What could bioware do to make up for mass effect 3?

[Vrex360]

Tell me when the hell these are getting made:

They are on display on Mass Effect's facebook page so I know they've been approved for production, I was hoping to hear more about them at PAX (Didn't go but was expecting news). While people are ragging on the ending, I've opted to set my sights lower so I can't be dissapointed.

Bioware, just give me these actions figures and I shall call it even.

 

[00slash00]

okay i know we are all sick of talking about mass effect 3 and im sorry for contributing to the endless threads about that game. however, after news of bioware changing the ending for free i figured most fans would be at least somewhat appeased. this does not seem to be the case, however, and fans seem just as upset as ever. i find this very confusing because you were, as i understand it (i havent played the game), upset about the ending and wanted bioware to provide and actual conclusion to the story and provide a feeling that your decisions actually mattered. now that bioware is going to do that and give it to you for free, why do so many people still not think thats good enough. im not trying to be a dick or seem patronizing, it just seems like you guys won so im honestly curious why fans still seem so upset and what bioware could do to make you feel like mass effect 3 was the game you hoped for

EDIT:
since i havent played mass effect 2 or 3 yet, i would appreciate as few spoilers as possible. given the subject though, i can understand how that might not be doable

Well, changing the ending entirely, as opposed to just "extending" such a dog turd would be the big thing. Granted it would not make everyone happy, but it would probably result in a situation where there isn't this level of hatred.

That's pretty much it. Nothing else they could do would be practical. The other writing problems like Leng (everything about him) would involve re-structuring the entire game, and that's no more practical than it would have been to "fix" "Dragon Age 2".

I want an ending that fits the game, not one with elements suggested by a 7 year old German fan boy, and not one primarily intended to spin this off into a franchise or generate contreversy and discussion. A fitting, acceptable, ending that spiritually fits this tale of high fantasy in space.

Otherwise I don't care, I don't paticularly want "free stuff" other than them not charging for fixing the ending. I don't care for Hepler and think she should be fired on principle, for reasons that nothing to do with this in paticular, but that's hardly a demand as much as an opinion about how well she fits into gaming.

Really I want EA to own their big mistake, swallow their pride, and fix it. I don't care about anything beyond that.

bioware certainly has a responsibility to their fans to make things right, but they also have a responsibility to themselves (im referring to the writers). it just seems kinda shitty to me to tell the writers that the fans didnt like their story and they have to completely change how it ends. i feel like its kind of fair to try and meet in the middle and change the story to make gamers happy, while still holding on to their overall vision. thats just my opinion, i dont want to start a fight (i just worked 14 hours, i dont have the energy for a debate). im just saying i can understand how it would make gamers and especially fans pissed off, and also how it would make the writers pretty sad. one thing that seems to be a problem, in terms of completely changing the ending is that it seems to me like that would require completely remaking them game. i mean it seems like the only other alternative would be to just shoehorn in a completely different ending that would probably have a fair amount of plot holes. im just assuming though, since i havent played 2 or 3

 

[Zhukov]

Umm... oh, I know!

Fix it.

That's clearly not going to happen for a variety of reasons, but hey, the question was about what they could do, not what the will do, which is bugger all.

 

[Therumancer]

okay i know we are all sick of talking about mass effect 3 and im sorry for contributing to the endless threads about that game. however, after news of bioware changing the ending for free i figured most fans would be at least somewhat appeased. this does not seem to be the case, however, and fans seem just as upset as ever. i find this very confusing because you were, as i understand it (i havent played the game), upset about the ending and wanted bioware to provide and actual conclusion to the story and provide a feeling that your decisions actually mattered. now that bioware is going to do that and give it to you for free, why do so many people still not think thats good enough. im not trying to be a dick or seem patronizing, it just seems like you guys won so im honestly curious why fans still seem so upset and what bioware could do to make you feel like mass effect 3 was the game you hoped for

EDIT:
since i havent played mass effect 2 or 3 yet, i would appreciate as few spoilers as possible. given the subject though, i can understand how that might not be doable

Well, changing the ending entirely, as opposed to just "extending" such a dog turd would be the big thing. Granted it would not make everyone happy, but it would probably result in a situation where there isn't this level of hatred.

That's pretty much it. Nothing else they could do would be practical. The other writing problems like Leng (everything about him) would involve re-structuring the entire game, and that's no more practical than it would have been to "fix" "Dragon Age 2".

I want an ending that fits the game, not one with elements suggested by a 7 year old German fan boy, and not one primarily intended to spin this off into a franchise or generate contreversy and discussion. A fitting, acceptable, ending that spiritually fits this tale of high fantasy in space.

Otherwise I don't care, I don't paticularly want "free stuff" other than them not charging for fixing the ending. I don't care for Hepler and think she should be fired on principle, for reasons that nothing to do with this in paticular, but that's hardly a demand as much as an opinion about how well she fits into gaming.

Really I want EA to own their big mistake, swallow their pride, and fix it. I don't care about anything beyond that.

bioware certainly has a responsibility to their fans to make things right, but they also have a responsibility to themselves (im referring to the writers). it just seems kinda shitty to me to tell the writers that the fans didnt like their story and they have to completely change how it ends. i feel like its kind of fair to try and meet in the middle and change the story to make gamers happy, while still holding on to their overall vision. thats just my opinion, i dont want to start a fight (i just worked 14 hours, i dont have the energy for a debate). im just saying i can understand how it would make gamers and especially fans pissed off, and also how it would make the writers pretty sad. one thing that seems to be a problem, in terms of completely changing the ending is that it seems to me like that would require completely remaking them game. i mean it seems like the only other alternative would be to just shoehorn in a completely different ending that would probably have a fair amount of plot holes. im just assuming though, since i havent played 2 or 3

The maddening thing about this point is that your not the only one making it, and it's based off of ignorance on the actual issues surrounding the anger over the ending. The reason why things like the interview transcripts from that $3 ending app, and the promises made by Bioware previously, and so on are so important is because it shows that this ending was literally coughed out at the last possible minute, and designed according to a mentality based around what was going to make EA/Bioware the most money. Their intent moved away from their promises to finish the story in a satisfying manner, and answer all the questions in the series, towards one of trying to spark debate and contreversy in hopes of generating hype for the next games in the series now that they want to turn it from a trilogy into a franchise.

This isn't baseless supposition, or conspiricy theories, or other things that Biodrones (or really any angry fanboy) will spout in attempts to defend their favorite sacred cow, it comes directly from Bioware itself, which is why we've had all those links to the Bioware social forums with long lists of promises the design team made, including specific statements about the ending, and entire threads dedicated to interviews from the design team.

When you consider how insane accusations of Bioware basing part of the ending off of fan mail received from a 7 year old German kid sound, and then realize that this is actually TRUE and something that Bioware itself has mentioned, it's understandable that nobody takes a defense of "artistic integrity" seriously, even before you get into the financial aspects of things. One of the reasons we actually have an FTC complaint going forward is because Bioware's design team actually said flat out the ending was not going to be an "A B or C" desician for example, and then the guys who wrote the ending at the last minute decided to disregard that and do the ending that way anyway. Basically the reason why such a complaint to the FTC is viable in terms of fraud and false advertising is because there is a lot of evidence showing Bioware/EA making promises and then breaking them, a lot of which IS circumstantial, but as a civil matter (as opposed to criminal) the standard of proof is
also much lower.

At any rate, I'm not trying to be insulting, so apologies if I'm coming on too strong. It's just that after all this time I'd think that people would understand what these complaints revolve around. There is a bit more to it than just "angry fanboys don't like the ending, and demand a change" there are some pretty good reasons as to why people don't like the ending, many of which have nothing to do with the game in of itself, but the things done by the company surrounding it.

This is incidently part of why so many are getting hostile with the gaming media, the gaming media seems to be intent on making this seem entirely like mega-nerd rage over a bad ending, and while that facet of things is present (and I suppose is the bottom line) there is so much more behind it. Especially seeing as the reasons for the anger invalidate any kind of "artistic" defense on the part of Bioware since EA/Bioware is pretty much under attack for a combination of lying, and sacrificing their artistic integrity to begin with, which is where the complaints are coming from.

 

[Mabster]

I think people who manage to state their business with grace and honesty have done extremely well in this. They've organized and moved EA to take action -- that's no small feat.

It's a shame that others crowd the discussion with vitriol and hyperbole, and probably end up driving away many that would've otherwise given their support happily. I certainly wouldn't want to be grouped as one of 'the fans' with these people.

The subjective nature of this whole debate should not be ignored either. If one side feels the Mass Effect series was ended appropriately, calling those people liars, biodrones or whatever else nonsense is not going to help the situation.

I was really put-off by the reaction that DA2 received, and the uproar surrounding that game wasn't all that dissimilar to what we have now. It's pretty easy to think: people over-reacting to something that doesn't really bother me, just like they did before, keep out of it.

So what I'm saying is: all the power to honesty and perspective.

 

[00slash00]

The maddening thing about this point is that your not the only one making it, and it's based off of ignorance on the actual issues surrounding the anger over the ending. The reason why things like the interview transcripts from that $3 ending app, and the promises made by Bioware previously, and so on are so important is because it shows that this ending was literally coughed out at the last possible minute, and designed according to a mentality based around what was going to make EA/Bioware the most money. Their intent moved away from their promises to finish the story in a satisfying manner, and answer all the questions in the series, towards one of trying to spark debate and contreversy in hopes of generating hype for the next games in the series now that they want to turn it from a trilogy into a franchise.

This isn't baseless supposition, or conspiricy theories, or other things that Biodrones (or really any angry fanboy) will spout in attempts to defend their favorite sacred cow, it comes directly from Bioware itself, which is why we've had all those links to the Bioware social forums with long lists of promises the design team made, including specific statements about the ending, and entire threads dedicated to interviews from the design team.

When you consider how insane accusations of Bioware basing part of the ending off of fan mail received from a 7 year old German kid sound, and then realize that this is actually TRUE and something that Bioware itself has mentioned, it's understandable that nobody takes a defense of "artistic integrity" seriously, even before you get into the financial aspects of things. One of the reasons we actually have an FTC complaint going forward is because Bioware's design team actually said flat out the ending was not going to be an "A B or C" desician for example, and then the guys who wrote the ending at the last minute decided to disregard that and do the ending that way anyway. Basically the reason why such a complaint to the FTC is viable in terms of fraud and false advertising is because there is a lot of evidence showing Bioware/EA making promises and then breaking them, a lot of which IS circumstantial, but as a civil matter (as opposed to criminal) the standard of proof is
also much lower.

At any rate, I'm not trying to be insulting, so apologies if I'm coming on too strong. It's just that after all this time I'd think that people would understand what these complaints revolve around. There is a bit more to it than just "angry fanboys don't like the ending, and demand a change" there are some pretty good reasons as to why people don't like the ending, many of which have nothing to do with the game in of itself, but the things done by the company surrounding it.

This is incidently part of why so many are getting hostile with the gaming media, the gaming media seems to be intent on making this seem entirely like mega-nerd rage over a bad ending, and while that facet of things is present (and I suppose is the bottom line) there is so much more behind it. Especially seeing as the reasons for the anger invalidate any kind of "artistic" defense on the part of Bioware since EA/Bioware is pretty much under attack for a combination of lying, and sacrificing their artistic integrity to begin with, which is where the complaints are coming from.

wow thats a lot of information. well i clearly havent read the same stuff you have so i dont fully understand some of what you said. i will admit that you could be right and that the writers just didnt care about the story. seems more likely though that they pulled a lost. they had a big story but didnt plan it out well enough and by the time the finale of the story came around they suddenly realized they couldnt wrap things up in time and released a very rushed ending. i find it hard to believe that they would intentionally make a bad ending though. i mean bioware has been falling out of favor with gamers for a long time. i find it hard to believe that they would try to piss fans off, even for the purpose of creating more publicity around their series. regardless of their intentions for the ending and their dedication to story, do you feel that completely remaking the ending (and not just providing closure for their current one) would be possible without completely redoing mass effect 3?

 

[Therumancer]

[

wow thats a lot of information. well i clearly havent read the same stuff you have so i dont fully understand some of what you said. i will admit that you could be right and that the writers just didnt care about the story. seems more likely though that they pulled a lost. they had a big story but didnt plan it out well enough and by the time the finale of the story came around they suddenly realized they couldnt wrap things up in time and released a very rushed ending. i find it hard to believe that they would intentionally make a bad ending though. i mean bioware has been falling out of favor with gamers for a long time. i find it hard to believe that they would try to piss fans off, even for the purpose of creating more publicity around their series. regardless of their intentions for the ending and their dedication to story, do you feel that completely remaking the ending (and not just providing closure for their current one) would be possible without completely redoing mass effect 3?

Oh yes, for sure. Really Mass Effect 3 is pretty solid except for the last bit, unlike say "Dragon Age 2" where fixing it would involve basically developing a whole new game. If it wasn't possible I don't think so many would be pushing the issue, which is why there is a whole "change the ending" movement as opposed to the overwhelming majority being far more offensive towards the entire product.

The big issues largely involve EA/Bioware deciding to abandon their current marketing strategy as "failed" and resign themselves to doing more work on any future sequels as opposed to trying to draw on intentionally unresolved issues and an ambigious ending to the triology. Not to mention eating the development costs because when you get down to it, your probably looking at hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in work to fix it due to needing to re-contract voice actors, create new art assets, craft new cinematics, and similar things all of which are not going to come with a viable return since the guys making the complaints (like me) are quite blunt in saying we should not have to pay more for a proper ending to a product we obtained.

I think that if "The Line" holds and keeps pushing we'll see better than what EA/Bioware is offering, becase when you get down to it EA/Bioware already has a lot invested in things like DLC, an entire action figure line, and similar products that are tied into ME3. I think those things will tank to a great degree if they don't fix the ending. After all who wants to buy a set of $40 action figures for a game that ends like this one?

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[Lugbzurg]

BioWare doesn't need to make it up to anyone.
Everyone needs to make it up to BioWare for trashing them so much over something so pointless.

Besides, there are several groups doing far worse in the industry, constantly churning out things that make no sense and insult our intelligence, like Activision and Sega.

Honestly, why are so many people are so angry about the last 5-10 minutes of Mass Effect 3 while there are games that do much worse and do everything ME3's endings did, and then some, throughout the course of the entire game!? (Activision's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 and Sega's Sonic Generations come to mind)

Why should the somewhat disappointing he hit so hard while the massively-disappointing get all these free passes?

 

[smokeyninjas]

Well, for one, they should lift the Origin exclusivity on the PC version.

This right here no matter how bad the ME3 ending is (almost feels like it was written by someone who recently suffered brain damage & forgot everthing they knew about storytelling) i'd still like to complete the collection on steam since i aint going near origin.

 

[Rheinmetall]

Cease to exist maybe? I think we gamers can live without pseudo-rpg like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. It will cost us, but we will survive. It's no coincidence that it's EA that publishes their games. That means a hell of a lot.

 

[Kristian Fischer]

Bioware doesn't have to "make up" for anything. They don't owe us a damn thing, especially not the self-righteous nerd rage brigade.

Get this through your skulls once and for all: Bioware is a COMPANY. They like making games, sure, but they're in it to make M-O-N-E-Y!!!!!

 

[Kristian Fischer]

Cease to exist maybe? I think we gamers can live without pseudo-rpg like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. It will cost us, but we will survive. It's no coincidence that it's EA that publishes their games. That means a hell of a lot.

Who's "we gamers", paleface? You don't speak for me, or for anybody else but yourself.

 

[Rheinmetall]

Cease to exist maybe? I think we gamers can live without pseudo-rpg like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. It will cost us, but we will survive. It's no coincidence that it's EA that publishes their games. That means a hell of a lot.

Who's "we gamers", paleface? You don't speak for me, or for anybody else but yourself.

First of all, learn manners and how to address to people, if it is possible for you that is.
Secondly, does your instant reaction to my "we gamers" statement mean that indeed you can't live without Dragon Age and Mass Effect? That's very interesting, if not a little sad.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Fully remake Dragon Age 2.
Fix the buggy combat
fix the awful story
fix the dumb dialog tree system.

*Add a "Neutral" dialog option to ALL of Mass Effect 3
Completely remove the "Cartwheel" command from the game
Put the "Sprint" command on "click the left stick"
*Completely revamp the ending, (Or Indoctrination Theory. I'd be okay with that)
Completely remove Tali's face (Let FemShep romance her)
Give Kal'Reegar a better sendoff than some fucking text in an Email
*Put some form of planet exploration in the game (Mako, Hammerhead, Jet-packs, something!)
Add more squad mates (Forgive me for getting used to a full ship in ME 2)
Add "Loyalty" missions (or at least personal missions)
Give Morinth a better cameo (Seriously guys. What The Fuck were you thinking?)
Put Hacking and bypassing minigames back in the game
Make Kai Leng's roll make a fucking lick of sense
Give Shepard a chance for a three-way
Fire Jessica Chobot out of a cannon into the sun (she has no business voice acting)
Put Gianna Parasini and Emily Wong in the game
Let us see a female Turrian

Release the "Enhanced Baldur's Gate" on the Consoles
Don't fuck it up!

*Make Dragon Age 3 more like Dragon Age Origins

If Bioware just did the *'d things I'd forgive them.
If they did all of these things I'd be back %110 fanboy status

 

[Tohuvabohu]

What could Bioware do to make up for Mass Effect 3?
Nothing. The game was great, an absolute blast to play through, it just had a really shitty ending. And you know what? Fuck it. I don't mind putting it down in my record book under the "Great games with shitty endings" category.

now

What could Bioware do to make up for Dragon Age 2?
Where the hell do I start!?

^But that's not the question, so instead of ranting about the DA2 shitfest, I'll just ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long.

 

[Quesa]

KOTOR, JE, ME and DA:O were massive, sprawling adventures that wanted to make you feel like you were in a huge world and were shaping it to your will. They were highly flawed games, and as many people point out, rightly, they share so many elements that in many ways they're the same game. It's what I liked from them, though.

I hated DA2 because it was purporting to be a sequel to DA:O. My issues with ME2 and ME3 are based on my love of ME. I might restore the BioWare exception to my EA boycott once they are working on a new IP, provided they learn their lesson about continuity. I don't fancy getting invested in a new universe, protagonist, game system and then have a sequel pooped out that changes massive gameplay elements. Maybe I'll just stick to original games and ignore all of their sequels, hah.

 

[Arafiro]

Well, for one, they should lift the Origin exclusivity on the PC version.

This, a thousand times. It's simply absurd that they'd intentionally lock out such a large percentage of PC gamers.

 

[keinechance]

What could bioware do to make up for....?

Make good games again.

 

[DirgeNovak]

Mass Effect 3 was the best game BioWare ever made. They have nothing to make up for. They are already bending over backwards to calm the ending crybabies down. Anyone who continues to complain at that point seriously needs to get a life. This bullshit needs to stop.