What are your thoughts on glue traps?

[Fargus]

Did you hear how they "officially" renamed fish as "sea kittens"? In case people were thinking about taking them seriously.

They're all in it for the publicity, not the animals. PETA actually used to get things done, but this publicity thing has gone to their head. That's what happens when one group like that gets too much fame and attention.

 

[s0m3th1ng]

IMO, it isn't nearly tortuous enough. The traps should include a hunk of cheese to wave in their faces and a taser to shock them periodically as they attempt to rip the soles from their dirty little paws. And a cat that just sits there and stares at it.
Fuck you mouse, you and your teeth that cut through car wiring like butter.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Way to miss my point, Paul....

You can rationalise killing them all you want, but attempting to justify what I consider torture is pathetic IMO.

Oh i more then get your point.

"I'm a Higher Being and must feel sorry for the less fortunate life forms that i coexist with! I HAVE PITY FOR THEM! SEE! I'M A BETTER LIFE FORM! LOOK AT ME! I'M GOOD!!"

but there is a big problem with your point.

You are Apart of Nature.
and Nature is not all Double rainbows and Bubblegum lollypops.

By all means, continue to take up your soap box in protest of 'inhumane treatment' of squallor filled pests that spread desiease, pestilence, and death. That consume the flesh of still living beings unable to defend themselves with no remorse or concern. That cause Pain, suffering, and dispare to countless thousands as they breed out of control and dominate local resources forcing many into squallor, poverty, and hunger unable to provide for themselves.

"oh, it musn't Suffer!" you say, when other rodents will not only kill injured kin... but also eat their flesh.

when ever your done trying to shill your mightier-then-thou routine and realize that Life, and Nature are a lot more gritty and dirty then your ivory towers Feel free to join the Rest of humanity.

 

[Pyro Paul]

P.S. Stop trying to empathize with animals like "imagine if you were ___". They DON'T feel or think the same way we do so it's a pointless exercise that will make you more upset than you should be over it.

They might not think to the same capacity as we do, but they certainly feel it. Mammalian nervous systems and reactions to pain are very similar.

Not true.

Suffering is a human condition caused by a cognative brain.
It litterally means 'To Bear'.

Animals, in this respect, are unable to truely 'suffer' as all pain to them is reactionary. a defensive reflex centered around the preservation of life rather then the preservation of a way of life.

Pain is just a chemical reaction.
it is the subsquent actions which occur because of it that speak tomes of an organism.

 

[Fargus]

but there is a big problem with your point.

You are Apart of Nature.
and Nature is not all Double rainbows and Bubblegum lollypops.

That has nothing to do with my point at all. Seems like it has flown over your head, again. The problem I see here is that you're using naturalistic fallacy arguments in order to excuse yourself for being unnecessarily cruel to other animals. Yes, nature isn't nice all the time but that's not an excuse to chuck a live mammal into your rubbish bin stuck on a sheet of superglue when the option is there for a mercy kill. You're just deliberately prolonging its misery, it's disgusting.

A cat may be "cruel" when toying with a mouse, but a cat does not know any better - it's only acting on instinct. It's not like a human who has the cognitive ability to recognise that something is in pain, yet deliberately prolongs it (and makes weak excuses for it). Hell, it's not even about the animal - it's your mindset. You can replace "rat" with "dog" and it'd be the same (that is the scary part). Do you really think it is mentally stable for someone to be that cruel to something, and dismiss it because "oh worse things happen in nature" ?

when ever your done trying to shill your mightier-then-thou routine and realize that Life, and Nature are a lot more gritty and dirty then your ivory towers Feel free to join the Rest of humanity.

This has absolutely nothing to do with nature and life being gritty. You're trying to paint such animals as close to objects as possible in order to justify your cruelty towards them. Your justifications for torturing animals are laughable.

Oh look, a dog. I am going to kick it because nature and life are gritty and dirty! Nevermind that it's a completely unnecessary act and the dog will feel pain from it. Same thing with throwing a live glue trapped animal into a rubbish bin (implying that you're treating the animal as an object, a piece of rubbish). The point of the matter is, there's a difference between getting rid of a pest and deliberately drawing out its agony. And your reasoning is that nature is not nice all the time? What a load of absolute tosh.

Not true.

What is not true? Are you denying that they feel pain, and deny that mammalian nervous systems are similar? Funny, that... I never said anything about the emotional component we humans take for granted. That said, it has been shown rats get depressed when their cagemate dies - so do dogs when their owner dies. You say all of it is reactionary but don't even consider the fact that something like a rat or a dog can be traumatised by such events and show it through unusual behaviour. They learn from such experiences.

Pain is just a chemical reaction.
it is the subsquent actions which occur because of it that speak tomes of an organism.

Pain is also an unpleasant experience, we strive to minimise it. Doing the same for animals because we know it's unpleasant for them too, and sympathise. It's called having empathy. I felt sorry for the animal in my situation because it was in a great amount of pain, and it was unnecessary for the animal to have gone through that. That it might have been a pest, in that context, is entirely irrelevant. The animal is no more or less deserving of a quick dispatch than any other - your arguments seem to imply that it is OK to do something like this simply because they exist.

And the way you kill something, and casually disregard how painful it is on the notion that "nature is cruel" speaks tomes of your personality. Seems like pointless cruelty to animals is your thing, and worse, you're trying to defend it.

 

[Fargus]

By all means, continue to take up your soap box in protest of 'inhumane treatment' of squallor filled pests that spread desiease, pestilence, and death. That consume the flesh of still living beings unable to defend themselves with no remorse or concern. That cause Pain, suffering, and dispare to countless thousands as they breed out of control and dominate local resources forcing many into squallor, poverty, and hunger unable to provide for themselves.

Yet none of these things are reasons to torture something to death.

I find it very humorous that you're trying to demonise the animals as much as possible, when none of it is actually their own fault (the reason rats are such an ecological pest is because of us, ultimately). Heck, the attributes you listed there remind me of a more destructive species of animal (you can guess this). Animals such as rats are doing what they do to survive, they can't think on the same cognitive level as us - meaning they have no concept of human ownership, or any ill intent for that matter.

It appears to me you lack a basic grasp of ethics in this situation, there's certainly no argument with getting rid of pest animals but your "method" of disposal is what I am questioning here (and it's not about the use of glue traps either, it's about how you dispose the animal of it). So yes, I am questioning the morality of doing such a thing, and questioning you as a person for it. That you're attempting to justify it based on a ridiculous naturalistic fallacy and demonising says enough for me. So, who is the real demon here - the rats, or you?

 

[Pyro Paul]

Not true.

So you deny that they don't feel pain, and deny that mammalian nervous systems are similar? Funny, that... I never said anything about the emotional component we humans take for granted. That said, it has been shown rats get depressed when their cagemate dies - so do dogs when their owner dies. You say all of it is reactionary but don't even consider the fact that something like a rat or a dog can be traumatised by such events and show it through unusual behaviour. They learn from such experiences.

Depression is a physical condition not an emotional one.

commonly, it is when a series of pathways in the brain close making diffrent path ways occur which in turn evoke diffrent reactions to given situations. as to the afactors behind what cause these pathways to close and the over all effect the detours have on the mind and body is still a subject to debate. However, that doesn't remove the fact that depression is a physical condition.

rats can feel depressed, but can it feel sad?

general answer no. to feel sad it has to be able to comprehend the gravity of actions.

however this goes into a much larger debate exspecially on the Pavlov effect and if it denotes cognative capability or is reactionary.

Pain is just a chemical reaction.
it is the subsquent actions which occur because of it that speak tomes of an organism.

And the way you kill something, and casually disregard how painful it is on the notion that "nature is cruel" speaks tomes of your personality. Seems like pointless cruelty to animals is your thing, and worse, you're trying to defend it.

Does it now?
and what does it say?

does it reflect the experience i've had in a medical ward and seeing some one infected with Plague?
does it reflect the an infectious 'rat bite' which hospitalized me for over a week when i was younger? Or the series of rather painful 'just in case' shots i had to have because of it?
does it reflect the fact that several people depend on my existance and well being?
does it reflect that the mental health of a particular girl is highly dependent on my good health?


Let it die.
it is a pest that spreads death.

it has done so through out history and does so up unto this day.

 

[Doctor What]

One of my co workers said to me that the "screaming" sound that we hear when mice get stuck on the glue traps is because as they try to get free they are tearing the skin off of their feet.

And he said that with a smile. I'll never look at him the same way again.

 

[Pyro Paul]

By all means, continue to take up your soap box in protest of 'inhumane treatment' of squallor filled pests that spread desiease, pestilence, and death. That consume the flesh of still living beings unable to defend themselves with no remorse or concern. That cause Pain, suffering, and dispare to countless thousands as they breed out of control and dominate local resources forcing many into squallor, poverty, and hunger unable to provide for themselves.

Yet none of these things are reasons to torture something to death.

I find it very humorous that you're trying to demonise the animals as much as possible, when none of it is actually their own fault (the reason rats are such an ecological pest is because of us, ultimately). Heck, the attributes you listed there remind me of a more destructive species of animal (you can guess this). Animals such as rats are doing what they do to survive, they can't think on the same cognitive level as us - meaning they have no concept of human ownership, or any ill intent for that matter.

It appears to me you lack a basic grasp of ethics in this situation, there's certainly no argument with getting rid of pest animals but your "method" of disposal is what I am questioning here (and it's not about the use of glue traps either, it's about how you dispose the animal of it). So yes, I am questioning the morality of doing such a thing, and questioning you as a person for it. That you're attempting to justify it based on a ridiculous naturalistic fallacy and demonising says enough for me. So, who is the real demon here - the rats, or you?

no, you see... I am Human.

i live through experiences, create rational judgements based off of them and have them subquently influence my behaviour and actions from there on forth. because my choices don't coincide with your beliefs does not make me 'a demon' 'evil' or 'immoral' as my values are placed in diffrent things which i set of a higher importance.

of which, i set the importance of my health above the 'comfort' of an animal that can neither understand nor appreciate such an action.

but, again, by all means... soap box and high horse.

 

[Fargus]

Depression is a physical condition not an emotional one.

Depression is a mental condition.

rats can feel depressed, but can it feel sad?

general answer no. to feel sad it has to be able to comprehend the gravity of actions.

The fact that a rat can get depressed from losing a cagemate is comprehension enough. Rats are very social animals - if you actually observe their behaviour, they are not as simple as you make them out to me.

Does it now?
and what does it say?

does it reflect the experience i've had in a medical ward and seeing some one infected with Plague?
does it reflect the an infectious 'rat bite' which hospitalized me for over a week when i was younger? Or the series of rather painful 'just in case' shots i had to have because of it?
does it reflect the fact that several people depend on my existance and well being?
does it reflect that the mental health of a particular girl is highly dependent on my good health?

Of course it does. You're practically condoning the painful torture of another animal, irrespective of how a random rat or flea impacted on your (or someone else's life) negatively.

Did the rat intend to make you miserable? No. Difference here is that you want to make an animal as miserable as possible because another animal had negative contact with other human beings. Hence the act of chucking a living mammal on a glue trap into the trash where it will die slowly and painfully has nothing to do with the situations you described above. So, why does any animal deserve that? Because you don't like it?

Using your bizarre reasoning, I am justified in treating you like crap because humans have caused a lot of death and misery to each other. BTW, I do not believe that you work in the medical field at all based on your poor arguments, lack of basic ethics, and incredibly terrible spelling (being a janitor doesn't count).

Let it die.
it is a pest that spreads death.

it has done so through out history and does so up unto this day.

So do humans. Intentionally, I might add. Guess I should start being mean to other people, hmmm?

How does it that it right to chuck a fully conscious animal, stuck on a glue trap, into your garbage bin, where it will slowly rip itself to pieces and starve to death? What is your defence for this? That another rat bit you, and that they are pests? Do you not see how extremely cruel and unnecessary that is?!

 

[Pyro Paul]

One of my co workers said to me that the "screaming" sound that we hear when mice get stuck on the glue traps is because as they try to get free they are tearing the skin off of their feet.

And he said that with a smile. I'll never look at him the same way again.

the 'screaming' is usually best thought of as cursing.
high pitch sounds that are audable to humans denotes agression similar to a dogs bark.

 

[Fargus]

no, you see... I am Human.

Barely.

i live through experiences, create rational judgements based off of them and have them subquently influence my behaviour and actions from there on forth. because my choices don't coincide with your beliefs does not make me 'a demon' 'evil' or 'immoral' as my values are placed in diffrent things which i set of a higher importance.

What is rational about torturing a rat to death on a glue trap? It all comes from hatred and spite, there's no rational reason for it at all. It's completely pointless. You don't need to value a rat to see that being cruel to one in such a fashion is immoral. Where is your moral defence? Setting a higher importance to other things doesn't invalidate the fact that killing something that way is morally questionable.

of which, i set the importance of my health above the 'comfort' of an animal that can neither understand nor appreciate such an action.

Comfort has nothing to do with it. Were there such concerns, you wouldn't be using glue traps in the first place. No, it's the morality of intentionally inducing more pain than needed that I'm questioning here. That is the immoral bit. And since when does an animal have to appreciate and understand it for humans to treat it humanely? Are you saying we should only be kind to others only if we get something in return? Wow, you selfish... ... I'd better not say it, I'd get banned.

Your health has nothing to do with the decision of whether to humanely euthanise a live animal on a glue trap vs chucking it into the garbage bin to draw out its agony. Stop making excuses for torturing animals.

 

[Fargus]

the 'screaming' is usually best thought of as cursing.
high pitch sounds that are audable to humans denotes agression similar to a dogs bark.

Funny you're referring it to as "cursing" and "aggression" to try and downplay the suffering of the animal as much as possible. If you knew anything about rats, you'd realise that such screams are a signal that the animal is being hurt. A dog, cat, rabbit, human, etc will do the same thing.

 

[EllEzDee]

I thought this was going to be about gluing things down to piss people off. The first few lines looked that way, and when you said "mouse", i thought you meant computer mouse.

Fucking hell, could there be a more sick method out there?

 

[Scolar Visari]

Traps are nice and all, but I prefer to take care of them personally. Airgun is helpful for house work and a knife or hatchet may or may not have been used on occasion.

 

[lacktheknack]

We had a humane trap. It's a box with tunnel, where you stuff the cheese into one end and place that end against a wall. The mouse enters, goes for the cheese, steps on the plate in the tunnel, and gets scooped into a little plastic box with airholes and the cheese, so it has food.

You then release the mouse in your local forest.

Glue traps are horrendous things.

 

[Fargus]

I thought this was going to be about gluing things down to piss people off. The first few lines looked that way, and when you said "mouse", i thought you meant computer mouse.

Fucking hell, could there be a more sick method out there?

Check out Pyro Paul's justification:

as to the disposal... i personally would of thrown it in the dumpster with little though. as inhumane that may make me... the verulient death and pestilence carried in varmits is not something i take lightly.

So instead of just killing the bugger so it is put out of its misery, he throws it in the garbage to suffer some more. Not going to even begin listing the excuses he uses for it... it's all in this thread, anyway.

 

[Canid117]

Why not just give every worker a hammer?

It would make a wonderful team building exercise.

 

[xFullmetalx]

Ummmmm what?