What can Developers & Publishers do to combat Piracy?

Recommended Videos

SpartanBlackman

New member
Apr 1, 2011
117
0
0
This is going to sound crazy, but listen. Listen real good. This is a very new and exciting idea.
What
What if
What if devs stopped catering to the lowest common denominator and made games good enough so that even the poorest wanted to support them.
What if Devs patched games, and made sure they worked all the time, even before release? What if the Devs didn't have 200+ items of DLC on the first day.
What if Devs actually cared about the PC gamers? Pretty sure that would stop piracy. Thing is, its a terrible cycle.

Game is terribly optimized for PC, a bad port of a 360 game.
"I don't want to support this"
Pirate it
"Woah, people are pirating it. I guess the PC gamers don't want us. Lets focus on Xbox and the Call of Duty audience"

You can't stop pirating, but devs actually focusing on PC gamers will cut it a lot.
 

Vausch

New member
Dec 7, 2009
1,476
0
0
DaJoW said:
Vausch said:
Here's an idea: Reward people who buy games legitimately. Make a deal with retailers or have a card put into each physical copy and/or a code given to downloaders, have it take, say, 5 codes and you get a 20-40% discount on any game either from said developer or (if they're all willing to partake), retailers included any game you choose. Exclude this from used game buyers, pirates won't be able to use it, etc.

Flaws: Keygens, card theft, card copying (Can be fixed if codes are databased so they only work once).
Not sure I follow - you're suggesting making future game purchases cheaper if you buy 5? If so, that would do nothing to combat piracy, since that'd still be a lot more than $0 and no real incentive.

OT: Demos and lower prices would win over a lot, though far from all, pirates.
It's kind of the same concept as a rewards card at a coffee stand, you buy 9 and get the 10th free. People tend to like it when they're rewarded, even if it is minimal. Yes, prices could stand to be reduced but maybe alternative pricing like what was suggested in Extra Credits with DLC is a better option. Charge 25 bucks for the game, 20 bucks then lets you unlock multiplayer later on. Developer gets more money, we pay lets, etc. etc. (that would also give developers incentive to not make sh*tty single players, lest people revolt)
 

CountChopula

New member
Jul 25, 2009
45
0
0
this is exactly why the f2p model works so well. If the initial game and most of the game content is free, then there is no need to pirate it. And whatever bonus content you do have, is extremely hard to pirate.
 

Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
2,420
0
0
incal11 said:
You forget those who try it, then pay for it when the price has gone down. But that's just an example, if the appeal of just having it for free was so dominant with those huge download numbers there would be no sales at all. Instead the numbers of sales and downloads are proportional.
You might say we can't know which is pulling the other up (assuming it is more logical to say it is the sales), but in fact we can:
http://new-media.lazaruscorporation.co.uk/2010/10/piracy-trumps-obscurity-again/
http://amitay.us/blog/files/piracy_doubled_my_app_sales.php
From your own links: "(Note: Certainly does not scale with size. Any Top 100 App will not receive any benefit from piracy)"

The idea there is that sales increased for these very, very small-time guys because the piracy afforded them free word-of-mouth advertising. And at this small a scale, an extra few dozen sales could be a bajillion percent increase.

This also doesn't indicate that the pirates are the new buyers. Because a lot of piracy still occurs on the same product, it seems the overwhelming majority of pirates do not convert to buyers. That's using the graphs and data provided in the second link.

The data you've provided shows how, below a certain threshold, piracy can be "free marketing and distribution." But it also shows that the piracy rate far, far outpaces any claims of the good that piracy does. It basically ends up a 'broken window fallacy' -- if I break a window somewhere, suddenly the glass worker has more work, so I've "created jobs," but only if looked at from a self-serving perspective. Just because the piracy has some unintentionally good side-effects (for developers below a certain sales level) doesn't mean piracy is good or beneficial.

Positive buzz about a game creates more piracy, rather than the misguided belief that piracy somehow creates more positive buzz (and thus drives up sales). Evidence: The most pirated games are those that are the most anticipated and most advertised -- the positive buzz increases the likelihood that folks will work to crack the game faster.

And while we can't say for sure that those downloads equate 1:1 to lost sales, we can definitely say more than 0% of them do.
 

Jourdan Cameron

New member
Feb 18, 2010
27
0
0
Hmmm...
I'd probably say make it not worth pirating... Not that I'm saying to make crappy games, but why not release a game for free, but totally ad-supported? If you want no ads, pay the price for the full game! It could work.
 

Dfskelleton

New member
Apr 6, 2010
2,851
0
0
Bocaj2000 said:
Dfskelleton said:
I know! It would be intrusive, but it might work if the developers are honest.
Imput a complex code into the game that nobody would notice, that transmits to a certified team of people who can determine of the copy of the game was paid for. If not, they can upload a virus to the pirates computer that deletes all of their files and fills up their ENTIRE HARD DRIVE with pictures of Bill Cosby.
That's cute. do you have a serious answer?
Afraid not. Was it supposed to be a serious answer?
 

Bocaj2000

New member
Sep 10, 2008
1,082
0
0
Dfskelleton said:
Bocaj2000 said:
Dfskelleton said:
I know! It would be intrusive, but it might work if the developers are honest.
Imput a complex code into the game that nobody would notice, that transmits to a certified team of people who can determine of the copy of the game was paid for. If not, they can upload a virus to the pirates computer that deletes all of their files and fills up their ENTIRE HARD DRIVE with pictures of Bill Cosby.
That's cute. do you have a serious answer?
Afraid not. Was it supposed to be a serious answer?
meh. it's just a topic that i'm a little sensitive to. Sometimes it's hard to separate the jokes from the assholes... sorry for the butthurt:(
ps. it was actually funny ^-^
 

incal11

New member
Oct 24, 2008
517
0
0
Dastardly said:
From your own links: "(Note: Certainly does not scale with size. Any Top 100 App will not receive any benefit from piracy)"

The idea there is that sales increased for these very, very small-time guys because the piracy afforded them free word-of-mouth advertising. And at this small a scale, an extra few dozen sales could be a bajillion percent increase.

This also doesn't indicate that the pirates are the new buyers. Because a lot of piracy still occurs on the same product, it seems the overwhelming majority of pirates do not convert to buyers. That's using the graphs and data provided in the second link.

The data you've provided shows how, below a certain threshold, piracy can be "free marketing and distribution." But it also shows that the piracy rate far, far outpaces any claims of the good that piracy does. It basically ends up a 'broken window fallacy' -- if I break a window somewhere, suddenly the glass worker has more work, so I've "created jobs," but only if looked at from a self-serving perspective. Just because the piracy has some unintentionally good side-effects (for developers below a certain sales level) doesn't mean piracy is good or beneficial.

Positive buzz about a game creates more piracy, rather than the misguided belief that piracy somehow creates more positive buzz (and thus drives up sales). Evidence: The most pirated games are those that are the most anticipated and most advertised -- the positive buzz increases the likelihood that folks will work to crack the game faster.

And while we can't say for sure that those downloads equate 1:1 to lost sales, we can definitely say more than 0% of them do.
Small scale games seems to be the only way to try and see the link between sales and downloads since the big titles are always cracked from day 1, if not before. In the first link it wasn't just word of mouth, the whole comic book was put there for all to see. The second link shows that at least word of mouth is a positive influence, even if it is made by downloaders. Beside, by your logic hugely marketted games could not be sold at all because of everyone wanting them so much, but they shift millions upon millions of copies. Then it's simply that the positive or negative impact of downloads on actual sales for mainstream work is in fact negligible.
The positive buzz is undeniable concerning excellent work, but some mainstream games can indeed suffer if words about their mediocrity comes out too fast. This would encourage the making of better work over time, since crap is bound to be even less successful. Hardly a tragedy, except for the untalented.

I don't ignore that a downloader has a real chance of being a lost buyer. There's no reasons for a downloader being an additional sale to be less real. These are two opposed factors, and it's a matter of which one is stronger. If the "lost buyer" factor was stronger then there would be a decrease in sales in those links I gave you, and this would be demultiplied by the small scale in the same way.

That 'broken window fallacy' is an appeal to sentiments, a downloader who results in several more sales after praising the work is not a "broken window" to begin with, and the one he gives more work to is the very owner of that immaterial "window". The ones who don't pay and don't buzz are a non issue, at worst they are broadening their horizon beyond the limits of their purse, they become more likely buyers for all creators.
The resentment of the artist who wants complete control on his work is understandable. Still, it is absurd to try and take on what is a false issue with electronic protection.
 

Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
2,420
0
0
incal11 said:
Small scale games seems to be the only way to try and see the link between sales and downloads since the big titles are always cracked from day 1, if not before.
No, small scale games are the only way to establish trends for small scale games. Extrapolation of these trends doesn't read accurately for larger games. A certain amount of vitamin A is healthy... for a person of one size. That same amount of vitamin A could be a poisonous overdose to someone of a different size. Think of that, but in reverse as to how piracy "buzz" impacts games -- small games, it can provide a boost in public awareness... but large games, of which the public is already quite aware, it's just plain old piracy. The alleged "positive" effects do not scale up into larger and better-advertised games

Beside, by your logic hugely marketted games could not be sold at all because of everyone wanting them so much, but they shift millions upon millions of copies.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of people buy the game because:

1. They want to support the developers.
2. They simply believe piracy is wrong and illegal (it is).
3. They don't trust pirated downloads, so they don't risk it.

It surprises me that you ignore these people, because they are exactly the reason your supposed "good effects" happen at all. Piracy might raise awareness of the game, but that would just lead to more people pirating if not for those fine folks who believe that buying it is better (and less dickheaded).

The positive buzz is undeniable concerning excellent work, but some mainstream games can indeed suffer if words about their mediocrity comes out too fast. This would encourage the making of better work over time, since crap is bound to be even less successful. Hardly a tragedy, except for the untalented.
Another gross oversimplification, and false generalization. Positive buzz will only lead pirates to pirate more. It leads buyers to buy more. No matter how fantastic a game is, that's not going to dependably turn a pirate into a buyer -- they already have it for free, and it makes no sense to buy it at that point.

Couple this with the fact that good games get pirated more than bad ones. So it's obviously not an issue of quality.

If the "lost buyer" factor was stronger then there would be a decrease in sales in those links I gave you, and this would be demultiplied by the small scale in the same way.
Take another look at that graph in your second link. The "lost buyer" factor isn't negated by the fact that sales went up "double." Look at the download rate (in blue) versus the purchase rate. Piracy went up, what, 40 times? To get twice the sales. As he puts it, for every 15 pirates, he made 1 additional sale. If we allow that even one of those 15 pirates is a lost sale (a disgustingly conservative estimate), in a sense that cancels out the gain. If just two of those 15 pirates would have bought it (if a pirated copy was not available), then piracy is still costing sales.

The sales "increase" from piracy is just an example of a side effect accidentally making the piracy seem a little less of a problem. Looking at the piracy rates shows you that piracy is clearly a problem, and is clearly causing these people to lose sales they would have otherwise made.

That 'broken window fallacy' is an appeal to sentiments, a downloader who results in several more sales after praising the work is not a "broken window" to begin with, and the one he gives more work to is the very owner of that immaterial "window".
Not even nearly. The downloader clearly represents a broken window, whether or not he's a "lost sale." He does damage to the property by helping make it more available for illegal download. This is exactly the kind of thing the Broken Window refers to.

Bob breaks a window. Now Jim, the glassworker, has work to do! If we look at only those two entities, it looks like a net gain for the townsfolk. But Bob broke Jerry's window... so now Jerry loses money that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere. It resulted in a shift of wealth, not an increase. And depending on the cost of the window, it might be a loss -- Jerry may have spent that money in several places. When we broaden our view to include the whole picture, we see the "positive" is outweighed by all the negatives.

Still, it is absurd to try and take on what is a false issue with electronic protection.
You haven't established this issue as a "false" one. In fact, the data you've provided seems to indicate it's more of an issue. It's as though the crime rate in a city has skyrocketed by 40 times, yet for every 15 crimes, one new good deed is inspired... and you're calling that a "win."

It's exactly that narrowness of focus that allows people to convince themselves that piracy is a "victimless" crime. Except worse, because you're trying to sell piracy as somehow beneficial. And your own numbers disagree.
 

Jaime_Wolf

New member
Jul 17, 2009
1,194
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
Jaime_Wolf said:
Make great games.

Replace current discussions of theft (even if you feel they're warranted, they're not doing anything) with discussions of compensation. Rather than stressing what a terrible person you are for not paying, suggest that it would be nice to pay for games you enjoy.

Alternative pricing schemes (see discussions by Gabe Newell for instance).

Trying to "stop" piracy is, at least currently, an unreasonable goal. A more realistic goal is to mitigate its effects. Currently, people are assuming that the best way to do that is to try to stop it, even if that effort is doomed. People are probably wrong.
Barring borderline impractical policing methods, piracy will always exist and stopping it is not only unreasonable but implausible.

But we are a stupid, slow society. Corporations, who are otherwise profit driven, would spend a billion dollars to stop a thousand in piracy. We have such a vengeance fetish that this is the one case where it's okay to actually lose money on a venture. Developers can't even product a "pretty good" game with "pretty good" profits without facing the ax, but we can piss away millions on stopping people and get little to no success and that's okay. Money, I might add, that could go into development and make more "pretty good" games.
The future is largely unknowable. It is very possible that unbreakable DRM could eventually exist. It's questionable that it could exist given the current computing and legal environment, but both of those environments will necessarily change. Future architectures might make tracking of filesharing much more feasible or might make encryption less useful for instance.
 

omegameep

New member
Nov 8, 2011
1
0
0
I've be lurking on this site for a long time and this argument of piracy is getting us nowhere.
Developers and this industry as a whole should stop trying to hinder pirates but instead focus on maximizing profits or the "positives".
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
Jaime_Wolf said:
The future is largely unknowable. It is very possible that unbreakable DRM could eventually exist. It's questionable that it could exist given the current computing and legal environment, but both of those environments will necessarily change. Future architectures might make tracking of filesharing much more feasible or might make encryption less useful for instance.
And if you jump off a building, you might be able to fly. I wouldn't hope for it, and I certainly wouldn't try it, but you might be able to.

Just because nobody's been able to do it before doesn't mean it won't happen in the future, yes. A trite but pointless argument in this case.

The very concept of uncrackable protection is pretty laughable. They've already touted "uncrackable" protection a few times, but it's as viable as an unsinkable ship. We don't know the future, but we can reasonably predict certain things. Maybe someone will learn to walk on water (without assistance). We can't rule it out definitively, but the odds it will happen are pretty terrible. The odds that technology develops in such a way that one can create but not bypass or crack DRM is pretty unlikely. You have as good a chance as sucking the planet through a straw.

It's questionable that it could exist, period. Not in the current environment, in any real environment.

So basically, your speculation comes down to "because magic."
 

incal11

New member
Oct 24, 2008
517
0
0
Dastardly said:
No, small scale games are the only way to establish trends for small scale games. Extrapolation of these trends doesn't read accurately for larger games. A certain amount of vitamin A is healthy... for a person of one size. That same amount of vitamin A could be a poisonous overdose to someone of a different size. Think of that, but in reverse as to how piracy "buzz" impacts games -- small games, it can provide a boost in public awareness... but large games, of which the public is already quite aware, it's just plain old piracy. The alleged "positive" effects do not scale up into larger and better-advertised games
Promotion campains can not be trusted for quality, if a game is good it will be that much more publicity, and one that can be trusted. There can never be too much exposure like this. Beside size and a promotional budget what potentially crucial difference is there ?

You seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of people buy the game because:

1. They want to support the developers.
2. They simply believe piracy is wrong and illegal (it is).
3. They don't trust pirated downloads, so they don't risk it.

It surprises me that you ignore these people, because they are exactly the reason your supposed "good effects" happen at all. Piracy might raise awareness of the game, but that would just lead to more people pirating if not for those fine folks who believe that buying it is better (and less dickheaded).
The people you think about are not the ones who started the effects shown in those links, since the increase in sale started with the download and not the other way around. If you doubt that I suggest you reread the accounts of those developpers.
In fact they are probably people who knows how to download, have decent firewall and computer skills, and may think that some laws are outdated and unfair. One thing in common, with a twist, is they too support the developpers... that they like the most:
http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy (the last part is interesting)
I understand how that can feel unfair to someone who regularly buys crap and has no choice than to go along with it while other give themselves the luxury to just dump it after seeing that they don't like it. Here it is rather the accidental support of mediocre games that is unfair to everyone.

Another gross oversimplification, and false generalization. Positive buzz will only lead pirates to pirate more. It leads buyers to buy more. No matter how fantastic a game is, that's not going to dependably turn a pirate into a buyer -- they already have it for free, and it makes no sense to buy it at that point.

Couple this with the fact that good games get pirated more than bad ones. So it's obviously not an issue of quality.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110725/04104115231/new-study-piracy-increases-quality-content.shtml
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/04/study-pirates-buy-tons-more-music-than-average-folks.ars
If you want to make a case I'd be interested in your own sources.
"buyers" and "pirates" are not separate species, someone who downloads once does not stop paying for everything. Besides it makes sense to pay when you are grateful.

Take another look at that graph in your second link. The "lost buyer" factor isn't negated by the fact that sales went up "double." Look at the download rate (in blue) versus the purchase rate. Piracy went up, what, 40 times? To get twice the sales. As he puts it, for every 15 pirates, he made 1 additional sale. If we allow that even one of those 15 pirates is a lost sale (a disgustingly conservative estimate), in a sense that cancels out the gain. If just two of those 15 pirates would have bought it (if a pirated copy was not available), then piracy is still costing sales.

The sales "increase" from piracy is just an example of a side effect accidentally making the piracy seem a little less of a problem. Looking at the piracy rates shows you that piracy is clearly a problem, and is clearly causing these people to lose sales they would have otherwise made.
They are "loosing" potential sales they would not have had without the downloads to begin with. That additional potential is exploited, as seen in the increase in sales. If it was cancelled out there would be no increase.

Not even nearly. The downloader clearly represents a broken window, whether or not he's a "lost sale." He does damage to the property by helping make it more available for illegal download. This is exactly the kind of thing the Broken Window refers to.

Bob breaks a window. Now Jim, the glassworker, has work to do! If we look at only those two entities, it looks like a net gain for the townsfolk. But Bob broke Jerry's window... so now Jerry loses money that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere. It resulted in a shift of wealth, not an increase. And depending on the cost of the window, it might be a loss -- Jerry may have spent that money in several places. When we broaden our view to include the whole picture, we see the "positive" is outweighed by all the negatives.
Are you breaking a window each time you copy paste ?
I made a point that exposure is positive at least for good games. In reality Bob and Jim are the same person, and he makes a profit. Fixating on a metaphor is not broadening our view either.

You haven't established this issue as a "false" one. In fact, the data you've provided seems to indicate it's more of an issue. It's as though the crime rate in a city has skyrocketed by 40 times, yet for every 15 crimes, one new good deed is inspired... and you're calling that a "win."

It's exactly that narrowness of focus that allows people to convince themselves that piracy is a "victimless" crime. Except worse, because you're trying to sell piracy as somehow beneficial. And your own numbers disagree.
You haven't established this as a true issue yourself, I remind you I'd be interested in your own sources. But try not to make them some mpaa report that says one download just got to be one lost sale and equates an arbitrary number of job losses with it, when it's not the loss of more money than there is in circulation worldwide (really).
A "crime" that inspires a good deed and does no damage is victimless.
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
Not make shit products.

Not provide shit "services" (GfWL).

Not treat paying customers like twats.
 

WOPR

New member
Aug 18, 2010
1,912
0
0
Marter said:
I have a great idea! It's unconventional, but it'll work. Trust me.

Okay, so you know how, like, making a game means it'll eventually get pirated? Well, my idea is simple: Stop making games. It'll work. No more pirating can be done on new products, because, you know, there won't be any new products to pirate!
...
...
I got nothing.
How about do what LoL does?
Make the game FREE
...then add a ton of purchasable add-ons and features
It would be impossible to "pirate" something that's free, and if people tried to hack their account, the developers would have it on record when they got the massive boost due to online connectivity.

also
Captcha = Robbery temporary
ironic on a pirating thread...
 

Jaime_Wolf

New member
Jul 17, 2009
1,194
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
Jaime_Wolf said:
The future is largely unknowable. It is very possible that unbreakable DRM could eventually exist. It's questionable that it could exist given the current computing and legal environment, but both of those environments will necessarily change. Future architectures might make tracking of filesharing much more feasible or might make encryption less useful for instance.
And if you jump off a building, you might be able to fly. I wouldn't hope for it, and I certainly wouldn't try it, but you might be able to.

Just because nobody's been able to do it before doesn't mean it won't happen in the future, yes. A trite but pointless argument in this case.

The very concept of uncrackable protection is pretty laughable. They've already touted "uncrackable" protection a few times, but it's as viable as an unsinkable ship. We don't know the future, but we can reasonably predict certain things. Maybe someone will learn to walk on water (without assistance). We can't rule it out definitively, but the odds it will happen are pretty terrible. The odds that technology develops in such a way that one can create but not bypass or crack DRM is pretty unlikely. You have as good a chance as sucking the planet through a straw.

It's questionable that it could exist, period. Not in the current environment, in any real environment.

So basically, your speculation comes down to "because magic."
I disagree fundamentally.

In terms of cracking it and accessing the content, that's probably the case. I should have been more clear - I meant detecting people who have cracked it, which is considerably less unthinkable. Imagine something as simple as processors that track instruction sequences and send samples off to a database for comparison. It would be an unfortunate development to be sure, it would require a tremendous amount of overhead, and I imagine there would certainly be people producing hardware to get around it, but it would be much harder to avoid than current schemes. If we really do reach a point where computation speed makes overhead for things like this relatively trivial and we're in a similar political climate, these things are unfortunately not hard to imagine.