Well Square, you finally did it... you killed Final Fantasy (A Rant)

[Foolery]

Oh boy, a thread on the internet about Square Enix 'killing' Final Fantasy. Pfft, that's original. Look, Square Enix isn't the Squaresoft of yesteryear. Hironobu Sakaguchi and company have moved on. Maybe try following Mistwalker's games. But personally, I'm digging what I've seen so far of XV. Every Final Fantasy is a different experience. If Square Enix feels more comfortable producing an action rpg, so be it. I'd rather have them focus on making a great action Final Fantasy than create a half-baked traditional turn-based system that they no longer seem to have an interest in. As for the 'boy band' cast, I'm fine with it. Hell, some might even consider it a bit of eye candy for the ladies. Noctis and his pals are certainly no Kratos or Marcus Fenix.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Spoiler

Those have to be the most normal looking FF characters I've ever seen, even Squall had that absurd gunblade.

In fact if it weren't for the slight animesque facial design I would have thought it a western game.

Uh... have you seen the weapons the main dude uses? A gunblade would look positively realistic compared to most of them.

Can you link me a picture?

Because this is the first time I've seen or even heard of Final Fantasy XV, and the only weapon in the picture while at a bad angle looks relatively like a tame gun.

 

[funksobeefy]

maybe the story is about a bunch of dudes? whats wrong with that?

 

[Adon Cabre]

[HEADING=2]XV is Just Kingdom Hearts[/HEADING]

Director Nomura Talks Similarities Between Final Fantasy XV
And Kingdom Hearts
​

The music, as in the piano's section, was very similar to KH's style? Not to mention the real time combat with what basically amounts to hack'n slashy keyblade work. I guess I might just buy KH III instead as it's sure to have more open world exploration than this linear progression.

 

[Charli]

This is why I keep to Kingdom hearts and the last final fantasy I enjoyed aesthetically was Nine.

The style as it remains right now is not to my tastes, it is to the Asian market though... so... not much we can do.

The overly pretty, flawless, uncannyvalley esque humanoids is popular over there.

Me? I like my characters with a bit of visual character.

(This is not to say the game won't be good, but one of my passions in life is designing characters, that's just me, I still LIKE FF10, if not the character designs)

 

[Snotnarok]

I thought Final Fantasy was about different areas and worlds, don't get me wrong I thought the last few I played were just bad story wise and with 13 being more cutscene than game I've no real interest in seeking out fun in their games much but...It does seem to be about trying new things in every game.

 

[faefrost]

I agree with the OP a very very little bit. The characters that we have so far been introduced to remind me a little too much of FF VIII which was probably my least favorite in terms of emo story and character models. Just a little too much bishonen going on there and here for my tastes. At least most of the other games in the series have managed to break that up a bit. For all of the overly pretty men and their gallons of hair care product they have normally mixed in a broad batch of bunny girls, kooky space princesses, chaste priestesses and outright morons to appease everybody. This current batch of characters does not leave me hopeful. But who knows maybe I will be surprised.

On a semi related note. In watching a teaser for the FF XIII Lightning Returns game, was I the only one that had to look twice, thinking we get to kick the ever living shit out of Cloud? Now that's a game I would fork over $59 for. "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!... now which button is /groinkick with heels"?

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

Ohhhhh you young whipper-snappers and your growing up in the late 90's/early 2000's. You think THAT'S a bastardization of your favorite childhood franchise? Try to imagine growing up in the late 80's/early 90's...back when Final Fantasy actually took place in fantasy worlds. Where knights actually looked like knights and weren't some guy that dressed like he just walked into his closet with the lights off, grabbed a bunch of random clothes, and walked out carrying a sword for some odd reason.

For us (well, me at least), you're about a decade late with this topic. Having seen what the original FF was like and watched it evolve from humble beginnings to what it is today, I can tell you that this really isn't that big of a change from what has become the norm for the series. I'd take t-shirts and leather jackets any day over the outfits in 8 through 10 (when I gave up on the series).

The sad truth of the matter was spelled out by shrekfan, here:

Have you seen the other Final Fantasy games? Particularly XIII, really, but past the very first few they've pretty much always been the "J-Pop brigade broing it up", even with the female characters. And I'd rather no female characters than a retreading of Lightning or Vanille, personally.

(Note to shrekfan: I'm just using your quote to help further my point, none of this is directed at you in particular.)

1 through 6 are the "classics" that I was speaking of. And while 6 will always been in my top 3 favorite RPGs of all time, it was the very start of the downhill slide of moving away from fantasy settings and into more "modern" settings. But if 6 was the peak from which everything began going downhill, 7 is where the slope becomes officially noticeable. In 6 you've still got a samurai that looks like a samurai, a ninja that looks like a ninja, a thief that looks like a thief, a wizard that looks like a wizard, etc. For the most part, all the characters had clearly defined classes and looked the part of those classes. The setting, however, was beginning to take a more modern twist.

Then 7 comes along and make's things even more modern. Hell, there's even a video arcade full of minigames stuffed in there. The game opens with hopping off a modern train to go bomb a factory for crying out loud. 8 said "screw fantasy all together, we're going straight-up modern-emo!" Seriously, go play FF8 again....every character in that game is 100% "I cut myself because it hurts so good" emo over one thing or another. And just like in 7: not a scrap of actual armor to be found on a character. 9 at least tried to get back to it's roots, jumping back towards a true fantasy setting and I respect it for that. But you wanna hear something that I shoulda put in that "Share Your Unpopular Oppinions" thread before it got locked down? FF9 fucking sucked. I'm sorry, but it did. I don't know why everyone thinks it's god's gift to the FF series, but I was so utterly bored with it that I stopped playing after the first disc. Maybe it's just because I grew up in a different age and this was finally my breaking point for the series, but I still say FF9 was the worst of the series, given that it was the only one up to that point that I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to finish. I got 10 for Christmas, thought it was alright...until you find out that it's literally impossible to lose against the main boss unless you kill your own party twice (due to getting a free re-raise buff at the beginning of the fight) but then I realized that the only thing I really liked about it was the Blitz Ball mini-game. I rented 10 part 2 and ended up taking it back about 3 hours later and I haven't touched an FF game since.

So in short: 6 was great, 7 was alright, Tactics (the original on the PS) was fantastic, 8 they started to lose control, 9 they lost their frickin' minds, and 10 they just said "fuck it". I refuse to acknowledge the existence of 10-2, since as someone who grew up with the series from the beginning I can tell you this: FF games aren't meant to have direct sequels.

The point that I'm getting at is that your plight - whether people want to argue against it or not - isn't anything new. For a lot of us that grew up with the series from the beginning, FF waved bye-bye to us a lllooonnnggg time ago.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Spoiler

Those are the weapons I'm talking about. Fairly extreme anime weapons.

Thats more like it.

Why the hell weren't they in first picture? Physically impossible weapons like that is one of hallmarks of FF design, alongside interesting character design.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Personally, I'm not convinced that XV is going to be the divine saviour of the series a lot of fans seem to think. It's pretty obvious at this point that development hit major snags at some point, given this game was revealed before the PS3 was even released, and it's now not going to be released until 2014. While delaying a game can be necessary for adding polish and refinement.

Oh dude this wasn't even polish and refinement. The game was something like %85 done and nearly ready to be sent off for printing when Nomura took a look at it and went, "Hmm...I don't really like this. Start over.". Nomura is the fucking cancer that has delayed both this game and KH3. He shit-canned a nearly done game and started over from the ground up. That Square even let him do this is prime evidence for why the company is like it is today; FF14 1.0 is another.

 

[NerAnima]

...So X-2 didn't do it, nor the MMO of XI, nor the retarded single player MMO of XII, nor the probably awful XIII and its sequels. So what you're saying killed the game franchise is an idea that you conjured up yourself without any affirmation from actual sources? From what I remember, Nomura did talk about having Stella and another female character as party members in the game. In any case, I'm not sure why not having a female party member would make-or-break a decision to buy the game... Maybe judgment is being passed too early.

Insert paragraph about unjustified claims of MACHOness and BROWNess even though the trailers kind of show that being not very true at all.

For me, I trust the Kingdom Hearts team well enough to not fuck up. I mean they did create the insanely awesome Kingdom Hearts franchise. Now that I think about it, there aren't that many female party members in that series either?

Then again, maybe I shouldn't sound too much like a fanboy so let's criticize for a bit. Something that would make-or-break my decision to buy a game is if the gameplay doesn't look particularly good. Though I do like the teleport spamming, which I'm waiting for a very good explanation as to how that works, the camera in the gameplay trailer seems to be quite awful. Notice that split second of instant zooming when the camera hits a wall or something. Then again, then again I heard that the team actually acknowledges that problem and are working to fix it. What also concerns me though is the talk about direct sequels for XV, and considering that Square Enix doesn't have the best track record of direct sequels and the game hasn't even been released? So yeah, there's that.

In the end though, there are still other Final Fantasies. There's that remake of Final Fantasy X, the latest installment of XIII, and that MMO XIV. I mean I personally don't care about most of them, but I just wanted to note that other choices do exist. But whatever.

Perhaps, although I am sincerely hoping that these are not our main protagonists, because they just don't have anything that's really eye-catching about them. Granted, Tifa and Cloud didn't have that either, so I could just be talking out my ass here. Also, yes, XIII was dreadful.
However, can I ask why people keep bringing up Kingdom Hearts? I understand that they are likely making this game, but the games were set up differently, as you usually play as only one character in KH, whereas in FF you had an entire team to go through. The protagonist may be male in FF, sure, but you usually have one or two females in your party at least.

In any case, I'm hoping that the world and enemies make up for it, as the characters look a little bland. Also, perhaps we could lay off the OP a bit, he did say it was a rant, and we all must let off steam somehow, yes?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Huh... you know I thought this was gonna be about final fantasy 13 becoming it's own franchise (they're making a final fantasy 13-3 for fucks sake.) Anyways I've never been a fan, but I did like how they would essentially make a completely different world and cast of characters every time. At least if you didn't like the game they flushed everything down the toilet and started fresh the next time and that at least gave it some variety. Now there's the chance of them showing up again. Personally this one looks a lot better than 11-13 did.

 

[JSkunk22]

Hating a game before it comes out, now there's something original and reasonable.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

Venerable series tend to lose their way and steer off course once they've been around for a while, especially with a series like Final Fantasy, where the objective is to make each game play differently from the last while retaining the spirit and themes of those past titles. I love turn-based RPGs, but Final Fantasy has done that to death, and since they really need this game to sell since XIII isn't printing money like previous installments, they're just basically going to make it play like Kingdom Hearts because JRPG fans will say things like "Look! This new Final Fantasy game plays like Kingdom Hearts! That is a series that I am also a fan of. Here's my money Square-Enix!" That's not a bad strategy, and it's certainly going to work, but you can't blame them for wanting to get away from turn-based combat and try something a little different. That's why I hated XIII so much; that shoddy combat system can basically be summed up as the developer all but saying "Look we're all out of ideas for turn-based stuff. Okay? Just go with it. It'll be pretty."

I don't really see the character designs in XV as being "macho." I see it more as Japan being Japan. Bishounen dudes with big swords will sell to anyone - female fans will think the pretty boys are hot and male fans will love their big swords and stereotypical attitudes. There will be female characters, but they too will be put into stereotypical archetypes. I can only imagine there will be a brooding woman with a rough past, a mysterious/gentle woman that the main character will be obsessed with, and some spunky, underage thing to bounce around like a toddler hyped up on sugar. Granted that Final Fantasy games have been narrative driven, but lets not pretend that they aren't all incredibly cliched. That said, this one will be every bit as narrative driven as the others.

You want to know which Final Fantasy really ruined the franchise, OP? The answer may surprise you. It's not XV. It's not even XIII or one of the MMOs... it's VII. VII itself is a pretty good game, but it's also where the series started to show a lack of substance in favor of flair. It also spawned FF fans that don't want a brand new, possibly just as brilliant and potentially more brilliant FF title than VII, but would rather see SE squander time and resources on making the same game they've all played dozens of times, but with purdier grafix. VII's narrative got even more cluttered when, upon seeing the public's demand for more VII-related games, SE decided to make three horribly mediocre spin-off titles. What concerns me most is Advent Children - an obnoxious movie about nothing which I personally hold responsible for the current state of Final Fantasy games. If you don't see/recognize it's influence, you're just choosing to ignore it. Just look at XV - the combat looks like it was ripped straight from that movie. Fan reaction to Advent Children pretty much proved to SE that they can make a visually dazzling game and they won't have to be arsed with writing anything worthwhile.

But I apologize, I have answered your rant with another rant. Do I think XV will be good? Not really, just based on what I've seen. But I'll have to play it for myself before I decide whether or not it will 'kill Final Fantasy' for me.

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

people wanted Final Fantasy to change, S-E did that, now Final Fantasy has changed too much and it can no longer be called Final Fantasy, and your complaining about that. honestly... I kind of wish it hadn't changed at all, I want the turn based combat or active time based, I want it to be story driven, I want it to be as it was all those years ago but be in HD like Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch. but S-E seems to hell bent on changing for the masses, that the franchise is out of touch with what made it so famous in the first place. hopefully S-E will take a step back, and readjust where they go with the franchise.

 

[Raioken18]

It doesn't look that bad.

Yeah with that pic I assume they are going for a Reservoir Dogs style pose. But the thing is, it doesn't need a female npc to be enjoyable, and usually the female playable characters in FF games are kinda just for fan service...

As for gameplay... I've never ever thought FF had an amazing battle system in terms of an RPG, it's mediocre and is in a pool with a ton of other mediocre games.

The thing I want to go well but are also worried about is what really matters in a FF game, the storyline. If they return to their oldschool storytelling 7-10 they will rake in the money. I just feel like 10-2 onwards have just been lost in terms of good storytelling. I found it really hard to care about the characters in FF12 and 13.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Have you ever thought, OP, that SOME of us might be getting really tired of unrealistically spiky haired kids with super unrealistic clothes? I mean, seriously, how long have we been doing this sort of thing with FF? It may not be the best character designs here but they still look a darn sight better than what we've had in the recent past.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Square killed my interest with FF12 and FF10-2, not to mention the whoring of FF7 there for a while, as of right now? I'd need to hear universal praise to get me to care there's a new Final Fantasy, Thankfully though, Atlus exists to fill the void

 

[00slash00]

I honestly though this was a joke. Not being able to play a female character was the last straw for you? really? I identify as female and I do prefer to be able to play as a female character, but it doesn't bother me at all if I have to play as a guy. I'm playing through The Last of Us right now, and I'm not sitting here in a fit of rage over the fact that I'm forced to play as a man. Why do you care so deeply about the number of females in the game? It's not like Final Fantasy is exactly known for its well written female characters. The majority of the time they have been little more than eye candy (I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt and assume this isn't what this is about)