What do you think is the greatest epic fail for humanity?

[ToxicOranges]

The dark ages and the notion that all humans are equal.

Hang on, who isnt equal in your eyes?
Sure, filthy degenerate murderers and rapists are low... but we are all equal? No?
Please explain.

 

[boholikeu]

Na I'm with you here. The Crusades were largely political in the intent of its 'major players' simply because Jerusalem was a pretty important trade point, and the papacy greatly desired to extend its reach further east.

Al Qaeda and other terrorists? I actually live here in the Middle East and I can say, whole heartedly, that they are simply afraid of change and certain western ideals. Essentially, they are afraid that if their own people should pick up on these 'evil' western ideas such as democracy and freedom of religion, their own power will eventually fade away. That is why they attack and just generally cause a ruckus.

The wiping out of the Native Americans? Granted, religion did play a part here, but as always, it was more of an excuse as opposed to something else. Generally when you have new societies meet, the stronger and more advanced one takes advantage of the other one, and through greed and lust eventually strike at them maliciously.

The oddly named 'Wars of Religion' of the, I believe, 17th century? Pretty much almost solely political. German princes converted to Protestantism to try and become autonomous. There was actually a period here where, for decades, the French and Swedish went around pillaging and murdering the Germans for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

The stopping of progress? Well, many ancient texts throughout the Dark Ages were preserved by clergymen. During the Renaissance, many philosophers and such (Petrarch comes to mind here) were actually intensely religious, though that may have been a cultural aspect more than anything.

Of course, now days it could be argued that religion, in the WEST, is actually stopping progress in certain areas, yes.

And really, the whole "the Church stopped progress for hundreds of years!!!" only applies to the West. Take pre-Islamic Arabia. Largely nomadic, splintered into small groups of tribes and cities, and, in the contemporary sense mind you, fairly barbaric in their practices. Once Islam starts to spread, and the Abbasid Empire is formed, Baghdad becomes a city of Enlightenment. Really, if it had not been destroyed the Mongols, the Middle East would be a -very- different place. They theorized evolution in plants, learned the circumference of the world, learned about the heliocentric cycle, made advances in medicine and math, and not to mention astronomy.. It was the Renaissance, well, BEFORE the Renaissance.

Then there is of course India, where most of the people are still largely spiritual and religious. Yes, mock the country if you must, but it is making strides in technology and education as well.

This is not all to say that religion is a universally good force..God no. It has been a very -bad- thing at times, and has certainly affected certain societies in a negative matter. I would certainly say that certain atheists have it right in that aspect. I would argue though, that if religion never started up, we would have an equal force that would cause many issues that we see today. Humanity is just a very war-hungry race, and no matter what we do, there will ALWAYS be people who view their answers as the only answers, and their way of life the CORRECT way of life.

Yup, my point exactly. What's more:

1) I wouldn't really categorize the wiping out of Native Americans as a religious issue. Even those that converted weren't treated all that well. It was really just a land grab under the guise of spreading the gospel.

2) People that claim "the church stopped progress for hundreds of years!" often conveniently forget about the advances in art and architecture that it funded during the same time period. Also, it could be argued that the scientific revolution would not have been possible without the church's push for higher education during the middle ages.

If the bible is full of stories then couldn't the story of christ and god also be a story? ( I believe it is as I am an atheist, but I'm just asking your point of view on this.)

A Christian would tell you that's part of the point. It could be a story, but you choose to believe it anyway.

That right there is why they call is blind stupidity, umm I mean faith.

And why is faith stupid?

The Crusades were in response to Muslims invading and overtaking Jerusalem and then forbidding any non-Muslims from entering its walls.
One can not simply dismiss the religious fervour and rhetoric that surrounded the entire thing as being secondary.

It might not be secondary, but it certainly wasn't the main reason, either. To make a claim like that you'd have to completely disregard the strategic and economic importance of the area. Do you honestly think people would have never fought over the Middle East if religion didn't exist?

 

[SilentCom]

The dark ages and the notion that all humans are equal.

Hang on, who isnt equal in your eyes?
Sure, filthy degenerate murderers and rapists are low... but we are all equal? No?
Please explain.

I think he means that people aren't equal because people aren't exactly the same as each other. The whole notion of equality in western civilization really has to do with democracy and religion, one person = one vote and every person is equal "under God." The truth of the matter is that there will never be complete equality because people won't be exactly the same. The closest to complete equality humanity seems to be able to get to is the notion of fair ("equal") treatment of each other. Keep in mind this is an ideal that isn't always put into practice.

 

[Casual Shinji]

After reading the title of this thread I somehow expected to not be up to my elbows in the dribble of smug atheists.

Silly me.

OT. Worst fail in humanity: Getting rid of large amounts religious scriptures because the church felt threatened by them. Like the gospel of Judas. That's a lot of historical knowledge down the drain.

 

[icame]

Religion. All of them. No single incident of death will ever do more damage than religion has. Their casualty numbers still going strong.

I'd like to, as a former atheist, offer a thought; perhaps it is not the religion that is flawed, but those who practice it? At least, I found myself opening up to the concept once I realized it wasn't god or the church I despised, it was the people that used it to justify things like intolerance and oppression. I'm a christian, I do not hate gay people at all (some of my friends are gay), and I am not opposed to their getting married. We're not all bible thumping retards out to wag our smug fingers at people that do wrong, in fact christians aren't even really supposed to be doing that.

Simply, my point is that maybe it's not the club, but the members, you should resent.


*soapbox ends*

You...

It's just surprising to see anybody write that... I thought we were in a world divided between "Christians" and Atheists, Christians who throw every verse in the bible at gays or atheists and only show ignorance and hate (they are either hypocrites or morons), and athiests who believe God is rubbish simply because of the flaws of the people that worship him...

I thought someone who sees past this, someone like you, didn't exist, I was wrong thankfully.

Peace to everyone, no matter their sexual orientation or beliefs, that will be all.

Really? I thought most atheists don't believe in god because of the scientific impossibilities (Not to mention plot holes the size of a battleship), in the bible, and because many of the teachings are rubbish (Ex. Homosexuality is wrong.) At least, that is why me and the atheists I know do >.> Doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to not believe in something because a lot of people that practice a religion are ignorant.

Atheists read the bible wrong (assuming they even read some of it), it wasn't meant to be a book of science at all, allot of the stories can be seen as merely symbolic and not literal occurrences. It was meant to teach faith through the examples it gives and PEOPLE were used to write it, they saw things happen and interpreted it in their own primitive way (it was a primitive time) and wrote it down to teach the lessons of faith, not science. Science we can pretty much figure out for ourselves. There will be plot holes, sure but that is either because we haven't studied it well or didn't make the right conclusions or simply because of the fact that the bible has been written by humans who only wrote what they saw, which left some flaws in the writing and then got further flawed when it was rewritten and reinterpreted a hundred times over and from one language to a different language each time.

Whether or not the "homosexuality is wrong" writing was part of this series of disastrous rewritings is for the reader to decide, and whatever you decide, you can't go judging or hating others for doing something you interpreted as wrong, it's not your place to judge them, they need to sort themselves out and according to true Christian teachings (according to my opinion) you can only care for people, let God judge them. Also, you don't go to hell for being homosexual, and it is the opinion of some that the ACT of homosexual sex is the sin, not being homosexual.

I myself personally think that the scriptures on homosexuality desperately need reevaluation because the writer of one of the bible scriptures that I know of that wrote it as a sin was listing it amongst other sins and probably didn't really understand homosexuality and was threatened by it and thus interpreted it as sin.

Allot of what I say could be wrong, I'm not an expert at debating and I can't always explain things properly.

Also, you might not have a need for faith and that's fine and really not my business but this is just what I think.

I thought it was supposed to be a book of ultimate truths? If it is then shouldn't everything it in be correct? Shouldn't every teaching be perfect? Shouldn't there be no plot holes, and nothing that goes against the laws of our universe (Science)? If this book is so full of truth how can anything in it need reevaluation? If the rules it sets forth can simply be changed when it is required what is the point of believing in it at all, but thats just my thinking I suppose.

I also have only noticed people calling the stories metaphors only when it has been proved to either be impossible or never happened at all, but I could be wrong.

Hmmmm, where does it say this in the bible? About it being the ultimate truth in science?
I need to check that.

And yes, we can reevaluate it. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

And men have made it flawed and it was written to teach FAITH, everything it talks about is on the topic of FAITH so if it says "all truth" then it is the truth of faith which is the secret to the deeper purpose of the universe (in our belief) so yes, it is in a way the ultimate truth.

I said that if a book is supposed to be the ultimate truth then everything in it should be correct, no? If things in it are impossible, such as creating something from nothing, then how can it be seen as the truth, and how can anything in it be taken seriously?

Never read the bible so I didn't know about that particular bit of scripture. Thanks.

In response to the last sentence... what? o_o

 

[mjc0961]

Religion. All of them. No single incident of death will ever do more damage than religion has. Their casualty numbers still going strong.

Edit: I wont bother responding anymore. I firmly stand by my view on this though. But I am being called a villian for hating something that hated me first for being different.

I am not wrong for hating murderers. I am not wrong for hating people who trample on freedom. I am not wrong for being for equal rights. Those all describe what religion often is.

And no, Im not a troll. A troll just wants to anger people. I merely want a better world.

I think I'm going to have to agree with this. And if anyone wants to mock that or say that religion's problem is small time, I would suggest some history lessons. Hell, part of the reason why there was so much death in WWII is because Hitler decided "Jews must die." That one isn't the Jews picking a fight (much like the numerous other incidents that can be found where one religion did pick a fight with some other guys), but still; no religion = no Jews for Hitler to slaughter for no reason other than them being Jews.

Also, there'd be a hell of a lot less bullshit fighting over "holy land" in the middle east if not for religion.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm sure I've been ninja'd, but Thomas Midgely Junior.

Epic Fail Guy.

 

[boholikeu]

You are right. Many, if not most, seemingly "religious disputes" are just covers for simple human greed. But my point is that, the institutionalization of religion (I hate typing that word. So many letters) actually ALLOWS this tactic to be used OVER and OVER and OVER again. THAT'S what's bad.

I don't think Faith is bad either. Believe whatever you WANT to believe. I honestly don't care. If you use your faith to harm others, you will be prosecuted like anyone else. But when a group uses it's combined sense of Faith (aka Religion) as an excuse for evil practices.....that's a no-no.

Faith should be personal. Not an institution. Hence Religion is bad. Faith is not.

Again, I would disagree. I think that a communal sense of faith is one of the major benefits of religion. Faith should certainly be personal, but that doesn't automatically preclude it from being governed by a shared set of ideals.

It seems to me you are more against the forced institutionalization of faith. In that case, I would agree. Faith always requires a conscious choice (otherwise it wouldn't be faith!), but that doesn't mean you can't choose from a number of set philosophies (IE different religions).

I also have only noticed people calling the stories metaphors only when it has been proved to either be impossible or never happened at all, but I could be wrong.

Well, of course. If it's been proved false then it isn't a matter of faith anymore, is it? =)

 

[tigermilk]

Much as making a "top 100" feels a little tasteless I think the Rwandan holocaust is worth mentioning and the Catholic Church creating a safe haven for peadophiles and refusing to fully co-operate with the police.

 

[boholikeu]

I think I'm going to have to agree with this. And if anyone wants to mock that or say that religion's problem is small time, I would suggest some history lessons.

Interesting, I'd suggest the same for anyone who thought religion was the primary cause of all this suffering.

Hell, part of the reason why there was so much death in WWII is because Hitler decided "Jews must die." That one isn't the Jews picking a fight (much like the numerous other incidents that can be found where one religion did pick a fight with some other guys), but still; no religion = no Jews for Hitler to slaughter for no reason other than them being Jews.

There would have still been plenty of ethnic and social groups for him to target though.

Also, there'd be a hell of a lot less bullshit fighting over "holy land" in the middle east if not for religion.

So are you saying that area of the world holds no economic and strategic significance aside from being the center of some world religions?

 

[A-D.]

Since somehow this has entirely derailed into a Discussion about Religion for the most part, im going to be a good troll and eat your bait...wait no i wont. Im just throwing my 2 cents into it and watch you go nuts.

Organized Religion is the most epic Fail in Human History, ever. It cant be beaten, nothing before or after compares to the senseless Death organized Religion has caused in many forms. That does not just mean the Catholic Church, or Muslims, or Jews or Buddhists or whatever else Religion may come up in the future. Everything can be misused, in every single Religion for one Reason or another. Lets look at Mr. Bush for a second. He thought going to War was because God told him to. Which God? I mean apparently every Religion has one God. So which one was it? Wait, which one is right even? or is there only one God? Several? What?

Thats more recent, lets go back a few Years. When Little Adolf went about his Jew-hating, what did the Catholic Church do? Nothing. Why? "Well its not our Religion". Lets go back a couple hundred Years from there. Crusades, the Inquisition. Why? Because someone believed not in God, or in a different God, or it was simply used so they could get the Land, as in, the Church gets it. Couple more hundred Years, how about the Romans going after the Jews and Christians due to their "new Religion"? Lions in the Colliseum and all that you know. Or Egypt? You know, the whole Moses Story. The list goes on.

Faith in something, whichever it is, is not wrong. Organized Religion which claims that only their view of the world is right is what is wrong. Now granted most have come around in recent Years, but it does not absolve them from past Deeds. Just because a Serial Killer stops killing and helps People does not excuse what he did before, the same goes for Religion and by extension Countries. The Reputation sticks. Organized Religion, as long as it exists, can and will be misused for War or other Things by anyone who deems it necessary to gain any advantage.

Does not make Religion itself bad, knock yourself out, believe in what you will. Just stop pointing at some Religion and going "Oh yeah, im with those Guys" because at the end of the Day, "those Guys" are also the same fanatic nutjobs who would but you in iron boots and pour molten iron into it. Or cut off your Breasts (in case you are a Woman), or burn you at the Stake or..do i need to go on?

So yeah, let People believe what they want to believe and just outlaw organized Religion because some damn Idiot will use it for War or whatever again and again anyway.

 

[jacobschndr]

Evolution, live was so much more simple when we were still in the ocean.

You should read Douglas Adams. He has similar opinions. A quote from the first page of Hitchhiker's Guide: "Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."

 

[MarsProbe]

Re-electing the SNP. Okay, so maybe not the greatest fail in the history of humanity (given that such a thing is largely limited to our tiny cash-strapped joke of a country) but hey, just what we don't need in a leader right now - a smug, arrogant fool obsessed with his quaint vanity projects such as independence and a "new" national anthem along with the crazy notion that we should ditch nuclear and get all our energy for renewables by 2020. If that's the case, I better be living on the Citadel by then.

/rant over

Other than that, cultural stagnation and the current proliferation of so-called reality tv. Two things which may or may not be connected.

 

[JordanXlord]

...2 words...FOX NEWS...

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

It seems to me you are more against the forced institutionalization of faith. In that case, I would agree. Faith always requires a conscious choice (otherwise it wouldn't be faith!), but that doesn't mean you can't choose from a number of set philosophies (IE different religions).

That's the thing isn't it. Religion doesn't allow faith to be a "conscious choice". My parents are Muslim and hence, I had been taught from a very young age that there is only one God called Allah and forced to pray, and to read the Quran (in Arabic, a language I never even UNDERSTOOD, no less).etc.etc. And by "forced", I mean my parents just told me to do it, because it's simply "The Way it works", and I listened because, that's what a child does.

It's only in my teen years that I managed to figure out waay too many loop-holes in the religion's structure for me to just "accept it", at which point I decided to no longer practice it. I'm LUCKY that my parents are relatively liberal and hence took it into stride.

BUT What if I was a kid from fucking Afghanistan? Would my Taliban dad be so accepting of my "choice"? Or would I be Stoned to death in front of a live audience?

 

[boholikeu]

I realize you probably just meant this as a joke, but...

Does not make Religion itself bad, knock yourself out, believe in what you will. Just stop pointing at some Religion and going "Oh yeah, im with those Guys" because at the end of the Day, "those Guys" are also the same fanatic nutjobs who would but you in iron boots and pour molten iron into it. Or cut off your Breasts (in case you are a Woman), or burn you at the Stake or..do i need to go on?

Doesn't the above hold true for associating yourself with any social institution (say, political group, nation, or cultural group)? Heck, some atheists have done some pretty horrible things in the past too, so are you sure you want to associate yourself with them?

So yeah, let People believe what they want to believe and just outlaw organized Religion because some damn Idiot will use it for War or whatever again and again anyway.

So, you can believe what you want, just as long as you don't get together with other people and organize yourselves behind that belief? Right, that doesn't sound evil =)

What would the punishments for creating an organized religion be?

 

[jacobschndr]

Wow, never thought this thread would get this much response.

OT: The reason I believe WWII got the top pick is it wasn't just military lives lost or civilion casulties due to fighting. It was also the holocaust, the japanese death marches, the outright lies told to the german people, the slaughter the Red army gave to the german people. All of these reasons on top of the 77 million lives lost make it number one in EPIC FAILS

 

[boholikeu]

It seems to me you are more against the forced institutionalization of faith. In that case, I would agree. Faith always requires a conscious choice (otherwise it wouldn't be faith!), but that doesn't mean you can't choose from a number of set philosophies (IE different religions).

That's the thing isn't it. Religion doesn't allow faith to be a "conscious choice". My parents are Muslim and hence, I had been taught from a very young age that there is only one God called Allah and forced to pray, and to read the Quran (in Arabic, a language I never even UNDERSTOOD, no less).etc.etc. And by "forced", I mean my parents just told me to do it, because it's simply "The Way it works", and I listened because, that's what a child does.

It's only in my teen years that I managed to figure out waay too many loop-holes in the religion's structure for me to just "accept it", at which point I decided to no longer practice it. I'm LUCKY that my parents are relatively liberal and hence took it into stride.

BUT What if I was a kid from fucking Afghanistan? Would my Taliban dad be so accepting of my "choice"? Or would I be Stoned to death in front of a live audience?

Again, it sounds more like you are against the institutionalization of religion rather than just having an organized and structured faith.

The very fact that you mention you parents are liberal enough to take your choices in stride shows that religion does not entail forcing a belief on to others.

Heck, there are even some religions that say it's okay to believe in other religions. Buddhism and Shintoism operate like this. To my knowledge most classical religions were this way too.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

It seems to me you are more against the forced institutionalization of faith. In that case, I would agree. Faith always requires a conscious choice (otherwise it wouldn't be faith!), but that doesn't mean you can't choose from a number of set philosophies (IE different religions).

That's the thing isn't it. Religion doesn't allow faith to be a "conscious choice". My parents are Muslim and hence, I had been taught from a very young age that there is only one God called Allah and forced to pray, and to read the Quran (in Arabic, a language I never even UNDERSTOOD, no less).etc.etc. And by "forced", I mean my parents just told me to do it, because it's simply "The Way it works", and I listened because, that's what a child does.

It's only in my teen years that I managed to figure out waay too many loop-holes in the religion's structure for me to just "accept it", at which point I decided to no longer practice it. I'm LUCKY that my parents are relatively liberal and hence took it into stride.

BUT What if I was a kid from fucking Afghanistan? Would my Taliban dad be so accepting of my "choice"? Or would I be Stoned to death in front of a live audience?

Again, it sounds more like you are against the institutionalization of religion rather than just having an organized and structured faith.

The very fact that you mention you parents are liberal enough to take your choices in stride shows that religion does not entail forcing a belief on to others.

Heck, there are even some religions that say it's okay to believe in other religions. Buddhism and Shintoism operate like this. To my knowledge most classical religions were this way too.

I guess you could say that, sure.

Though I'd like to clarify that my parents accepting my views is NOT a point for my Religion. It is a point for my parents, who are NOT following the religion as accurately as it would like them to. My Religion dictates that I HAVE to pray or I'm a heathen who will go to hell. That is what the "institution" thinks. It's just that the one's who are expected to enforce that rule, have cut me some slack....