WH 40k Your best general build
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This. And the dire avengers with exarch plus warlock. The warlock uses guide and doom which allows rerolls for both wounds and to hit. The dire avengers use bladestorm which gives them 3 shots a piece. 4 for the exarch with two catapaults. In a squad of 10 like i have you have 40 shots with rerolls to hit and wound. This can be mounted in a wave serpent to pretty much destroy any squad you want. Ive wiped terminators with this tactic. Its unstoppable.GamesB2 said:
True, but unless they're in a fast vehicle, there's little point in taking a transport for them. In two turns' movement, in a Land Raider, they can cover up to 36", but at the cost of the Land Raider being unable to fire (correct me if I'm wrong, but Machine Spirit doesn't work with Flat Out and you can't disembark moving faster than Combat Speed). Now, sure a Land Raider with Black Company passengers will scare anyone shitless, but you've chucked 500+ pts into one combat zone. Unless you commit to this move from the off (i.e. from Turn 1 movement), you'll never be able to pull it off effectively. In the meantime, your opponent can readjust his/her line and mass up against your other flank. If you've charged down the middle of the board, then a few weenies left behind will occupy a turn and they'll be spent pottering about for the enemy turn while your other units are being charged.thaluikhain said:Infantry don't suffer from rage when they are in transport vehicles.
IMHO, that's something you really need. Rage sucks
Black Company with jump packs can jump from combat to combat and can cover 42" in those first two turns. This lets them get to combat faster (if only slightly), but provides a better distraction since a hell of a lot more weapons can hurt them, whereas if they're in a Land Raider, your opponent won't bother and just turn all his/her guns on the rest of your army.
... unless I'm missing something fundamental here...
Well, the same could be said of any support-fire unit.GamesB2 said:
I'm inclined to say lucky dice there... what were the rolls like? Because mathematically:
DA's fire (assumed squad of 5 no Exarch): 10 shots, 6 2/3 hits, 3 1/3 wounds caused, 5/9 wounds unsaved
PF's fire (assumed squad of 5): 5 shots, 3 1/3 hits, 1 2/3 wounds caused of which 10/9 wounds rend, 5/54 unsaved wounds caused by non-rending, 20/27 unsaved wounds caused by rending
TS damage (assumed squad of 5): 25/18 unsaved wounds caused = average 1 fatality & 5/6 chance of passing the Pinning Test.
May have happened once but if it happens again, I'd be doubtful that your dice would save you again. So, how did it pan out?
How I used to play them was as Rangers and have them out on a far flank backed up by a Storm Guardian squad in a Wave Serpent, leaving my opponent with a decision: spend a few turns slogging it towards them and get counter charged by the SG's knowing they're not worth the effort to engage in CC; or try to ignore them and get confronted by the same SG's in the main engagement while the Rangers take pot shots at the loose units. For the most part, it worked since I had enough fast units who could provide support (jetbikes & noted Wave Serpent + squad). But then, I eventually thought: sod it, even as a 95pt unit, they're not pulling their weight and replaced them with a Guardian Defender squad with a ScatLas. Same cost, greater versatility (IMO at least).
I don't think that's right, but yeah, an awful lot of points...mind you, Land Raiders are made for deploying expensive units into combat.SckizoBoy said:
But I was thinking of a rhino or something. They can't assault directly from it, but it only costs 50 points and is useful to stop them running into a shooting gallery before you are ready to use them.
40?? Fairly sure Bladestorm only adds a single shot to the profile. So, 32? Since the Exarch's dual catapults are counted as a single Assault 4 catapult. Much as I like that idea, I find it restrictive unless the rest of the army are jetbikes. That entire load out (Farseer + Spirit Stones/Doom/Guide (otherwise you can't use both Doom & Guide in the same turn), 9 Dire Avengers + Exarch, Exarch Catapult & Bladestorm) costs 282 pts and can only really be used in a small number of contexts.BiscuitTrouser said:
Isolated combat - you can overwhelm a Terminator squad of up to about 7 no problem with that trick, three or four killed in shooting alone while the charge finishes them off. But this has to be an isolated combat, since the entire unit cannot shoot until the turn after next, during which they'll have to move on to the next combat. Any played will be sure not to leave so valuable a unit as 7 Terminators in such a position.
Extended combat - against a horde, but be sure you can win it (though Doom will put paid to most hordes) otherwise in the following (enemy) turn, they're open to being countercharged without the benefit of Doom, and Dire Avengers don't hold up all that well in combat.
So, that build is a great hammer combination, but that means you can't have an army that does anything else except cater to that tactic otherwise you'll fritter away units trying to hold up combat while they reload. Jetbikes, skimmers and Wraithlords, I guess... So, what is the rest of the army?
...
EDIT - now that I look back on it... that's not that expensive is it... *requires further thought*
S'probably why I don't use them as transports... I use them as just a tank support for infantry advances, or at least I used to, don't think I used them at all from last year onwards. Haven't the faintest idea why, seeing as how vehicles became a whole lot harder in 5th Ed.thaluikhain said:
35, fairly sure... unless we're still talking Blood Angels, in which case... Fast! Take them with Assault Marines, you get the Rhino for free and get a load more attacks out of the deal. Heh...(!)
Yeah, I don't use even razorbacks as transports, they make great light tanks.SckizoBoy said:
Oh, right, yeah, haven't been 50 points in years.SckizoBoy said:
But, if you have assault marines, may as well take jump packs. I just don't like rage things running around on their own, but death company is sorta cool.
I usually send in striking scorpians with a wraithlord to assault and back up the wave serpent to ensure the combat stays isolated. I run swooping hawks to harass tanks. And i have a pair of guardian support squads with shurikin mounted cannon. That firepower usually hits everything else while the hammerblow is dealt to the most dangerous unit on the table. Dark reapers are also present for long range fire support.SckizoBoy said:
He may not be the most powerful character, but I'm rather fond of my Shas'o with Twin-Linked Burst Cannons and a Plasma Rifle (with Multitracker, of course), joined by a full Drone squadron. I like to imagine he's equipped with an experimental advanced drone controller, directing the drones both as his bodyguard, as well as long range control when he needs to send them off into the battlefield.
Well, it does depend on the rest of the army. I'd generally take jump packed Assault Marines as well (1750 pts and everyone has a jump pack, except the seven terminators... -_- and a part of me really does not like Sanguinary Guards), though in some infantry based builds, taking Assault Marines in Rhinos is a very cost effective approach (180pts for ten models that can engage at 36" within two turns packing 30+ attacks? Not bad at all).thaluikhain said:
Well, rage has its uses, hit a flank with Black Company and they'll only move in one direction (i.e. the one you want them to) after they've beaten the crap out of whoever they've beaten the crap out of.
Nice build, though despite my love of Eldar, Dark Reapers are yet another unit I'm sceptical of. At 35pts/model, I'm still undecided about them. I'd rather take more Guardian Defenders and heavy weapons platforms (or another Wraithlord...). The core of my army is oddly symmetrical: two Farseers; two elite CC units ('Quins & Banshees); two units of Guardian Defenders; two squads of Guardian Jetbikes (who cause me no end of joy); and two Wraithlords. There're enough points for another unit or two depending on what I feel like (usually Fire Dragons in a Falcon), though as [user]GamesB2[/user] mentioned, Swooping Hawks and demolition packs make them a brilliant troll unit! And they just pip out the Warp Spyers (even though I love the Spinneret Rifle).BiscuitTrouser said:
Yeah, but luckily none of the guys I play against have worked out the "run around in circles" tactic yet, they're either close-combat nutcases like Orks or Khorne or 'Nids, or they're stand-back-and-shoot-y guys like IG tanks or Tau or Eldar or IG infantry. Or there's the Smurf player, but no-one likes him >.>thaluikhain said:Infantry don't suffer from rage when they are in transport vehicles.
IMHO, that's something you really need. Rage sucks
And that's why Deep Striking is a terrible idea, unless you have Vanguard Veterans, who can just charge in as soon as they land. Or maybe a Land Raider, if you have scouts everywhere...GamesB2 said:
For me my Ork Warboss Kaptin Titankilla, mega armour, attack squig, cybork body, kombi shoota/skorcha, plus a bodyguard of nobz either on a trukk or battlewagon.
The Kaptian here has done alot of amazing things.
Takeing the full brute of a warhound titan charging him, and next turn killing of da titan.
Killing a eldar panzy with shadowfield in 1 hit, after the foe rolled a 1 for the first 2+ save.
Butchering his way though necrons and eldar without dieing, while solo.
He has done alot of things, awesome things.
The Kaptian here has done alot of amazing things.
Takeing the full brute of a warhound titan charging him, and next turn killing of da titan.
Killing a eldar panzy with shadowfield in 1 hit, after the foe rolled a 1 for the first 2+ save.
Butchering his way though necrons and eldar without dieing, while solo.
He has done alot of things, awesome things.
Argh, I know, 200 points for 5 models, double handed weapons and no invulnerable saves?SckizoBoy said:
Sure, you've got assault 2 pistols for your HtH unit, great.
Vanguard assault marines cost little more than half the points, can take storm shields and meltabombs. Admitedly they don't get str 6 power weapons (the sergeant can have the same weapons as sanguinary guard), but they can use power weapons single handedly.
The models do look cool, though, though with mine I used DA robed veteran bodies, and tried converting more of their weapons to be used double handedly.
Or you're chaos, and you don't scatter. Lets you line up perfectly to unload combi-meltas into a tank, but avoid the terrible retribution of the enemy guns!MartianWarMachine said:
Or, you know, surprise your friends and startle your co-workers with twenty lesser demons charging out of the warp, unscattered, for the low, low prince of 260 points! I don't always cackle maniacally, but when I do...
And to wound. Chaplains make DCs re-roll failed wounds too.SckizoBoy said:
Fucking. A.
EDIT: Also, it's annoying me how you keep calling them Black Company. They're Death Company. And my use of land raider + DCs has never failed me so I dunno what you're doing wrong.
No way he did not kill a titan.... did he?Orks da best said:
U wood av aht least needid uh melta weapon or sumfing
With a big enough CC weapon and a little luck, you can kill super-heavies quite easily in close combat actually.verdant monkai said:
With a power klaw he is str 10 in close combat, he can punch though most armour quickly.verdant monkai said:
This was a very long time ago, probably a year by now so I don't remember the exact rolls, but I remember how the play panned out.SckizoBoy said:
I had pathfinders in a building at the far back with a squad of 4 Dire Avengers + Exarch covering the building on the left hand side, a terminator squad deepstriked and landed just behind the Dire avengers.
The pathfinders fired and killed two of their terminators, three wounds were rending, 3rd wound was saved on the veteran, a 4th wound was armor saved, dire avengers used bladestorm, killed off the remaining terminators, veteran saved again, then during assault phase I charged and finished off the veteran.
Still my pathfinders have saved my life a fair few times, there's only so many times an enemy HQ can make invulnerable saves.
Only time they were beyond useless were against imperial guard, artillery obliterated them easily, though my terrain wasn't the best either ._.