"What do you want to do when you leave school?" and people's reactions to my answer.

Recommended Videos

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
Shoqiyqa said:
Vault101 said:
can anyone tell me what army is REALLY like? for some reason it facinates me, mabye too many games...
Home wasn't really the home I wanted. I'm not sure I live there any more and I can't live here.
Six years of my life in the fucking army.
Six years of dickheads telling me I know nothing because they have stripes.
Six years of working at some pretty damned unsociable hours.
Six years of working with some utter shits.
I've had to take courses in which we were told that "when a ball is thrown, two forces act on it, these are it's velocity and gravity." Any students of GCSE English Language and/or Physics, feel free to laugh. "As it reaches the top of it's trajectory," they told us, "velocity ceases to act on it and gravity starts to act on it."
I've been pushed away from a computer (yes, physically), by someone who thought I didn't know what I was doing, despite the fact I'd been doing the damned job for two years. When I tried to explain this he got angry. He then showed me a lot of stuff I already knew, then showed me how to do the job ... and spent half an hour getting utterly shite results, while telling me I would get good ones eventually if I persevered and learned from him. I went back to the way I'd been doing it before and got results five times better in half the time.
I've put up with verbal abuse and worse for years.
I've been seriously dressed-down for calling someone an immature little prick after months of highly offensive verbal abuse.
I've been falsely accused of deliberately withholding information from a colleague to make her look bad, and the sergeant who dealt with that accusation told me to my face that he didn't care how often it had happened or even whether it had happened at all and that my job was to get along with the others on my watch, including the one who told him that lie, and not cause any dissension that could make him look bad. He also sent a clueless little shit round to get in my way and go over work I'd already done in a highly irritating manner, causing us to miss out on reporting some high-priority events. Having recognised the events in question, an hour late and on the fourth attempt, he told me to "start switching on". Once upon a time I'd have killed him for that, right there on the office carpet.

...

Our new supervisor, however, doesn't {specific stuff} and knows fuck-all about {specific stuff}. He's quite happy to tell us this over and over again, and also quite happy to tell me who's good at the job and who isn't even though he knows, by his own admission, precisely fuck-all about it. Nice.

... and that left Charlotte, who couldn't have been more of a man-hating proto-dyke if she'd worn a dalmatian-fur coat and smoked through a cigarette-holder. She was full of shit and full of herself. She had no faith at all in anyone else and thought anyone in a green suit was stupid and men were all totally useless. She got put in charge of the section. The only explanation available is that of a former colleague: "Yes, but she does have a pussy." If you'd met our supervisor, you'd understand. He's a chauvinist, a bully, a lout, obsessed with his own rank and status and rather fond of brown noses.

...

I sent off a collection of one day's mistakes to the senior transcriber, who referred it upwards to the expert, who emailed me back, agreeing with every single thing I'd picked up, agreeing with what I said was wrong, agreeing with what I said was really going on, agreeing with me on whether there was enough evidence or not and saying he'd have to check up on everyone's skills because it was ridiculous that supposedly experienced operators were making such basic and fundamental mistakes. ... It would have been vaguely gratifying to have people all over the planet laughing at such a fucking ridiculous report. Such a shame it never went out. The thing is that it was obviously bollocks, but she flapped and panicked and jumped up and down and yelled and never thought and this is the ***** that our dumb bastard of a supe put in charge. Yeah. Me? Bitter? No shit, Sherlock.

...

You'd think six years in the regular army, including three and a half as an NCO in the Intelligence Corps, would count as valuable work experience even if you can't tell people what you did. Well, it doesn't. You won't get that promotion, you won't get to Cyprus, you won't go on those operations, you won't get any qualifications you can take away, you won't get any experience you can share, you won't get to go on any of the things they tell you about in the office, you won't get the cost of the hotel in which you had to stay while on a course you had to attend paid back to you, you won't get to keep the overseas-duty pay they've already given you, you won't get even a week's notice that it'll be deducted from your next pay packet, you won't get your payslips for six months, some of you won't get your pay some months, your boots are supplied by the lowest bidder and will give you blisters inside a mile if you don't run around in them so often your feet are one big callus, your trainers are supplied by the lowest bidder and you will suffer more lower-leg injuries in basic training than you have in the two decades preceding it and your rifle's twice as heavy as an M16 and half as reliable. The doctor prescribes yoga lessons for sprains, stress, diabetes and lesions on the testes. The only place to go other than your room or your mate's room is the bar. The nearest place to do something other than drink is ten miles away.
I wonder whether I could sue them for breach of contract. What a fucking waste of time. I don't even know whether I was correctly paid. Is "We can't find anyone to promote you" a valid reason for delaying a promotion?
When I left, they gave me a questionnaire to fill in. It said they wouldn't try to trace me. The first few questions included: gender, age, region of last posting, regt or corps, rank, time in post and time in service. One of the questions was "What advice would you give to someone thinking of joining the Army?" How about "Don't"? How about "Try prostitution instead"?
Twenty-eight years old and slightly less employable than most 16-year-olds. Marvellous.
Fuck the lot of them and any piece of paper I ever signed. What a load of shite. What a waste of the thousands and thousands of decent young men (and maybe even decent young women, although I doubt decent young women go off to join the army very often) stuck in that shitball.
well I guess all I can say Is I'm sorry to hear your experience wasn't that great

Though I'm sure there are decent young women who join the army for what ever reason, and I would have full respect for any who did because they felt it was what they wanted to do..because lets face it Women and the army haven't always mixed together that well (the statistics related to rape/harrasment)
 

MikeOfThunder

New member
Jul 11, 2009
436
0
0
Octorok said:
I plan on applying to Officer Selection for the Sandhurst Military Academy
Hope to see you there! My plan, as it has been for some time, is to apply for Officer selection in two years time, once i'm in shape and have completed my degree. I've been working on it for some time now, I have a good build just still have a fair bit of fat on me despite losing a great deal over the past two years.

"Murdering murder" - love the phrase!

I find most people either say how proud they would be and/or how its very dangerous and "not to go in as cannon fodder" (this line has been pitched to me by three different people).
 

Death God

New member
Jul 6, 2010
1,754
0
0
Octorok said:
You can't negotiate with the enemy we have currently to any real extent. This isn't a conflict between two countries' armies, who can formally agree to a truce. This is a scattered guerrilla enemy that relies on ambushes and the will of their soldiers to deliver bullets and bombs, no matter the danger.
True but if every country started with spies and negotiators it would be simpler. And much less violent.
 

Canid117

New member
Oct 6, 2009
4,075
0
0
PayJ567 said:
These people probably don't want to see you come back horribly disfigured and with no legs or something like that.

Being in the military is a fine job just expect to die, cause you will die or end up worse off.
And you know this from personal experience?
 

Mozared

New member
Mar 26, 2009
1,607
0
0
Well, it sounds like it's just average stupid people for you, but why you would want to join the army so badly for kind of is beyond me.
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
MikeOfThunder said:
Octorok said:
I plan on applying to Officer Selection for the Sandhurst Military Academy
Hope to see you there! My plan, as it has been for some time, is to apply for Officer selection in two years time, once i'm in shape and have completed my degree. I've been working on it for some time now, I have a good build just still have a fair bit of fat on me despite losing a great deal over the past two years.

"Murdering murder" - love the phrase!

I find most people either say how proud they would be and/or how its very dangerous and "not to go in as cannon fodder" (this line has been pitched to me by three different people).
Might see you, but chances are I'll be applying in more than two years. Two years from now and I will, just, be old enough, but I wasn't planning on going directly from school into RMAS, I was going to travel and get fit a bit more for a year or so at least.
Rockchimp69 said:
I feel kind of ashamed to say that I also laugh at a kid in the year below me about wanting to join the army. Although it's really because I think he doesn't understand the reality of the kind of danger he could get himself in. Not because I think that it's stupid to join the army.
Fair enough, I get the whole mentality. These days you get people who play CoD and think they have what it takes to be a l337 soljar, but I'm mature enough to be aware of my decision, and of the fact that I'm still young enough that I haven't exactly had much experience to make said decision.
Lerxst said:
Here's the scary part about the military and what lingers in the backs of other people's minds that causes them to be frightened when a kid (sorry, I can have kids your age so you qualify as a "kid" in my books) decides to join the military.

The result of a military, any military, anywhere is one thing - dead people. You could be a mechanic but your job is still to maintain the vehicles used to kill the enemy. You could be a medic and your job is to treat people so they can continue to kill an enemy. You may have your own personal agenda that doesn't involve killing people but it doesn't change the historic purpose and role of a military.

I live in the US. I had friends and family serve in the Army and Air Force back in the 90's. Something completely unexpected happened in 2001 and suddenly those people who joined simply for a good salary with benefits were being shipped to Afghanistan or Iraq where they were given guns and told to point them at an enemy and pull the trigger.

It's one thing if you're ignorant when you join and don't think about the purpose your role serves in the overall goal of the military. It's another thing to be fully aware and still have the desire to join. That's what makes people nervous. If you know full well why the military exists and you still want to join, it shows others that you have a desire to kill people or promote violence against others. You may be clicking a button on a drone that takes surveillance pictures, but those pictures are eventually going to be used as a weapon as well when orders are given to attack them.

I'm talking about a volunteer military of course, not a draft.

I know full well what I'm talking about. I graduated college and was planning on entering the Air Force for officer's training in January of 2002. Then something happened in 2001 and the reaction of the country after that, made me realize I didn't want to be a part of that mentality.

So think it through first.
I'm not only fully aware that I would be asked to kill enemy soldiers, I accept it pretty happily. I know - I'm young, no experience etc., but I believe very strongly in battling terrorism, and have no moral qualms about being asked to end the life of someone trying to kill me, my friends and people I know.

And the ideal of being young and having the aspiration, is being able to think it through. I have years before I'd have to make the plunge, in which time I could change my mind or do something else. I'm just prepared, now, for this to be my career.

I know quite a few soldiers and ex-soldiers, and even a few future soldiers. And my family has a military background. My grandfather won the DSO, DSC and numerous campaign medals. Two of my cousins are in the cavalry, one the infantry, and a few old family friends are ex-Royal Marines, and ex-Black Watch.

I hear a lot from them that encourages me to go forward and follow my goal.
 

Lerxst

New member
Mar 30, 2008
269
0
0
Octorok said:
I'm not only fully aware that I would be asked to kill enemy soldiers, I accept it pretty happily. I know - I'm young, no experience etc., but I believe very strongly in battling terrorism, and have no moral qualms about being asked to end the life of someone trying to kill me, my friends and people I know.

And the ideal of being young and having the aspiration, is being able to think it through. I have years before I'd have to make the plunge, in which time I could change my mind or do something else. I'm just prepared, now, for this to be my career.

I know quite a few soldiers and ex-soldiers, and even a few future soldiers. And my family has a military background. My grandfather won the DSO, DSC and numerous campaign medals. Two of my cousins are in the cavalry, one the infantry, and a few old family friends are ex-Royal Marines, and ex-Black Watch.

I hear a lot from them that encourages me to go forward and follow my goal.
And I'll repeat:

That's what makes people nervous. If you know full well why the military exists and you still want to join, it shows others that you have a desire to kill people or promote violence against others.
But now for this:

I believe very strongly in battling terrorism
The biggest myth Bush created for the 21st century is that you can actually battle terrorism. You know the phrase, "violence begets violence" by Martin Luther King Jr?

The problem with "kids" these days joining the military is that they have no knowledge of the world. Things you learn in high school/secondary school don't begin to count as knowledge. Right now the only thing filling your brains are the texts from school and ideas of family and friends. Get out in the world and learn it for yourself first-hand.

Learn your history, read some literature and for the love of god, learn to use your brain for yourself! The worst thing that can happen to anyone is being told what to do without ever once using their god given intelligence to figure it out for themselves - how do you think terrorists recruit their ranks?

If you want to learn about war, research Oscar Schindler, visit the Vietnam War Memorial (In the US of course) make friends with people who live(d) in the areas you're going to be fighting in; learn about the aftermath and the collateral damage caused. I have a friend from Sarajevo who has stories that would make your spine shiver... things no school is going to tell you about, things no military will admit to and things most soldiers never see.

A decent movie to watch would be "Born on the 4th of July", just to get you started. About a "kid" brainwashed into thinking fighting in Vietnam was a noble cause...
 

El Poncho

Techno Hippy will eat your soul!
May 21, 2009
5,890
0
0
Maybe the thought of someone they know possibly dieing in a war worries them to they try to ward you off it in different ways. At least you have an idea what to do, so for i'm striving for nothing in perticular and because of all the studying/homework i'm required to do I have barely enough time to research different jobs to see what I would like to do.
 

Ham_authority95

New member
Dec 8, 2009
3,496
0
0
Octorok said:
Being just shy of 16, this question crops up a lot from other teenagers, comparing notes on future plans, and adults, curious to see the direction I want to go.

However, when I answer this question truthfully, people react in a variety of odd ways. I plan on applying to Officer Selection for the Sandhurst Military Academy, as I want to join the Royal Regiment of Scotland, 3rd Battalion (my local chunk of the Infantry). Upon hearing this, despite knowing my character (while nerd-like, if I didn't play computer games I'd be about as stereotypical as British officers get in Scotland), people are invariably shocked, or at least surprised.

My friends tend to laugh it off a bit, my teachers seem too polite to say, "No, you're stupid, go write books." and other people in my age group either condemn me as some kind of murdering murderer, suicidal, or just wrong somewhere because I have no interest in studying a pointless degree at a university, before going into a depressing office job.

Why on Earth does this happen? Do people just hate the army now? Or do I look and sound different from how I thought I looked and sounded for the past 16 years?

I can sort of get behind the idea that I look kinda lanky, and my friends know I'm lazy, but in the cases for people who literally have no way of gauging whether or not I could successfully command men on a battlefield, or perform duty under extreme pressure, they still seem to think that either I'm wrong somewhere in the brain, or I'm just trying to sound heroic and impressive.
Only 30-50% of the military, in any country, actually gets to hold a weapon, much less shoot it.

I don't know what people where you live are so paranoid about...
 

Pariah87

New member
Jul 9, 2009
934
0
0
Ignore people who think negatively about the path you want to take, everyone is wired differently and some people feel the need to follow a certain call.

Like you, I could have had my pick of career paths, but the idea of working the same hours at the same place, day in day out, or having to wear a suit or smart clothes...having to become something I'm not simply because I had the "ability" just pissed me off. Granted I didn't know what I wanted to do instead and spent 5 years in a really low paid mundane job but I finally found the path I wish to take. I want to be a long distance lorry driver, the lifestyle suits me perfectly, the pay is adequate and I know I would love the job. That gets a fair amount of negative feedback but it's my life, it's my choice and if I'm happy, sod everyone else.

Try and have that mindset, if it's something you want then you have to go for it, we're only here once and to live your life trying to make others happy just isn't worth it.
 

Rockchimp69

New member
Dec 4, 2010
427
0
0
PayJ567 said:
Canid117 said:
PayJ567 said:
These people probably don't want to see you come back horribly disfigured and with no legs or something like that.

Being in the military is a fine job just expect to die, cause you will die or end up worse off.
And you know this from personal experience?
No but if you look at the odds of dying or getting some disease or post traumatic stress and all that jazz. You should expect to get something yourself.
I doubt their very high when there isn't a full blown war on.
 

KiKiweaky

New member
Aug 29, 2008
972
0
0
Octorok said:
A guy I know is in the army, yes Ireland has one too D:

Infantry no officer training or anything, he aint the brighest guy in the world but he is really nice genuine fella. I truly believe the army saved him, he was involced in all sorts before he left school none of it good and would either end up dead or in jail at the rate he was going.

Whenever people ask him about it, 'They tend to ask him, hows the army going?' Which drives him insane, he says 'It's just a job'. I guess I would have been in the same boat reffering to it as the army, it isnt exactly what most people would call a regular job. Your trained to fight and kill if neccesary. So I dont find it surprising that people are little surprised by your choice.

I'd imagine they think your probably going for 'teh gunz' not realising that officer training is a genuine career in the military that, if you make the grade pays well I'm told. Best of luck with it anyway.

Out of interest can you apply for officer training as soon as you leave school? Or do they only take older applicants?
 

Hashime

New member
Jan 13, 2010
2,538
0
0
I think some people in general are confused at the difference between joining the army and becoming an officer. Army officers are smart people. Pilots, Ship captains, intelligence officers, strategists. It is not a last ditch attempt.
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
Lerxst said:
Thanks, but I'm not entirely sure that movie is going to teach me much. Don't assume that I've been brainwashed into this. This is the UK - if anything children like me are actually discouraged from joining the army. It's a mix of my interests, strengths and passions, and I'm friends with people who all say that it's a real blast.

Like I said - I had to choose to do this, against a lot of pressure from people around me, and it's like I said. I'm still a kid, and have years to finalise my choice.

There's no need to assume that because I personally believe that it is necessary, if nigh impossible to win, to battle the threats to hearth and home from terrorist organisations all over the world. It's not even anything to do with the whole, "rally round the flag" Bush mentality. I even believe in fighting the IRA, and the US never exactly considered them a threat.

Someone has to stop civilians from living under any kind of threat from such an enemy.

And, on an unrelated note - this is the UK. Our education is crap. Of course I'm learning nothing in High School, let alone believing it. I just turn up to see my friends, and to pass exams.

You seem to be confusing Iraq with Afghanistan. Iraq, I agree, was a genuine debated topic. Bush had to try and convince people to go there, in the fight against "terrsm". Afghanistan, however, is teeming with people who attack security forces, civilians etc., with the ultimate goal of attacking civilians in our home countries. Think about this - they're no less brainwashed than kids in Vietnam were.

People off to fight in Vietnam were told, "It's OK, son. Those aren't good people. They're commies, gooks! Stem the red tide!" and all that. The people we kill every day in Helmand aren't all bloodthirsty lunatics, but some are child soldiers, told to fight the invaders for a place in their paradise. They are convinced they are doing the right thing, just as we do.
Pariah87 said:
Ignore people who think negatively about the path you want to take, everyone is wired differently and some people feel the need to follow a certain call.

Like you, I could have had my pick of career paths, but the idea of working the same hours at the same place, day in day out, or having to wear a suit or smart clothes...having to become something I'm not simply because I had the "ability" just pissed me off. Granted I didn't know what I wanted to do instead and spent 5 years in a really low paid mundane job but I finally found the path I wish to take. I want to be a long distance lorry driver, the lifestyle suits me perfectly, the pay is adequate and I know I would love the job. That gets a fair amount of negative feedback but it's my life, it's my choice and if I'm happy, sod everyone else.

Try and have that mindset, if it's something you want then you have to go for it, we're only here once and to live your life trying to make others happy just isn't worth it.
It's extremely hard to get that across to people who just can't understand that mindset. It's nice to hear that someone does what they enjoy, rather than what others say they should do.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

New member
Sep 26, 2009
8,617
0
0
Bah, people are just automatically think that someone in the army is someone who fights in wars. And those people who are quick to stand on the soap box and preach about wars and violence and how they are bad...
 

Shoqiyqa

New member
Mar 31, 2009
1,266
0
0
Those talking about getting fit are right. If you're going to go for it you want to be insanely fit before you even start, so two hours' PT a day and five hours' sleep a night won't leave you unfit to attend lessons. It'd probably be good to go hiking and orienteering first too, and take a first aid course if you can find and afford one, because fit or not you will lose quarter-hours during those classroom lessons.

Alternative view on surveillance pictures: do that job well enough and you can tell the guys in the F-16s where to drop their bombs that isn't a school full of kids or a wedding party. Of course, the zoom-boom boys in their speed jeans have flown from the Indian Ocean to the target area and stayed sharp by popping methamphetamine along the way, so they might still get it wrong.

Lerxst said:
The biggest myth Bush created for the 21st century is that you can actually battle terrorism. You know the phrase, "violence begets violence" by Martin Luther King Jr?

The problem with "kids" these days joining the military is that they have no knowledge of the world. Things you learn in high school/secondary school don't begin to count as knowledge. Right now the only thing filling your brains are the texts from school and ideas of family and friends. Get out in the world and learn it for yourself first-hand.

Learn your history, read some literature and for the love of god, learn to use your brain for yourself! The worst thing that can happen to anyone is being told what to do without ever once using their god given intelligence to figure it out for themselves - how do you think terrorists recruit their ranks?

If you want to learn about war, research Oscar Schindler, visit the Vietnam War Memorial (In the US of course) make friends with people who live(d) in the areas you're going to be fighting in; learn about the aftermath and the collateral damage caused. I have a friend from Sarajevo who has stories that would make your spine shiver... things no school is going to tell you about, things no military will admit to and things most soldiers never see.
I agree with all of this except for the "(In the US of course)" part. Vietnam is open to tourism. You can go and crawl through the Cu Chi Tunnels, fire the weapons of both sides, buy some soldier's dog tags in Hanoi and return them to the charity that tries to trace the missing kids, visit My Lai*, walk (in silence) through Ho Chi Minh's mausoleum, visit the {insert name here} museum** with the photographs, personal accounts and relics from various events and, if you've got the stamina and don't mind ruining your mascara, read the names of all the victims of the My Lai massacre. They're all printed on the waist-high ledge in that corner of the museum.

You can't visit Iraq, but you can visit Syria, where they have quite a lot of Iraqi refugees. US passports tend to add an hour to the border crossing time and a fair whack to the bribe you have to pay to get across before nightfall and North American credit and cash cards just plain don't work there, but British ones work in some machines, they're surprised to meet Brits but not hostile, there are Australians and New Zealanders everywhere and of course the French and Germans voted against invading Iraq so they're okay at the moment. Parlez vous Francais? La langue d'amore peut etre tres bonne la. Try to get a tour with enough free time to let you meet people, avoid the markets where all they want is your money, buy some locals a coffee, hire an Iraqi English teacher as an interpreter or something and have a listen.

Sarajevo ... yeah. Knew someone who learned a bit too much there. He used to stay up late every night and set his alarm clock early, loud and across the room to get him up every morning then stay up and active until he was almost asleep on his feet before he'd go to bed and pass out. He didn't get a decent night's sleep in two months, but at least he didn't dream.

Yeah.

...

* If you don't know, ffs jfgi! Actually, google image search it, click on the very first image and take a look at the girl left of centre, and ask yourself how her clothes and legs came to be like that.

** The museum may be called the War Museum, the Independence Museum, the Reunification Museum, the American War Crimes Museum, the Atrocities Museum or whatever. It changes quite often.
 

Shoqiyqa

New member
Mar 31, 2009
1,266
0
0
KiKiweaky said:
Out of interest can you apply for officer training as soon as you leave school? Or do they only take older applicants?
http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/jobs/Pages/JobExplorerResults.aspx?profileid=&gender=M&qualifications=4&rank=O&jobtype=fulltime&category=0

http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/jobs/Pages/JobExplorerResults.aspx?profileid=&gender=M&qualifications=3&rank=O&jobtype=fulltime&category=0

http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/jobs/Pages/JobExplorerResults.aspx?profileid=&gender=M&qualifications=2&rank=O&jobtype=fulltime&category=0

Amusingly, Medical Officer (Doctor) comes up under "No qualifications required."

Heh. It figures.
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
Shoqiyqa said:
Those talking about getting fit are right. If you're going to go for it you want to be insanely fit before you even start, so two hours' PT a day and five hours' sleep a night won't leave you unfit to attend lessons. It'd probably be good to go hiking and orienteering first too, and take a first aid course if you can find and afford one, because fit or not you will lose quarter-hours during those classroom lessons.
Yeah, I wasn't exactly planning on going from High School, where I have happily lost fitness in front of my PC for years now, into one of the toughest physical challenges a man in the UK can face. During the time between me leaving High School and applying to Officer Selection I was planning on doing a lot of exercise. A very great deal of exercise, in fact.

Hiking isn't really an issue. Out here I could jog through muddy hills and swim chilling rivers without disturbing anything but birds and deer.

It's why I love living in the country. I needn't be crowded.