Wet

[Kilgorn]

Well, Brutal Legend took me 3 days to complete (thus completed it the day it came out), but it can't be helped.

i beat in about 4, because i played it profusely, and to my sorrow it was lacking in depth like hard, or even any bosses, really it was just replacing boss fights with the RTS type battles. The only part i had to attempt twice was the final battle but even then i beat it in the same day

 

[Voltano]

Interesting article, Yahtzee. This reminds me of what I see in virtual world role players like in "Second Life" (SL) who just make some character concept...But never give anything else about the character. I like role playing and I see virtual worlds like SL or "World of Warcraft" as good conduits for role playing, yet I got so annoyed and bored with everyone making one-sided characters that it just turned me off.

 

[Seneschal]

Great points. We should actually take into account that Lara Croft was a good character for the 1996 era, and that her kleptomania and destructive tendencies are gameplay-inflicted (just playing realistic archaeology wouldn't be much fun). She also wasn't too violent or overtly homicidal (most TR1 enemies aren't human). Her later development followed the Hollywood action-heroine recipe for obvious reasons, and could hardly be called "development" at all - more like stripping down to the basics and adding crowd-pleasers.

The only other valid female character I can remember are Alyx Vance from HL2 and Yuna from FFX. Both transcend the female sidekick/love interest/damsel in distress role gracefully and don't fall prey to the Giant Tits Syndrome. Alyx, for instance, isn't exactly a top model, which makes sense considering her underground-rebel occupation, and Yuna is flat as a board and very very chaste. Mind you, even like that they could have easily become caricatures, but it's the smart way they're handled that makes the difference.

Now, I've heard good things about the PoP:SoT characterisation, but I haven't played it (yet). So how is this Farah special? What's so fantastic about her that made even Yahtzee judge her a realistic, well-fleshed-out character? I faintly remember him expressing regret that PoP3 Farah is a useless, faceless clone in comparison.

EDIT: Oh, dear God, just looking at "Lune" makes me roll my eyes like I'm having a seizure. It's instinctive, really - she doesn't just look like she made an EFFORT to objectify herself, but her looks are also fairly outdated ('80s, actually). Perhaps it's her story and development that counts, but the first impression almost telegraphs the thought of "we made up that character background in 3 minutes to justify butting in such a ridiculous character."

 

[Castratikron]

I wonder, is there any relation between this alleged octopus in one's head and the flying spaghetti monster

 

[JimmerDunda]

Well Yatzhee I would sympathize for you expect I think you misjudged a decent female character. Alicia Melchiott from Valkyria Chronicles. She was one of the better female protagonists recently and why I don't sympathize for you is because you road her off ass a non-caring badass in your review of the game, even though you were completely wrong.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Rubi, being a ***** doesn't make you a strong character.

Not to pry too personally, but I do wonder at what you look for when you date. To some, they go for the bitches-- not the spoiled, crying ones who think they're the greatest thing to walk the Earth, but the girls who keep themselves in strong control of themselves, are aware of what goes on around them, and have a hold on things whilst not being afraid to speak their mind. To most, this gives them a full-on label of '*****'. That sense of confidence, of control, that general attitude and presence is more attractive than any size jubblies hanging off their chest and ruining their backs -These bitches are strong characters - to that there is no doubt. I fear that what you've here elaborated is the chronic failing of people who might have heard about that attraction, on how much a ***** can be loved, but tragically and insipidly misunderstood the connotations therein of the word - they applied they wrong meaning, giving us the loose-tongued, scowly-faced, big-titted, asinine characterizations that are apparently under your skin this time, instead of the robust and capable characteristics that we long for.

 

[Seneschal]

Well Yatzhee I would sympathize for you expect I think you misjudged a decent female character. Alicia Melchiott from Valkyria Chronicles. She was one of the better female protagonists recently and why I don't sympathize for you is because you road her off ass a non-caring badass in your review of the game, even though you were completely wrong.

I think genre preference got in the way of that. If you cannot stomach anything remotely reminiscent of JRPGs, relating to the characters is next to impossible.

Most RPG fans manage to swallow their dislike for Eastern videogame conventions long enough to enjoy a great game; I had SERIOUS trouble ignoring the (personally) horrid Nomura artwork in The World Ends With You, but it still turned out to be a rare gem. Yahtzee, on the other hand, seems to have no interest in classical JRPG themes and storytelling, so I guess just ignoring the painful bits doesn't do it for him.

He established that early on, though - he's not Roger Ebert to have an approach from the audience's shoes, it's more of a personal overview.

 

[Tzatziki3301]

I was intrigued to see someone referenc Blue Dragon earlier. I don't like many JRPGs (despite being a huge Anime and Manga fan) but so far, BD is my current gen favorite. More power to you, and yes, BD has two superbly balanced female characters.

 

[XerxesQados]

?anyone who claims to be put off by tits is a joyless loser.

Yahtzee, I find that highly insensitive. I'm put off by tits because I'm an extremely joyful homosexual. =D

 

[Dooly95]

Well Yatzhee I would sympathize for you expect I think you misjudged a decent female character. Alicia Melchiott from Valkyria Chronicles. She was one of the better female protagonists recently and why I don't sympathize for you is because you road her off ass a non-caring badass in your review of the game, even though you were completely wrong.

While I haven't finished the game and don't know your definition of "decent" is, the impression that Alicia gave me was a two-dimensional character that got a bunch of personalities jammed into her at the last minute.

That other one, the tank driver whose name slips my mind seems like she had better characterisations.

As for this "review", yes, obvious points, brought along by the industry that likes to produce said characters for no fallbacks due to people (like me, and others) eating it up. But hey, if women can get freaky vampires, I can get my gravity defying boobs. I mean shallow characters.

 

[Tzatziki3301]

But hey, if women can get freaky vampires, I can get my gravity defying boobs. I mean shallow characters.

I hear Ninja Theory has been working on boob physics for a few years now. Maybe they won't be quite so 'gravity defying' anymore?

 

[randommaster]

Nicely written.

I have never seen a tough female character done very well. The only one who came near it was Lara Croft, but- as you mentioned- her vicious tendency to steal the eyeballs from your sockets didn't seem appealing to me.

I have to say I agree. My favorite girl in gaming is Samus, and she spends most of her ime in an armour suit. Why? because she has a rich backstory, how are you supposed to relate to someone you know nothing about? (For much the same reason I actually prefer Shadow to sonic.) It kinda helps that she's kickass to.

While I do agree that Samus is more to what the tough female lead should be like, Samus doesn't really count because her femininity is minimized because of her armor and the lack of any human features while she is wearing it. This might change now that Team Ninja is working on the next Metroid game, but it doesn't seem likely from early footage. While we recently have seen Samus kick ass in her Zero Suit, it's her Power Suit that defines her, not her gender.

The same could be said for Master Chief if his identity weren't confirmed. While the books do a better job of fleshing out the Spartans, they're still mostly about killing the things they've been pointed at. Also, pointing at the books is cheating abit if you're going to talk about video games.

For whatever reason, Sting seems to be able to write strong female characters. Riviera, Yggdra Union and Knights in the Nightmare all have strong female characters that hold their own in battle and the last two titles even have a girl as the main character. While Riviera and Yggdra Union have a girl get kidnapped, it's admittedly done by beings with god-loke powers, so there's some excuse for the distress the damsel has been put in. The games aren't perfect at this, but they at least give the girls either a back story or character development for you to understand why certain actions are being taken.

You have seen her armour, it's design is actually based on a styalised version of our muscles (that doesn't quite sound right but it's the closest i can get it). Anyway she's taken off her armour in most of the games, and it (mostlly) subtly shows her curves which is far more apealling then dime a dozen outfits some charechters wear. I see what you mean about team ninja, they could well bring out her feminen side will still being utterly kickass. I also get the suit defining her, but that's the warrior she's trained to be zero suit shows the human. As for the chief he's not excactly thee most...err... crud can't describe it.

And you lost me completely with that last paragraph.

If you haven't played any of those three games mentioned in the last paragraph, then it doesn't make a lot of sense. You should play at least one, if you're into RPGs, since they focus more on skill instead of stats.

My whole point with Samus was that in most pictures, aside from those on DeviantArt, feature Samus in her Power Suit and that is what comes to most peoples' minds when Samus is mentioned. While Nintendo certainly isn't trying to hide her femininity, it's never really a part of her story. She could have been a guy, and while that would take some of the uniqueness out of the character, the games would ostensibly stay the same. Samus has risen above trying to prove that she's a good as the guys, so far above that she is what people aspire to be. Her place in the Metroid universe is one that is above gender lines. She as an individual is recognized by an entire species of aliens as perhaps the most dangerous life form in the galaxy. She's proven herself time and time again, so, the issue of gender never really comes up at all. The reason I don't think tat Samus is the absolute best model for a female lead is the fact that her gender isn't a part of her character. Her gender only separates her from other action leads in the eyes of the players, not in the story. If they were to explore her back story when she wasn't always recognized as the top bounty hunter and the people she had top deal with, then we would have a female character that would be ideal to use as a guide for other female characters. As it stands, though, the issue of gender isn't really addressed in Metroid.

I would just like to say that I think Samus' character has been very well developed. While she is strong, she doesn't come across as invulnerable and the games do a good job of showing Samus as a person who uses their brains as much as their blaster. For a character with a gun strapped to her arm, she comes across as incredibly intelligent and level-headed. She's an elegantly developed character and the game industry would do well to have more characters like her.

 

[Chipperz]

Just wondering (it's come up a few times now in this thread, just not about this subject)...

What did people think of Ophelia from Brutal Legend? She's hot, smart, badass, has a decent backstory and isn't a complete cow to everyone she meets.

Spoiler

Sure, there's that part where she tries to kill Eddie and everything he's ever talked to, but that was all because of an honest mistake on Eddie's part, and I still wouldn't say it made her a *****...

Also, I can't say "no" to a decent goth chick.

 

[Slinker07]

I was hoping Yahtzee would bring Jade up from Beyond Good and evil. Since he "seems" to like that game. And for me is the best damn female character ever. The only other good once from games I've played are usally not the main character.

One unmentioned female character I really liked was Jeanette from Vampire: Bloodlines. Would be awesome to have her as a main character. An crazy, yet awesome looking Malkavian on the run. But perhaps I'm just a sick bastard ^^

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Some interesting points, but personally I think the problem is more the fact that naff writers seem to be churnig out arse-hole characters of both genders quite rapidly. It's feels to me that it's probably just a half-hearted appempt to appeal to the perceived lowest common denominator of gaming.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I read most of the previous posts and generally agree with yahtzee. Some characters that come to mind as good would be:

Jen Tate from Primal, Isa/Aurora from Black Sigil, Terra/Celes from FF6, Samus, Nariko/Kai from Heavenly Sword, Kisala/Lilika from Rogue Galaxy, Ayame from Tenchu, Aika/Fina from Skies of Arcadia, and Alice/Karen/Margarete/Shania/Koudelka from Shadow Hearts series.

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Rubi, being a ***** doesn't make you a strong character.

If you want to see a female lead done well, play Oni. Bungie made it in 2001 (before they went into their Halo frenzy), and I've honestly got to say that it is an amazing game. Go on, try it out.

 

[richtaur]

Keep doing your thing, Yahtzee! I'm extremely entertained.

 

[Logic 0]

When will writers learn how to write a competent female charecter without sufferng from "damsel in distress" syndrome or in a fun new twist becomeing Rubi?