was hitler a great leader? bad leader?

[The_Echo]

It's undeniable that Hitler was a great leader, a genius even. He managed to boost the morale of an entire country from their lowest point, turned said country into a superpower, and did more than his fair share of conquering. In fact, had he done a few things differently (namely, not attacking Russia when he did, and doing the Holocaust after the war) he could have very well won World War II.

So yes, he was a great leader, but a bad person.

 

[Aurora219]

He was just fine at being a politician. It's when he dabbled at being a general that everything fell apart. He was a terrible general.

 

[Korolev]

He was very, uh, charismatic for his era. He promised the German people power and revenge and order and riches, and Germany at that time was in a very bad state.

He managed to inspire loyalty and he wasn't that bad an administrator.

However, during the War, Hitler was the one who paid no attention to logistics, who didn't order the Sixth Army to retreat from Stalingrad, who delayed the attack on Moscow, who prematurely declared war on the US (for no known reason), who failed to standardize german equipment, who sank billions of marks into super weapons (which, to his credit, worked but came far too late, so money not well spent). It was he who gave control of the Luftwaffe to his crony and incompetent friend and it was he who shouted down his wiser generals and insisted that all his impossible plans could work perfectly. It was Hitler who alienated his best generals and failed to listen to advice.

And it was Hitler's racist policies that drove the best particle physicists out of Germany, only for them to go to the US to help with the Atomic Bomb project.

And for that, I thank him. If Hitler was even a smidgin less arrogant, cocksure and full-of-himself, then WW2 might have ended differently. But thanks to his megalomania, refusal to accept criticism, short-sighted revenge complex and overbearing pride, the Nazis failed.

So Hitler wasn't that good a leader. He made many disastrous decisions for the German Army (good for us, bad for the Germans), particularly in regard to Operation Barbarossa.

 

[FaustCainus]

Saying 'hitler was a good leader despite the whole mass genocide thing' is a lot like saying Charles Manson was a good song-writer despite the whole Sharon Tate murder thing, or Ted Kaczynski was a good academic despite the whole bombing Airports and Universities thing.

Sure, as AWESOME as the Autobahn is, it doesn't make up for the whole 'HE ORDERED THE SYSTEMATIC MURDER OF 12 MILLION INNOCENT PEOPLE' thing.

Actually, you can say that about those people... If Hitler won the war we would be currently praising him for wiping out the jews, don't forget that is how good a leader he was. Lots of Germans didn't realize until the war was over and Hitlers propaganda stopped that what they were doing was wrong.

He made jews something to hate by blaming them for losing WW1 and rallying his people with it, then made them sub human so they could kill them. Don't ignore the charisma required to do this.

In sum; Good leader? yes; immoral? morality is a construct devised by higher powers; glad he lost the war? yes

He was very, uh, charismatic for his era. He promised the German people power and revenge and order and riches, and Germany at that time was in a very bad state.

He managed to inspire loyalty and he wasn't that bad an administrator.

However, during the War, Hitler was the one who paid no attention to logistics, who didn't order the Sixth Army to retreat from Stalingrad, who delayed the attack on Moscow, who prematurely declared war on the US (for no known reason), who failed to standardize german equipment, who sank billions of marks into super weapons (which, to his credit, worked but came far too late, so money not well spent). It was he who gave control of the Luftwaffe to his crony and incompetent friend and it was he who shouted down his wiser generals and insisted that all his impossible plans could work perfectly. It was Hitler who alienated his best generals and failed to listen to advice.

And it was Hitler's racist policies that drove the best particle physicists out of Germany, only for them to go to the US to help with the Atomic Bomb project.

And for that, I thank him. If Hitler was even a smidgin less arrogant, cocksure and full-of-himself, then WW2 might have ended differently. But thanks to his megalomania, refusal to accept criticism, short-sighted revenge complex and overbearing pride, the Nazis failed.

So Hitler wasn't that good a leader. He made many disastrous decisions for the German Army (good for us, bad for the Germans), particularly in regard to Operation Barbarossa.

Agreed.... heh, "thank you for being a douche, if you weren't you might have won"

 

[wasted space]

Great leader or greatest leader?

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

I think he was not a good leader really. Why? Under his leadership Germany lost the war.

 

[Dyme]

They put all the blame and extreme debts on Germany when Germany didn't even start WWI.

They didn't?
From what I know Austria wanted Serbia, some Serbian guy shot an Austrian guy, Austria wanted to declare war on Serbia, Russia wanted to protect Serbia, Austria asked Germany for help, and now the important thing: Germany said they will support Austria no matter what.
Austria owned Serbia, Russia declared war on Austria, Germany declared War on Russia, France on Germany (France and Russia were allied), Germany owned Belgium which was neutral to get to France, Great Britain declared war on Germany because they attacked neutrals.

If Germany had not said "Austria attack whomever you want" Austria would not have attacked.
Maybe it is not only Germanys fault, but mainly.

 

[Plazmatic]

so this is my first time creating a thread be gentle and didn't turn anything up on the search bar
so anyway i was walking through my college campus a few days back when i heard a heated debate between two people one of them was insisting that hitler was a good leader despite the whole mass genocide thing and the other person considered his opinion was worth as much as the cigarette but i had just crushed under my foot and refused to discuss it with him
saying that he cant talk to people that blind to reality. so anyway what do you think

well if any of you listened to your high school modern history teacher, then you would know that Hitler was not a great leader, only a good speaker, he took advantage of the times, and how the French blamed Germany for world war 1, and ruined their economy, he, and a lot of followers, were a loud minority, who's voice pretty much took down the vastly unpopular government at the time. Hitler also was not a good in any military stand point, since most of his generals did the work, and the only way the generals orders, which were usually good by a military stand point, got through, was if Hitler approved of them, and later on during the war, Hitler disproved of some very important orders, that would have allowed Germany to win world war II. Hitler didn't even directly help the economy, his "Vision" was carried out by generals, who decided when to attack and where, and wealth obtained from those places. Then from military production came a lot of the economic boost as well, which was obviously going to happen by demand, its the same thing that pulled the united states out of the great depression in the second world war.

 

[Axolotl]

He brought Germany out of the depression that was caused by... erm... whatever they called the UN type thing back then. They put all the blame and extreme debts on Germany when Germany didn't even start WWI.

You mean the Versailles Peace Conference? And how did Germany not start the war? They made the first attack by invading.

Besides which, helping your economy recover doesn't matter for shit when you leave a country with a worse economy, millio0ns of your own citizens dead by your own hand, divided in two and under the occupation and control of four hostile nations.

I mean fucking Honorius wasn't that incompotent.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

Hitler was actually a great leader, for his own people at least. He gave them jobs building the motorway during economic crisis, revived patriotism within germany, even through his 'nazi youths' he gave teens and younger children a feeling of being an important part of the country.

So as a leader, in that fact, he was great. Then of course you look at those who he deemed to be leeches off of his country, the gypsies and jews, and he roasted them.

 

[Axolotl]

Hitler was actually a great leader, for his own people at least. He gave them jobs building the motorway during economic crisis, revived patriotism within germany, even through his 'nazi youths' he gave teens and younger children a feeling of being an important part of the country.

And then got millions of them killed by starting an unwinable war. But hey at least many of the survivors got the joy of the Soviets being in charge.

 

[sirkai007]

In my opinion, he was a good leader with bad intentions.

Seconded

 

[Jedoro]

I won't ever say he was a good leader, because of the connotation of "good," but I will say he was a great leader. He turned a broke nation into a powerful war machine with some of the most advanced weaponry of its time.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

In my opinion, he was a good leader with bad intentions.

Much like pretty much every world leader known as "evil." He had to have been a good leader or else how could he have gotten that many people on his side? And actually, the Nazis pretty much ended the depression in Germany. Everything would have been great if he hadn't have decided to kill millions of people.

 

[Jumplion]

(I have not read the rest of the thread, so forgive me if there's any repeating)

Coming from a Jew with two grandparents that survived the Holocaust, I have done several reports on Hitler (mainly because I didn't want to do the standard Abraham Lincoln or Roosevelt or some tired out historical figure) and quite frankly I find him morbidly fascinating.

I recently came back from Berlin, very nice city I recommend it, and we visited a Labor Camp/Concentration Camp. Let me tell you, you don't understand how horrible the Holocaust was until you visit the site of it all. But anyway;

Hitler was a phenomenal speaker. If you've ever heard one of his speeches you'd know, he could captivate a whole audience with his speeches no matter the subject. He was able to get Germany out of the shit it was in after the Treaty of Versailles, and overall he helped the German people out of their own pity.

But he caused the Holocaust. He enstated the Gestapo headquarters, where the planning and preparing went in to create the Holocaust, how they'd build the Concentration Camps, how they'd execute them, how they would transport them, etc. Over 6 million Jews, or as I call them people, were killed along with 4-6 million (depending on the source) other "undesirables". In my mind, and I'm sure the majority of the world's, that is unforgivable, at least until history repeats itself...

Overall, we shouldn't look at Hitler as a supreme psychopath. Nor should we look at him as some "great leader" despite what he created. We have to look at him as a figure of history, respect his accomplishments, but acknowledge his failings and teach it to future generations. We should never forget what he did, but there's two sides to a coin, and if we don't understand why or how he came into power, or why and how he created the Holocaust, history will never learn and we will just go through it again and again and again.

That and he was attempted to be assassinated like, what, 15 times? Say what you will about him, that's a damn lucky bastard if I ever saw one...

 

[Felis Leo]

My sweet non-existent Lord, I have never seen such baffling ignorance pollute a thread like this.

Hitler was a terrible leader! Just because someone is good at giving speeches and can unite a country under a banner of racial superiority and hatred for other races does not make one a good or great leader. Leadership is judged by its results.

So what were the results of Hitler's leadership after WW2? Five million dead Germans; Germany split in half between the Allies and the Soviets for nearly half a century; 12 million people exterminated; and to this day, people still hate Germans across Europe for the unforgivable crimes they committed. This is what you people call "Great leadership"? When your country is totally devastated by Allied bombings, millions of your women are raped by revenge-crazed Soviets, and you lose more soldiers than all the Central Powers during WWI combined, and finally your country loses its sovereignty and is split in two, you cannot be called a "Good Leader" when you led your country to that.

Furthermore, those of you who say Hitler was a good leader discounting mass-Genocide fail to mention that all free speech was curbed, trade unions were eliminated, religious minorities (besides Jews) were targeted for persecution, and everyone had to become a slave to the state. Running your country like a common thug with millions of common thugs at your beck-and-call doesn't make you a good leader. It makes you a gangster.

And those of you who say he led his Nation to greatness (by re-militarizing the industry and confiscating businesses from political enemies most often), tell me, would you apply that same level of greatness to Kaiser Wilhelm? Would you apply it to Prime Minister Tojo? Men who were strong leaders, but ultimately led their countries to ruin?

At least after Napoleon was defeated, Europe still used his brilliantly-fashioned legal system, and the Louvre. What of Hitler's legacy remains? You can barely even mention the word "Nazi" in Germany now, and he is the most reviled dictator in history.

 

[Mutie]

Adolf Hitler was one of the greatest leaders our world has ever seen. I don't support his intentions and the acts of his government were atrocious; but the fact is, he dragged Germany from the depths of economic depression to become one of the greatest world powers, his name became known world-wide and he created and entirely new form of government. My great uncle was intelligence in the army and a scholar of history and literature; he says that, though Hitler's actions were abominable, he was a genius and we should always paid him the due respect for the sheer immensity of his tactical and political prowess.

Perhaps only the evil make good leaders... Had that man succeeded, the world would be a much different and a far more terrible place. Another will rise and, when the world is beaten down by these fake, commercial and cosmetic wars, we shall fall under the military power of a genius warlord. Only these days, genocide would be a lot easier.

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

Brilliant leader, he brought Germany out of the shit after the first word war. But he was a total prick.

Also guy above me ^^^^^ second paragraph is right.