Well I won't be buying the new Tomb Raider...

[Scars Unseen]

I'm going to wait for reviews. If the game has good gameplay, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't. I thought this was supposed to be simple?

 

[InfernalGrape]

What's the problem, bandits always rape women they got, it's just logic and truth

 

[Someone Depressing]

So, they're making her big tits small and her small personality big. That's a step in the right direction, and if the new American developers have taught us anything, it's that most of the steps America takes when remaking British classics are in the wrong direction.

So, I'm all for this. I don't see why people are considering it sexist. That's bloody stupid.

 

[Tomeran]

To the OP: Yes, you're overreacting.

I found that article interesting. And well, not really unfair to women. Instead, I found it realistic.

I doubt Lara Craft was born dual-wielding pistols and with a hard-arse attitude. In fact, someone with an attitude like that has to have some sort of special past. And personally, I'll connect more with someone that has a realistic transformation into a hard character then someone who just is born as a hard character and remains a hard character.

I can see why fans of the old oversexualized near flawless Lara Craft might find the new more normal Lara Craft unappealing, but I cannot for my life understand why people would prefer the older flawless oversexualized Lara Craft. Or why toning down the oversexualized elements would be considered sexualism! Its like saying "gay people are okay, you shouldnt think less of them" is homophobia because you admit there's a problem! Its ridicilous, and a classic case of overthinking.

As for the "weak and helpless"-hints: I dont really see this as hints of sexualism either, or hints that women in general are weak and helpless. I could see this scenario just as easily apply to a man(except the attempted rape), because ending up in that situation would be EXTREMLY strainful for just about any person on the planet, no matter their gender. Lara is new to that kind of situation, and has to adapt to survive. It may not be a original origin-story, but its one that works and that humanizes the protagonist in a good way.

Finally, in regards to the island thugs attempting to rape her: She's an attractive woman stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere, captured by a bunch of thugs. If these thugs arent part of some evil organisation with strict disciplinary codes being watched by a senior officer or something, its a fairly -realistic- assumption that these arses will try to exploit their prisoner. It also goes a long way to demonize the antagonists, as rape is generally considered one of the worst acts a living person can do to another.
Is it dark? Yes. But so is life.


I wasnt really interesting in picking up this game before, but reading that article, I might have changed my mind.

 

[Pearwood]

People take Tomb Raider a hell of a lot more seriously than Tomb Raider takes itself.

 

[velcrokidneyz]

The way I took it was that it shows her as the rich pampered girl who never had to deal with any survival situation let alone kill anything whether it be human or animal. I see it that you have to watch over her and protect her as she gains her new skills and experiences. I don't see it as demeaning.

 

[pandorum]

All this over a mature subject matter? why? most people know about the age ratings games have, this sort of thing happens all the time in movies and TV, if gamer's want video games to be seen in a mature light and taken seriously then this sort of subject is bound to come around. If it offends do not buy it or watch it or *****, just leave it alone, you can not have games be taken seriously without serious subject matter take place in them.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

A couple of hours ago a friend of mine directed me toward this article in Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

I've been following the recent controversy over the Hitman trailer, the one that inexplicably featured bondage nuns getting seven shades of holy water beaten out of them by 47. In my opinion, this description of Lara Croft is even more offensive to women than that.

In the Hitman trailer, overly sexualised women were being beaten up because we're supposed to want to kill them. They are, after all, attempting to murder the game's protagonist, moody anti-hero that he is. In a certain context it makes sense, and it's clearly the glamorisation of violence against scantily clad women that offends, rather than the fact that 47 kills women at all. If they hadn't been wearing fetish gear (or habits) and hadn't been dispatched in super slo-mo then there might have been less negative reaction. You know, if they'd been dressed like hardcore assassins rather than strippers...

Isn't this description of the "new" Lara Croft much more offensive to female gamers in particular, and women in general? It manages to imply that large breasts make a woman less human for starters. It also makes a point that gamers (who are ideally supposed to be projecting onto the characters they are playing) will want to "protect" her, because she's "more vulnerable." Yes, you make a woman more realistic by ensuring she's less sexually empowered and needs a lot more looking after by the (presumably target male demographic) gamers that play her. *sarcasm*

Is it just me that's a little disgusted by this? Fair enough, original Lara was a caricature, sexualised to the point of hilarity, and completely unsuitable as an aspirational model of womanhood. But she was at least able to look after herself. She was a bit of a badass, no denying, and that was something she had going for her. Men may have been more focused on her breasts, but the fact that she had an attitude was inescapable, albeit an attitude that occasionally spilled over into parody. In some ways original Lara was much more honest than this new, "realistic" Lara. After all, the protagonist in most games, male of female, is a ridiculously badass, fit, attractive, muscular specimen of humanity, who is perfect in almost every way. I know these aren't things we realistically aspire to, as I'm sure most gamers out there do. To believe that you could be exactly like these people, indeed to want to be exactly like these people, is clearly delusional behaviour. But at least they usually have some admirable personality traits, be it confidence, determination, etc... Original Lara was no different. Her body shape was literally impossible to achieve, but at least she wasn't just a pair of breasts bouncing above a hot-pants clad arse.

To aspire to be new Lara would be the pinnacle of insanity. Here is a young woman who is portrayed as being totally helpless and vulnerable. Yes, she learns to fend for herself. Yes, by the end of the game we can assume she'll be strong and independent with a badass attitude. But what does it take for her to achieve this? This wilting violet of a girl has to be subjected to more hideous torture and brutality than any of us are ever likely to experience. The implication of this is that the only way for a woman to develop an attitude and be able to look after herself is for her to undergo unspeakable hardship. And of course to have the big male ego of the gamer caring for her at every step. The fact that this hardship has to be rape as opposed to anything else is truly despicable.

Why couldn't we have a Lara we could try to identify with? I see no fundamental difference between one that men only play because they want to ogle her tits and one men only want to play because they feel the need to take care of the poor little girl. Both models of femininity are equally sexist in my opinion. And rape, seriously?

Am I just overreacting? Or is it a valid point? What do you all think?

No you aren't. You're absolutely right. This is...Horrible, quite frankly. It's totally ridiculous, and exactly the wrong turn the series should take.

 

[Khanht Cope]

A couple of hours ago a friend of mine directed me toward this article in Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

I've been following the recent controversy over the Hitman trailer, the one that inexplicably featured bondage nuns getting seven shades of holy water beaten out of them by 47. In my opinion, this description of Lara Croft is even more offensive to women than that.

In the Hitman trailer, overly sexualised women were being beaten up because we're supposed to want to kill them. They are, after all, attempting to murder the game's protagonist, moody anti-hero that he is. In a certain context it makes sense, and it's clearly the glamorisation of violence against scantily clad women that offends, rather than the fact that 47 kills women at all. If they hadn't been wearing fetish gear (or habits) and hadn't been dispatched in super slo-mo then there might have been less negative reaction. You know, if they'd been dressed like hardcore assassins rather than strippers...

Isn't this description of the "new" Lara Croft much more offensive to female gamers in particular, and women in general? It manages to imply that large breasts make a woman less human for starters. It also makes a point that gamers (who are ideally supposed to be projecting onto the characters they are playing) will want to "protect" her, because she's "more vulnerable." Yes, you make a woman more realistic by ensuring she's less sexually empowered and needs a lot more looking after by the (presumably target male demographic) gamers that play her. *sarcasm*

Is it just me that's a little disgusted by this? Fair enough, original Lara was a caricature, sexualised to the point of hilarity, and completely unsuitable as an aspirational model of womanhood. But she was at least able to look after herself. She was a bit of a badass, no denying, and that was something she had going for her. Men may have been more focused on her breasts, but the fact that she had an attitude was inescapable, albeit an attitude that occasionally spilled over into parody. In some ways original Lara was much more honest than this new, "realistic" Lara. After all, the protagonist in most games, male of female, is a ridiculously badass, fit, attractive, muscular specimen of humanity, who is perfect in almost every way. I know these aren't things we realistically aspire to, as I'm sure most gamers out there do. To believe that you could be exactly like these people, indeed to want to be exactly like these people, is clearly delusional behaviour. But at least they usually have some admirable personality traits, be it confidence, determination, etc... Original Lara was no different. Her body shape was literally impossible to achieve, but at least she wasn't just a pair of breasts bouncing above a hot-pants clad arse.

To aspire to be new Lara would be the pinnacle of insanity. Here is a young woman who is portrayed as being totally helpless and vulnerable. Yes, she learns to fend for herself. Yes, by the end of the game we can assume she'll be strong and independent with a badass attitude. But what does it take for her to achieve this? This wilting violet of a girl has to be subjected to more hideous torture and brutality than any of us are ever likely to experience. The implication of this is that the only way for a woman to develop an attitude and be able to look after herself is for her to undergo unspeakable hardship. And of course to have the big male ego of the gamer caring for her at every step. The fact that this hardship has to be rape as opposed to anything else is truly despicable.

Why couldn't we have a Lara we could try to identify with? I see no fundamental difference between one that men only play because they want to ogle her tits and one men only want to play because they feel the need to take care of the poor little girl. Both models of femininity are equally sexist in my opinion. And rape, seriously?

Am I just overreacting? Or is it a valid point? What do you all think?

No you aren't. You're absolutely right. This is...Horrible, quite frankly. It's totally ridiculous, and exactly the wrong turn the series should take.

Do some more research. Kotaku basically bait nerds for a living, and a lot of the firestorm about this is a case of Chinese whispers originating from their coverage.

Contrast this coverage:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/12/the-two-deaths-that-defined-tomb-raider/#more-111538

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/tomb-raider-throws-rape-assault-and-a-hostile-environment-at-lara-croft-to

With this:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-lara-croft-attempted-rape-will-make-tomb-raider-players-want-to-protect-her

The first two aren't entirely positive; but are at least giving some kind of ear to what the creators are actually trying to say and do.

http://www.gamesradar.com/controversial-tomb-raider-rape-scene-youve-already-seen-it/

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

A couple of hours ago a friend of mine directed me toward this article in Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

I've been following the recent controversy over the Hitman trailer, the one that inexplicably featured bondage nuns getting seven shades of holy water beaten out of them by 47. In my opinion, this description of Lara Croft is even more offensive to women than that.

In the Hitman trailer, overly sexualised women were being beaten up because we're supposed to want to kill them. They are, after all, attempting to murder the game's protagonist, moody anti-hero that he is. In a certain context it makes sense, and it's clearly the glamorisation of violence against scantily clad women that offends, rather than the fact that 47 kills women at all. If they hadn't been wearing fetish gear (or habits) and hadn't been dispatched in super slo-mo then there might have been less negative reaction. You know, if they'd been dressed like hardcore assassins rather than strippers...

Isn't this description of the "new" Lara Croft much more offensive to female gamers in particular, and women in general? It manages to imply that large breasts make a woman less human for starters. It also makes a point that gamers (who are ideally supposed to be projecting onto the characters they are playing) will want to "protect" her, because she's "more vulnerable." Yes, you make a woman more realistic by ensuring she's less sexually empowered and needs a lot more looking after by the (presumably target male demographic) gamers that play her. *sarcasm*

Is it just me that's a little disgusted by this? Fair enough, original Lara was a caricature, sexualised to the point of hilarity, and completely unsuitable as an aspirational model of womanhood. But she was at least able to look after herself. She was a bit of a badass, no denying, and that was something she had going for her. Men may have been more focused on her breasts, but the fact that she had an attitude was inescapable, albeit an attitude that occasionally spilled over into parody. In some ways original Lara was much more honest than this new, "realistic" Lara. After all, the protagonist in most games, male of female, is a ridiculously badass, fit, attractive, muscular specimen of humanity, who is perfect in almost every way. I know these aren't things we realistically aspire to, as I'm sure most gamers out there do. To believe that you could be exactly like these people, indeed to want to be exactly like these people, is clearly delusional behaviour. But at least they usually have some admirable personality traits, be it confidence, determination, etc... Original Lara was no different. Her body shape was literally impossible to achieve, but at least she wasn't just a pair of breasts bouncing above a hot-pants clad arse.

To aspire to be new Lara would be the pinnacle of insanity. Here is a young woman who is portrayed as being totally helpless and vulnerable. Yes, she learns to fend for herself. Yes, by the end of the game we can assume she'll be strong and independent with a badass attitude. But what does it take for her to achieve this? This wilting violet of a girl has to be subjected to more hideous torture and brutality than any of us are ever likely to experience. The implication of this is that the only way for a woman to develop an attitude and be able to look after herself is for her to undergo unspeakable hardship. And of course to have the big male ego of the gamer caring for her at every step. The fact that this hardship has to be rape as opposed to anything else is truly despicable.

Why couldn't we have a Lara we could try to identify with? I see no fundamental difference between one that men only play because they want to ogle her tits and one men only want to play because they feel the need to take care of the poor little girl. Both models of femininity are equally sexist in my opinion. And rape, seriously?

Am I just overreacting? Or is it a valid point? What do you all think?

No you aren't. You're absolutely right. This is...Horrible, quite frankly. It's totally ridiculous, and exactly the wrong turn the series should take.

so you'd prefer gaming to keep its wheels spinning a few more generations before we can tackle meaningful subject matters and real character growth.

No, I'd prefer the definitive staple for female characters becoming badasses to not be attempted rape.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

A couple of hours ago a friend of mine directed me toward this article in Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft

I've been following the recent controversy over the Hitman trailer, the one that inexplicably featured bondage nuns getting seven shades of holy water beaten out of them by 47. In my opinion, this description of Lara Croft is even more offensive to women than that.

In the Hitman trailer, overly sexualised women were being beaten up because we're supposed to want to kill them. They are, after all, attempting to murder the game's protagonist, moody anti-hero that he is. In a certain context it makes sense, and it's clearly the glamorisation of violence against scantily clad women that offends, rather than the fact that 47 kills women at all. If they hadn't been wearing fetish gear (or habits) and hadn't been dispatched in super slo-mo then there might have been less negative reaction. You know, if they'd been dressed like hardcore assassins rather than strippers...

Isn't this description of the "new" Lara Croft much more offensive to female gamers in particular, and women in general? It manages to imply that large breasts make a woman less human for starters. It also makes a point that gamers (who are ideally supposed to be projecting onto the characters they are playing) will want to "protect" her, because she's "more vulnerable." Yes, you make a woman more realistic by ensuring she's less sexually empowered and needs a lot more looking after by the (presumably target male demographic) gamers that play her. *sarcasm*

Is it just me that's a little disgusted by this? Fair enough, original Lara was a caricature, sexualised to the point of hilarity, and completely unsuitable as an aspirational model of womanhood. But she was at least able to look after herself. She was a bit of a badass, no denying, and that was something she had going for her. Men may have been more focused on her breasts, but the fact that she had an attitude was inescapable, albeit an attitude that occasionally spilled over into parody. In some ways original Lara was much more honest than this new, "realistic" Lara. After all, the protagonist in most games, male of female, is a ridiculously badass, fit, attractive, muscular specimen of humanity, who is perfect in almost every way. I know these aren't things we realistically aspire to, as I'm sure most gamers out there do. To believe that you could be exactly like these people, indeed to want to be exactly like these people, is clearly delusional behaviour. But at least they usually have some admirable personality traits, be it confidence, determination, etc... Original Lara was no different. Her body shape was literally impossible to achieve, but at least she wasn't just a pair of breasts bouncing above a hot-pants clad arse.

To aspire to be new Lara would be the pinnacle of insanity. Here is a young woman who is portrayed as being totally helpless and vulnerable. Yes, she learns to fend for herself. Yes, by the end of the game we can assume she'll be strong and independent with a badass attitude. But what does it take for her to achieve this? This wilting violet of a girl has to be subjected to more hideous torture and brutality than any of us are ever likely to experience. The implication of this is that the only way for a woman to develop an attitude and be able to look after herself is for her to undergo unspeakable hardship. And of course to have the big male ego of the gamer caring for her at every step. The fact that this hardship has to be rape as opposed to anything else is truly despicable.

Why couldn't we have a Lara we could try to identify with? I see no fundamental difference between one that men only play because they want to ogle her tits and one men only want to play because they feel the need to take care of the poor little girl. Both models of femininity are equally sexist in my opinion. And rape, seriously?

Am I just overreacting? Or is it a valid point? What do you all think?

No you aren't. You're absolutely right. This is...Horrible, quite frankly. It's totally ridiculous, and exactly the wrong turn the series should take.

Do some more research. Kotaku basically bait nerds for a living, and a lot of the firestorm about this is a case of Chinese whispers originating from their coverage.

Contrast this coverage:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/12/the-two-deaths-that-defined-tomb-raider/#more-111538

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/tomb-raider-throws-rape-assault-and-a-hostile-environment-at-lara-croft-to

With this:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-lara-croft-attempted-rape-will-make-tomb-raider-players-want-to-protect-her

The first two aren't entirely positive; but are at least giving some kind of ear to what the creators are actually trying to say and do.

http://www.gamesradar.com/controversial-tomb-raider-rape-scene-youve-already-seen-it/

I haven't read any of those articles, and I don't intend to. All I know is that once again, Rape is being used as a device to add shock factor to a female character in a game that really didn't need that kind of thing in it. There is no justification for showing such an act in this way. If rape is going to be put in a videogame (Or any media), It needs to be done in a way that actually adresses it in a tasteful, sensitive way, as opposed to the advertising device that it's being currently used as.

Also, why am I getting all these messages?

 

[Grey_Focks]

I probably won't be getting it, but mostly just because it looks more like an uncharted ripoff than a Tomb Raider game. Honestly don't see what's to get offended over, other than some poor wording and you citing a kotaku article of all things.

 

[Wanderhome]

+1 overreacting

You yourself say Laura is overly sexualized caricature, with only one thing going for her, a level or two in bad-assery.

So, it seems to me this "take" on her, is slightly less about her bust size and dual pistols, and slighty more about her journey toward being a veteran adventurer only perhaps with a less overly exploitive sexual aura of past games.

 

[Khanht Cope]

I haven't read any of those articles, and I don't intend to. All I know is that once again, Rape is being used as a device to add shock factor to a female character in a game that really didn't need that kind of thing in it. There is no justification for showing such an act in this way. If rape is going to be put in a videogame (Or any media), It needs to be done in a way that actually adresses it in a tasteful, sensitive way, as opposed to the advertising device that it's being currently used as.

Also, why am I getting all these messages?

Because you're spouting outrage without trying to inform yourself on what you're actually angry about?

Nice double-standard that these writers need to be attentive and informed before they cover this topic; yet all you should need to decry them as misogynists and slander their project is second-hand half-truths from tabloid-grade journalism.

 

[Fusioncode9]

There's more whining and pointless drama here than in high school. The game looks fun, so I'll be buying it. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Fishyash]

Looks pretty perilous.

Maybe in the next chapter of the reboot she will get breast cancer...

OKAY I AM SORRY!

Honestly though, it would be very engaging, but from seeing the demo I think it would be better if they turned down the peril a little bit. Maybe it's just me thinking these games are trying far too hard to be movies...

EDIT: On the 'rape scene', from what I've heard, it's just a bandit looking at her funny and then touching her breast, then BAM QTE and she kills him, traumatized (I am assuming) by the death.

And something is wrong with that... why?

You know what? I'm just gonna say this. I think killing is worse than rape. Killing someone is one of the worst things one human can do to another. I cannot believe people are apathetic about killing countless people in video games (plenty of times when it isn't a do or die situation) and then get up in arms about a rape scene.

 

[luke10123]

Lara was criticised about having large breasts and now people are calling it sexist to remove what was called an over sexualised character trait.

This, there's no way to win with some people.