizoBoy]

I guess that's a useless observation unless you want to switch armies, do Tau even have any particularly effective close-quarters units?

Nope, only Commander O'Shovah (Farsight), who (and this is the reason I will never play Tau) is in possession of the ONLY power weapon in the entire Tau army list.

Having said that... rail rifles... always so damned hard to get rail rifles into a list, 'cos their great. SHOT! You're pinned... SHOT! You're pinned... SHOT! You're pinned... you get the idea. Why have good close combat units when it won't happen until turn six when the rest of the army's been shot half to death.

And nice to meet you, my fellow Farseer...

 

[Dectomax]

Ooooh, this is news? From my understanding then - only one of the Stealthsuit models can fire per shooting phase? Or have I got that completely wrong? XD

Oh, no, no, I just meant against big tank targets, only the fusion blaster will have any effect. And more shots = more results, hence chucking three XV8s into a list, each with a missile pod/fusion blaster (or variant combination) as they can truly multitask, then.

Playing at 1000pts - I think I've got the Anti-tank load covered, hopefully. I just like to have enough of the explodey stuff to make sure! :')

Yeah, my worry is that you've got too much anti-tank, and not enough anti-horde, though it is always difficult to gauge just how much of each you need. I don't envy you the decision making, there! =P

I believe the Kroot get a cover save in Dangerous terrain and ignore it's movement hindrance? But really the only reason I have them is for meat shielding and tar-pitting any nasties.

I guess... it depends on which scenarios you play. With typical amounts of cover, they'd be OK as they'd have a good cover save (+1, though dangerous terrain is still dangerous terrain to them! I think they don't have a penalty for difficult terrain).

*guh* Difficult, that... -_-

Why not screw all that and play Eldar, like me! XD An army for real... Englishmen! =P (Don't forget to wear a morningcoat, top hat and monocle! LOL)

Hmmm...this is true. Damn points limit. I don't actually think I have more fusion blasters spare...and I don't magnetize...but I think I might consider switching my stealth suits to fusion blasters and have them as dedicated anti-tank/anti-hero and use the Crisis suits as a flexible anti-armour/anit-infantry unit. This is at the expense of the Kroot for points though and also put six more firewarriors on the board ( points permitting )

Bah silly elder...I shall wear my top hat and monocle whilst fighting for the Greater good! :')