What are your thoughts on suicide?

[Melon Hunter]

I can't stand it when people say suicide is selfish. It's so disrespectful and self centred. In the mind of a suicidal person killing yourself is the most selfless thing you can do. And if someone has a mindset like that then it should be pretty obvious that the person needs real help. Dismissing them as being selfish is the worst thing you can do. And when I hear people say things like this they often explain their views by saying things like how someone jumping in front of a train is selfish because it's an inconvenience to everyone because they have to stop the train and everything. As if being late for work means anything compared to the crap that's made this person get to the point at which they want to end their own life. Others say it's selfish because they hurt people close to them, which I can kind of understand. But if they were so close then whey didn't they help this person who obviously really needed it?

As my dad works on the railways, I've inherited his disdain for people who commit suicide by train. Not because he was held up for work. He was thinking of the train driver, who just had to see a fellow human being be splattered across his windscreen, or the trackmen who have to go around picking up dismembered limbs and other bits of a person, or the people who have to hose the blood off of the train afterwards. Did you know that some London Underground drivers never go back to work after some commits suicide using their train? As in, can never hold down a permanent job again? Did they earn that trauma, simply because someone else decided the best way to off themselves was on the Northern Line, in front of a crowd of people?

So, no. I don't find suicide an inherently selfish act, but I absolutely think it's selfish when you mentally scar someone for the rest of their life through your actions.

 

[jizzytissue]

OH NOES ! the rents due and i haven't got no cash and i'm a guy so i cant pay in kind well better jump off the humber bridge bye guys ! PATHETIC !

 

[Bat Vader]

I view suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I can understand why people would commit it but I don't agree with it.

 

[the darknees abyss]

i think you should do if you not an awesome game or you just get someone eles to do it.

 

[backinthepresentfuture]

more people should do it.

 

[saoirse13]

I see that most people are saying that you shouldn't call suicide a selfish act. My dad committed suicide 4 years ago and I can honestly say it was the most selfish thing he could have done. I understand (in my own way) what his reasons may have been, but it is my personal belief that nothing is that bad. There is nothing that cannot be overcome with time. I'm speaking from simply a personal experience and not generalizing. But I have seen and had the distruction it can cause to those left behind. My dad left behind two young sons neither that had reached the age of 6 to grow up without a father. Neither of the boys understand what our dad did and why he is not around anymore. I'm sorry if I sound like a comeplete *****, but that to me is the most selfish thing a person can do. to leave a family to pick up the pieces of what they distroyed. I grew up until my late teenage years without knowing my dad and met him when i was 17. I knew him for 2 years untill he died. Don't get me wrong I love my father and always will. I would do anything to see him again and have him back, but it kills me to know that my brothers will never see their dad again.
It's a difficult subject and is vastly on the rise for one of the leading causes of deaths, But i honestly believe that if people were more open to the idea of actually getting psychological help with probelms and issues then maybe this wouldn't be such a huge issue.

 

[Professor James]

Now that I give more thought to it, I think it depends on the situation said person is in.

 

[Severin]

I think that suicide in many cases stems from a person not being equiped with the proper psychological resources to deal with his problems.Therefore it's generaly a realy bad choice, for lack of better adjectives.I mean statistics show a great deal of suicidals change their minds at very last second, yet not all of them suirvive to regret it.I can understand suicide in some cases though.I mean if you've got a medical condition that makes you suffer in excrutiating pain every single second, I can understand why someone may want to end his suffering.That being said I think suicide is acceptable only as a sort of "final solution" when there's literaly nothing you can do to change things-when you've got nothing to loose.Being bullied at school? Well you're not gonna be in school your entire life.Unemployed and in poverty? Who said nothing will change?I mean you never know what may happen tomorrow... But as mentioned above, suffering excutiating pain every waking moment, with no or low possibility of cure?Well I can certainly see why someone would consider doing it...Generaly though it's your life (regardless of what certain faiths may claim) and you choose how to live it.Or stop living it for that matter

 

[Angie7F]

I think everyone has their reasons. I am not religious so I have nothing against it.
Sure the people left behind will be upset, but people will die in one way or another.

 

[Darken12]

I consider suicide to be a human right, and wholly and completely acceptable. I am in complete support of euthanasia and assisted suicide, and I believe our lives and our bodies belong to ourselves, and it is our right to end them when we please.

[insert rant about the principle of autonomy and decrying the evils of paternalism here]

EDIT: Wow, we're on a necromancy spree, aren't we.

 

[bojackx]

I think that it's entirely up to a person whether they can end their life or not. For those who say that it's selfish when you have others relying on you, whilst I guess that's true, it's also very selfish to guilt a person into staying alive just to make life easier for yourselves, when they're clearly having a horrible time.

I'm not saying there aren't situations where suicide is very irresponsible (girlfriend left you, you have young children etc.), but it should always be up to that person whether they want to or not.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Suicide isn't the easy way out, and it's definitely not the most selfish thing someone could do. The most selfish thing someone could do is to demand that another person, whom they supposedly love, should languish in constant emotional pain so that they don't have to experience loss for a brief period of time. That's selfish. It's asking the person to go to lengths for you which you're not willing to even approach for them. Certainly, you don't just "get over" something like that, but unless it actually makes you kill yourself, too, I don't think it's very fair to compare your pain to theirs.

The saddest thing I've ever heard was a story of, I believe it was a Dutch woman, whose daughter struggled with depression her entire life, most of which was peppered with stays in psychiatric care that failed to help her. She sought assisted suicide and, after being turned down, and after being released from protective care following that request, she overdosed herself. The woman said her daughter died alone, clutching a stuffed animal for company, instead of her mother's hand, because her only option to do it was in secrecy. It's infuriating that something like that should happen in a "civilized" society.

 

[Edguy]

My perspective on life is kind of like the Kelvin temperature scale.

Any value is warmer than absolute zero, even though 250K (-23C) might feel pretty cold.

Point being, that no matter how bad your life might seen, it's better than wasting your one chance. You are so incredibly luck to be alive and self aware, that throwing that opportunity away is a crime, most of all towards yourself.

 

[Raikas]

Suicide isn't the easy way out, and it's definitely not the most selfish thing someone could do. The most selfish thing someone could do is to demand that another person, whom they supposedly love, should languish in constant emotional pain so that they don't have to experience loss for a brief period of time. That's selfish.

Except that for people who are supporting young children/elderly parents and so on, it's not a brief loss. You're looking at throwing their lives into not just emotional turmoil but also financial turmoil, and that's something that can last for years. A colleague of mine had a parent kill himself when she was in school (and when her sisters were young children), and the financial impact on their family was massive - and that's without getting into the emotional impact.

That's not to dismiss the suffering of the person living with a mental illness, but they don't make decisions in a vacuum.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Except that for people who are supporting young children/elderly parents and so on, it's not a brief loss. You're looking at throwing their lives into not just emotional turmoil but also financial turmoil, and that's something that can last for years. A colleague of mine had a parent kill himself when she was in school (and when her sisters were young children), and the financial impact on their family was massive - and that's without getting into the emotional impact.

That's not to dismiss the suffering of the person living with a mental illness, but they don't make decisions in a vacuum.

If all they want the person around for is financial security then I don't see why the person who wants to kill themselves should care. I'd think that would have the opposite effect, actually. "Don't kill yourself, we need your money! Also, we probably love you." Okay! Bye.

I don't believe children have any obligations to their parents on account of not having had a say in their existence to begin with. It is different for their own young children, but only until they're old enough to provide for themselves. And even then, that's why we have social safety nets. You spend your whole life contributing to them, you may as well take advantage of them sometime.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I have a pretty soft heart so I feel sad each and every time.
I constantly hear people say "Well, people die and commit suicide all the time, you might as well get used to it."
No. I don't think I can.
You can get shot in the foot every day, I don't think you'd get used to it.

 

[Raikas]

If all they want the person around for is financial security then I don't see why the person who wants to kill themselves should care. I'd think that would have the opposite effect, actually. "Don't kill yourself, we need your money! Also, we probably love you." Okay! Bye.

Wow, that's not even close to what I was saying. A 6-year-old doesn't look at his or her parents in that way at all - but it's a fact that two-income families are more financially secure than single income families. And if that other parent is mourning and paying for a funeral, that's not going to be promoting fantastic parenting either.

Losing a parent to a non-self-inflicted death or even divorce is associated with a lower standard of living - add the stigma of suicide to that and how can you not see that effecting the family?

I don't believe children have any obligations to their parents on account of not having had a say in their existence to begin with.

Fair enough - but if that child has taken it upon themselves to care for an elderly parent, then that's still a responsibility that they're chosing to abandon. Brushing it off with "they can use social assistance" is incredibly dismissive, and ignores the fact that some people may be in countries where that's a very limited option, or where it doesn't provide nearly the same level of support.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Wow, that's not even close to what I was saying. A 6-year-old doesn't look at his or her parents in that way at all - but it's a fact that two-income families are more financially secure than single income families. And if that other parent is mourning and paying for a funeral, that's not going to be promoting fantastic parenting either.

Losing a parent to a non-self-inflicted death or even divorce is associated with a lower standard of living - add the stigma of suicide to that and how can you not see that effecting the family?

Tit for tat? I never said suicide happened in a vacuum, either, but that didn't stop you from making strawman arguments as if I had.

I agree there's selfishness on both sides, but when both sides are selfish, no one really has a great claim to the moral high ground. Since the suicide victim's the one who has to shoulder a greater share of the burden for their decision(live a life you don't want, or permanently erased yourself from existence), it's easier for me to sympathize with them. It's easier for me to sympathize with people who are so miserable that it overcomes their survival instincts than people who will be upset, but ultimately collect themselves and carry on, even if it does mean attending a less expensive school or dropping down a rung on the social ladder. It's easier for me to sympathize with people who don't latch onto others and literally try to make life and death decisions for them.

Fair enough - but if that child has taken it upon themselves to care for an elderly parent, then that's still a responsibility that they're chosing to abandon. Brushing it off with "they can use social assistance" is incredibly dismissive, and ignores the fact that some people may be in countries where that's a very limited option, or where it doesn't provide nearly the same level of support.

I suppose you're right, blanket statements like these would apply to strangers in developing nations, but I don't think that's what most people have in mind when they call people selfish cowards or make comments about taking the easy way out. No, in my experience at least, they're usually referring to people within their own social circles who presumably benefit from the same privileges that give the Negative Nellies the option to comment about it from their pricey consumer electronics. In that case, they probably do have access to adequate support.

 

[Raikas]

Tit for tat? I never said suicide happened in a vacuum, either, but that didn't stop you from making strawman arguments as if I had.

No, but you said "The most selfish thing someone could do is to demand that another person, whom they supposedly love, should languish in constant emotional pain so that they don't have to experience loss for a brief period of time. That's selfish." - the implication being that the only thing the family experiences is a brief period of emotional loss. And that's just not true.

I agree there's selfishness on both sides, but when both sides are selfish, no one really has a great claim to the moral high ground.

Fair enough, I suppose. Personally though, if a person chooses to have a child and then abdicates their responsiblity for that (minor) child, then I do feel comfortable saying that that person is being more selfish than the child that needs their support. I suppose it's technically true that young children are selfish by nature, but it's not like they can help that - it's a normal developmental stage, after all.

Since the suicide victim's the one who has to shoulder a greater share of the burden for their decision(live a life you don't want, or permanently erased yourself from existence), it's easier for me to sympathize with them. It's easier for me to sympathize with people who are so miserable that it overcomes their survival instincts than people who will be upset, but ultimately collect themselves and carry on, even if it does mean attending a less expensive school or dropping down a rung on the social ladder. It's easier for me to sympathize with people who don't latch onto others and literally try to make life and death decisions for them.

I get that, but I still think that by focusing on "they'll collect themselves and move on", it ignores the financial reality of raising children (I've seen accidental or health-related deaths where people thought the late parent was a little selfish because they didn't have their affairs, same with people who were killed because of dangerous hobbies) - not to mention the cases where the suicidal person is a single or custodial parent. And in terms of the family ultimately collecting themselves, it's not just about mourning, it's can include moving house, changing social standing, not to mention that that kind of loss can trigger mental illnesses in the remaining family members.

Overall I think we're probably on the same page - I think the people who rant about the selfishness actions of single adults or older teenagers are being unfair to those people. But when that person has responsibilities for other lives, then that becomes (at least to my mind) an entirely different situation - having dependants (whether because you chose to have children or chose to take custody of minor or disabled other relatives, or because you chose to take in a parent or grandparent) means literally that - other lives are dependent on yours, so it's no longer just about you and your experience and suffering. That might be harsh, but frankly life if harsh, y'know?

 

[Johnny Impact]

Friends/Family do not choose who we marry, what we like or don't like, what career path we take, whether we are straight or gay, etc. However much they may disagree with our choices, it is their responsibility to act like adults and acknowledge that our hopes/dreams/standards/decisions etc being different from theirs does not make them less valid. We have the right to direct our own lives, to choose what we think is best. This includes the right to end said lives if we choose to do so.

To those who say it is a terrible decision: so is obesity, smoking, and any number of other things. Do you rail against every fat person you see? Do you tell every smoker you meet that they have committed an unpardonable sin? Probably not.

To those who say it is the ultimate act of selfishness: is it not just as selfish to demand that a person live on in despair so black and all-encompassing he would choose death to escape it? "It would make me sad if you left." Well, it makes him sad to stay alive. If we're going to talk about compassion and understanding the feelings of others, let's include everyone.

To those who say it is nothing more than an escape: how much time did you spend watching TV, surfing the Web, and playing video games this week? With very few exceptions, time spent in such ways is time wasted escaping from lives that could be better if we spent that time productively. Don't get me wrong, I'm right here surfing along with you. And yes, I am aware we can't shut off suicide and go back to our lives like we can with TV. I just think it's hypocritical to label suicide an escape when we all have escapes.

I'm not advocating suicide. People who kill themselves have officially stated that they have nothing to offer the world and things are never going to get better, neither of which I think is true. Most situations are temporary. Everyone can do something good for the world. I'm simply advocating each person's right to make his own decisions.