What happened to kids cartoons?

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Kingsman

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You stop possessing the ability to judge children's cartoons if you had the idea that this was for children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR6KjNmN2BA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW3Roqmfr94

I mean, I'm all for something a little more mature and whatnot, but seriously, what the fuck.

You, people who grew up on this? You frighten me. There are people who dream of being able to portray shit like this in their art.
 

Hitman Dread

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D-Ray said:
Well, what made me really realise the change in cartoons was the shows "The Regular Show" and "Adventure Time" both of which are on Cartoon Network.

The regular show is pretty random and stupid...like most now. But, once it mentioned breast...and rigby even got trapped in between these large, disgusting breasts of some fat woman. I just think its wierd to see cartoons talking about breasts, kissing, and things like that....kids are too young for that.
Adventure Time and Regular Show clearly aren't intended for children. Their entire marketing scheme and approach is clearly directed at Teenagers and college students.

Also anyone who thinks animation in America is getting worse these past few years is really not paying attention. The 2000s were DEAD for animation. EVERYONE suffered who wasn't named Pixar, even Disney went through tough times. Below is something I had previously written on my blog about the horrible 00s.


Throughout the history of animation, the cost or production has taken a roller coaster ride. What was once given away at the begining of the movies became an financial nightmare to television. By the 90s we had mastered enough production techniques to reduce to cost of animation, until HD hit. In 1998 the FCC broadcast its first signal in HD. From there a gradual creep towards HD as a selling feature it was in the early 00s caused a major spike in cost for animation, especially hand drawn animation. While computer based 2d and 3D animation could easily be converted into larger sizes with enough work, hand drawn animation that made up a large amount of televised animation at the time could only be turned HD by completely redrawing the animation, and at a far greater size.

Not only were former shows no longer marketable under the title of ?HD,? but the cost of continuing these shows skyrocketed. As if this wasn?t enough of a problem for 2D animation, things were made worse by the sudden and unparalleled success of a new face that had all the investors attention.

When Pixar continued to out perform the current Disney films in the box office, the investors came to the obvious conclusion: people only wanted to see 3D films. No, there?s no way it had anything to do with Pixar making quality films, it had to be the 3D. That was transparent, that was something they could point to and understand and replicate.

Now not only did 2D animation for television cost more, but investors just weren?t willing to invest in what they saw as a part of the past. While 3D animation still proved too expensive for TV, they opted to not invest in nearly anything animated for television instead of attempting small and calculated risk. As investors continued to invest in poor Pixar knock offs that saw minimal returns, the animated film scene became just as grim as the television.

As if the situation wasn?t bad enough, the responses by the major animation companies didn?t help the situation either.

Disney: Disney?s response was akin to the general response overall. They had no special plan. In fact in house productions came to a hault all together, instead opting to serve as a publish of animation rather than a producer. Disney also invested heavily in 3D animation with mix success but poor financial success.

Nickelodeon: In a recent interview with Hey Arnold! creator Craig Bartlett, (link at the bottom) Craig revealed Nick?s plan to turn their already successful Nicktoons into an institution compared to what Disney had once had. Their charecters would become the new Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse, staring in feature length films and crossovers and spin offs. They would make up for the increased cost with increased revenue. Sadly, spin off after spin off, and film after film, the plan flopped except for Spongebob and The Fairly Odd Parents.

However the problem with Nick?s approach wasn?t the concept, but the execution. Did you ever think that the Hey Arnold! movie was a step back from the series? Well that?s because it was just suppose to be a fun little made for TV movie. It was goofy because it was suppose to be just a silly little farce. Nick?s producers, itching to put their plan into action, rushed the movie into theaters with a subpar advertisement push for what was already the most niche show in all of Nick?s lineup. Saddened by the shows 130 million dollars in profits, the Jungle Film was ditched, leaving Arnold off on a giant cliff hanger.

Similar problems exist in all of their attempts, from the Thornberries to the Rugrats All Grown Up. What happened to Nicktoons was caused by poor execution from the business end, all with the best intentions.

Cartoon Network: Cartoon Network was obviously completely unprepared for the change and fumbled around for years until animation picked up these past few years. The closest thing to a plan that I can see from CN came in bringing in the big names of the previous generations. Fosters brought in Craig McCracken of Dexter?s Lab and Powerpuff Girl fame, while Camp Lazloo brought in the creator of Rocko?s Modern Life. They kept what shows they could, most notably Ed Edd n Eddy, but the situation got so dire they started to advertise Courage the Cowardly Dog as new to a new age of children.

Adult Swim however, thrived, with its low production cost, the shows thrived off of good writing and meeting an untapped market exposed by the many adult cartoons of the 90s. However there was even a time when they suffered, all because of Tim and Eric. Tim and Eric demanded that an animation show on CN never have a budget higher than them. Its no wonder that shortly after they left CN for Showtime CN got heavily invested into animation again.

Hey, at least their odd approach landed us Sheep In The Big City, a show that would have otherwise probably never have been made.

Japan: While Japan suffered, they did better than others since they had always been operating under a considerably smaller budget (except the 80s, but the world was crazy then). The biggest way Japan suffered was in the number of titles produced. Even Ghibli felt the pinch. One way to reduce cost and increased revenue was by something westerns call ?Moe,? which translates directly into ?cute.? In attempt to bring in more female watchers, slice of life shows staring girls with fat giant heads came out. This? . wasn?t all that successful, but the industry still did better than what happened in the American market.

So how did we get out of that horrible decade and into the wonderful rebirth of animation we?ve had in the past few years? Well that?s actually quite a few things, but I?ll hit up in response to the problems I brought up thus far.

Notice How I didn?t list Europe?

Well Europe?s animation was always a niche department. American animation consistently outsold homegrown products. Because of this, Europeans had to develop animation techniques that would allow their smaller markets to stayfloat while attempting to produce works of similar production qualities. There?s quite a lot of animation I could pick from, but I?ll chose one film from Europe that exemplifies a lot of production tricks now used in many American films.

Brenden and the Kells proved that not only can 2D animation be made in a cost effective manner, but that it could be made without sacrificing the quality of animation. If you enjoy the animation style of Flapjack, then look here and you?ll find many of the same techniques.

Investors Admitted They Were Wrong

Flop after flop, investors finally admitted it was the films themselves, NOT the 3D that drew the people in. They then turned their attention to producing quality animation titles, leading us into titles like Despicable Me, How to Train Your Dragon, and Disney getting back into the production process. Japan has had s similar realization, though do to their economic condition are still struggling quite heavily.

We aren?t out of the woods yet

This might just be a beautiful mistake. The money could go away again. Industry trends change overnight, you?re current favorite lineups and film makers are just as vulnerable now as they were during the start of the 00s. Yuasa?s works, Adventure Time, Pheonis and Ferb, whatever your favorite modern cartoon is, they are all in danger unless we constantly remind the industry that quality animated titles is what we want.

FOR A LINK TO THEY HEY ARNOLD CREATOR INTERVIEW MENTIONED ABOVE, LOOK BELOW!

http://www.mixcloud.com/ArunMehta/the-arun-mehta-show-craig-bartlett-interview/
 

TorqueConverter

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You may want to stop watching children's cartoons. These cartoon's plot, story and jokes are for children. You are not supposed to connect with the show as you are an adult. Try watching adult cartoons. I recommend The Venture Brothers.
 

Fishyash

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Dec 27, 2010
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TU4AR said:
I reckon Adventure Time and Regular Show kick ass.

Strain42 said:
Cow and Chicken - Terrible. Knowing I used to love this makes me sad now.

Rocko's Modern Life - Better than Ever
This times a fucking million.
Double this...

OP: I agree I preferred the spongebob before the movie.

Cartoon wise, the only one I would consider watching atm is adventure time and regular show (pretty hilarious, probably because it's clearly meant to appeal to an older audience than most cartoons on the channel).

Pretty much the only good shows I liked when I was in my preteen years weren't any newer than 2000.
 

chowderface

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StorytellingIsAMust said:
The fact of the matter is that intellectualism is losing value in society and therefore the number of successful cartoons that are well-written, thoughtful, and genuinely funny will dwindle. It's either that, or your preferences as a kid are not the preferences you have now. In fact, that's more likely the case.
False. Writers think kids are dumb. The value society places on intellectualism is a factor completely divorced from this notion. It's just Sturgeon's law at work; most of everything is crap. The fact is that a lot of the shows from our youths were dreck too, but, in the same way that only composers like Bach and Tchaikovsky are remembered in our modern era, we really only remember the ones worth remembering. On that note, I saw a recommendation for Adventure Time which I can thoroughly endorse (just skip the original pilot; it's not anywhere near up to the standard of the actual show), and The Amazing World of Gumball is pretty fun, too. Regular Show's worth a look as well.

As for Spongebob in particular, the show was supposed to end after the movie; Nickelodeon just didn't want to let their cash cow go. Basically anything you see now, be it tripe or something completely off the wall, is the result of the entire production staff glorying in their ultimate job security.
 

DracoSuave

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When I was younger, I used to watch Toxic Crusaders.

When I was older, I watched Toxic Avenger....


...damn how the HELL did that become a kids' cartoon!?! SUCCESSFULLY!?!
 

TheIronRuler

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Flizzick said:
So the other day I was sitting at home, when my seven year old sister asked me if I wanted to watch an episode of Spongebob Squarepants with her. Remembering how much I used to worship the show a decade ago, I willingly agreed.

Unfortunately, I fell out with Spongebob around the time the movie was released, so I had no idea what kind of changes the show had undergone over the years.

As soon as the show started, I was appalled at what I saw:

All the charm that the show possessed when I was a kid was gone. The plot barely made any sense, and didn't actually go anywhere. Spongebob and his friends ran around acting goofy, but there wasn't anything memorable or even entertaining about it. Everything about it was so insulting that any moral message they were trying to get across was lost under the rotten presentation. They actually needed to spell out what they were trying to do so you wouldn't be left scratching your head at the end saying "what the hell did I just watch?"

It seems that this is happening with kids programs everywhere on TV, relying on shiny objects and flimsy gimmicks to entertain the audience, rather than make something worth watching.

Perhaps I'm getting mad over nothing, but it irked me enough to write about it on the Escapist Forums. Whatever, if anyone needs me I'll be in the angry dome.

PS- no MLP recommendations please, tried it, liked it.
Well, if you want to, you can go back and look at the old Disney cartoons for some comparison.
Maybe the Hunchback of Notre-Dam? Which was loosely based on a rather child un-friendly novel?
With a deformed individual in the centre, An oppressed populace, A woman that is pursued by a demented priest that lusts for her and will do whatever it takes for him to marry her or she will die...
Maybe you want to look at the values you draw on from The Little Mermaid? "You won't have your voice, But... Uh... You'll have your MAN!"... Beaty and the Beast where looks are more inportant than what is on the inside...
Then again, this is just disney, right?
No, not really. These are, my friend, nostalgia gogles. I'm sorry to inform you of your mistake.
 

SilentCom

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Spongebob is still on? How long has it been going for? I mean I remember it when I was in elementary school. I just graduated college btw...

Anyways, I stopped watching it a while back because they kept putting stupid stuff in it. I mean just because the characters have become more stupid doesn't mean the show is more entertaining. If I really wanted to be entertained with stupidity, I would watch political debates. ;D
 

Sectan

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Aug 7, 2011
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I loved and still love all of the Chuck Jones cartoons and cartoons from the early '90s and '00s. Angry beavers, Invader Zim, Loony Tunes, Tom and Jerry. I'm sometimes catching Adventure Time, Chowder (When it was on), Flapjack (Before it got cancelled) and I thought they were fine. If a cartoon is good you won't outgrow it, you'll just understand it better.
 

CommanderL

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its more than just nostalgia cartoons kids shows these days are not any good i still watch the cartoons i watched as i kid and i still enjoy them
 

StorytellingIsAMust

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chowderface said:
StorytellingIsAMust said:
The fact of the matter is that intellectualism is losing value in society and therefore the number of successful cartoons that are well-written, thoughtful, and genuinely funny will dwindle. It's either that, or your preferences as a kid are not the preferences you have now. In fact, that's more likely the case.
False. Writers think kids are dumb. The value society places on intellectualism is a factor completely divorced from this notion. It's just Sturgeon's law at work; most of everything is crap. The fact is that a lot of the shows from our youths were dreck too, but, in the same way that only composers like Bach and Tchaikovsky are remembered in our modern era, we really only remember the ones worth remembering. On that note, I saw a recommendation for Adventure Time which I can thoroughly endorse (just skip the original pilot; it's not anywhere near up to the standard of the actual show), and The Amazing World of Gumball is pretty fun, too. Regular Show's worth a look as well.

As for Spongebob in particular, the show was supposed to end after the movie; Nickelodeon just didn't want to let their cash cow go. Basically anything you see now, be it tripe or something completely off the wall, is the result of the entire production staff glorying in their ultimate job security.
You make a good point. I never thought of it that way.

Also, on the subject of decent cartoons today, Phineas and Ferb is downright hilarious with great in jokes for the parents.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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Spongebob went downhill when they shifted there audience from family to kids. I think they finally figures out that parents weren't something worth trying to appeal to and went all out kiddie. As for other shows, keep looking around. There are plenty of good cartoons. Like back int eh day, most are crap but good ones are scattered about.
 

CODE-D

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Kitsuna10060 said:
CODE-D said:
The fact that you hold Mlp in such high regard and dis chowder and flapjack means we have nothing in common. I pity you.
the fact your 'pitying' some one for liking something you don't say more about you then it dose me for liking MLP.
this would normally be the part where i'd throw 'i pity you' back at you, but that would make me a lier, and i save that for people that actually deserve it
Mlp has affected your spelling ability.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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CODE-D said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
CODE-D said:
The fact that you hold Mlp in such high regard and dis chowder and flapjack means we have nothing in common. I pity you.
the fact your 'pitying' some one for liking something you don't say more about you then it dose me for liking MLP.
this would normally be the part where i'd throw 'i pity you' back at you, but that would make me a lier, and i save that for people that actually deserve it
Mlp has affected your spelling ability.
no that's actually always sucked, which is my teachers fault :p

and it'd be worse if this site didn't have spell check, and praise Luna for that i say
 

Joel Dawson

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Jun 26, 2011
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Two words...Adventure Time. I've also heard Regular Show I really good but I've yet to watch it.
 

Thaius

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titankore said:
Also if you want a good series Avatar the legend of Korra will be out soon, and the new Thundercats is good.
This, but first watch Avatar: The Last Airbender. Seeing as it comes first chronologically, and also because it's the greatest show ever made my human minds. Seriously, it's a really funny, heart-poundingly epic fantasy story with complex characters, an interesting and highly-developed world and mythology, and some of the greatest animated fight scenes you'll ever see. Watch it.

But generally, yeah, I agree. Kids shows generally aren't good. We occasionally have some good ones (Invader Zim, Avatar: The Last Airbender, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, etc.), but not nearly as many as back in the day.

Also check out Fillmore! It's an awesome cartoon from the 90s that basically takes the typical "buddy cop" formula and puts it in the context of middle school. So the episode about counterfeit money is actually about counterfeit baseball cards, for instance. It takes all the typical crimes one would expect in a cop show, but adapts them to middle school stuff, and the result is absolutely brilliant. Also, Tara Strong (Twilight Sparkle in MLP, Seth Balmore in Lost Odyssey, Harley Quinn in Arkham City) is one of the main characters, so there's another thing. It may take some internet searching to find, but it's very much worth it.
 

Tonz of Fun

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I'm gonna say.....the internet and television and I have an explanation for this. With the express result of the internet, children are exposed to more then what they would normally like graphic materials and unrestrained information so it is more difficult to come up with things to entertain kid unlike mine and the previous generation where a moral was trying to be presented. Now all child would rather have a quick laugh then actually get something out of cartoons.
 

Pegghead

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Aug 4, 2009
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I feel your pain bro.

In all seriousness, not all of the shows aimed at children nowadays are that bad. I've heard good things about that one called "Adventure Time", and in all fairness it's difficult to judge the quality of the shows we watched when we were younger because of the factor of nostalgia. Who knows, maybe kids shows are miles ahead ofanything we were raised on.
 

theheroofaction

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Jan 20, 2011
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Two things,
1) It never really was much good in the first place
2) That show has been running two shorts a week, 52 weeks a year for 11 years now, I wouldn't be able to stay original in one setting for that long, and neither would you.