What have gamers got against regenerating health?

[Unsilenced]

I don't have a problem with regenerating health when it's used in the type of game where regenerating health makes sense. Worked great in Halo and makes sense in CoD.


What I don't like is it getting sprinkled over every game and its mother like it's the salt of the gaming world and everything tastes better with it. They made a god damned FEAR game with regenerating health. It's like power armor in a Silent Hill game, or having that old guy say, "It's dangerous to go alone, take this tactical shotgun with a laser sight and heartbeat sensor."

Yeah power armor is fun in Fallout and I do love my shotguns, but holy fuck they need to stay in the games they were god damn designed for.

 

[snekadid]

storywise: I don't mind regenerating health as long as theres some sort of reason for it. Example: the darkness series, stuff wont let jackie die or stay dead so it makes sense that it would heal him.

Gameplay: You can have regenerating health or chest high walls and cover system in a game, you can't have both. Honestly, it just gets boring hiding behind a wall waiting for health to come back so you can pop out, kill 3 guys and duck back in. I honestly have stopped mid game on several titles because the combination just leads me to hate the genre. Regenerating health has a place in gaming, but i think it could do better in games like devil may cry, where you trash a room and then heal while you look for goodies, and if you need to heal in battle your gonna have to get lucky with dodging once you pass the first few stages.

Of course, im old and my first FPS was DOOM so i may be bias.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Regen health can make things too easy.
And forces players to spend most of their time staring at walls.

And with the Halo regen problem, as you called it, it adds challenge to the games. You're forced to ration health and try different tactics to either defeat or get around enemies.

 

[Johann610]

It has to do with exploration. The ultimate reward for sneaking deep underground in Doom is a big fat MegaSphere...a full reload and 100% more of everything on top of that. The ultimate punishment for doing poorly against the baddies is having to dash backwards, scrambling for a medpack to get back to full power before you can fight again. And the then having to sneak deep underground because you used the obvious health already.
Regen health makes health hunts unnecessary, and the hunt is now for "secrets" or "stars" or "McGuffins". All while some chick and / or nerd bleats in your ear about them. Doom got it right--I see that I NEED health. I don't have to be TOLD to look for it.

 

[Anthony Wells]

It's a lazy health system.

That is all.

Just so I avoid a low-content post, here is a picture of a cloud:

Spoiler

God doesn't seem to like me.

A picture is worth a thousand words, so meh.

But Shadow of the colossus had a Regen health system. would you say that game would have been improved with healthpacks?

 

[Davey Woo]

I liked the way health worked in AVP, you had 3 segments of health, and health would only regenerate to the top of one segment. To fully restock your health you had to find a medkit thing.

In general i prefer regenerating health, because it's annoying in a game if it checkpoints you at something stupid like 6 health, and then you have to spend the next segment of the game basically doing trial and error until you get far enough to find health again. (Looking at you, Half Life 2, I hate you...)

 

[Scow2]

It kills any such scary of dying.Need health run around a corner and you're all healed up you enemies aren't. So there is very little threat of failure. Though it works in some games like InFamous. I mean in that game when low on health you have to be careful to dodge attacks and get to electricity. It makes a happy medium.

Capthca: level playing field.

Oh you. How clever.

That's brings up something else I think a lot of critics of regenerating health tend to miss: Most FPS games don't have regenerating ammo, so there's still continuity between battles. However, future battles when you're at a disadvantage require you to mix up weapon usage and conserve ammo, instead of frequently becoming a case where the game's situation is far beyond your ability to beat (Being left with 5 health, against enemies that do 6 points per shot, where the encounter's designed that you're guaranteed to take at least one hit)

Disagree. Almost every enemey in an FPS drops ammo and lets you pick it up. Out of ammo for one gun? Here are five guys with a similar weapon who you just killed. There you go. So yeah. Just swap out one weapon for another and you are all set.

Which FPSs are you playing? Certainly not Call of Duty (It's rare to find interchangable ammo, and the weapon attachments you use for your playstyle are a big part of the game, and a major loss) Or...

Let's go back to how Halo handles ammo:
No weapons are redundant with each other.
Human weapons use collectible ammo, but their supplies are very limited, and controlled by the level-designer.

Most Enemy weapons don't have ANY interchangable ammo: Do you swap out your Plasma pistol/rifle at 50% power for the one with 75% power in the middle of the fight so you can outlast it, or do you want to stick with that low-ammo gun so the "Fresh" guns will last longer later?

Enemy weapons with replenishible ammo fall into one of two areas: Either small capacity(Spiker, Carbine, Needler), or rare (Needler, Fuel Rod Cannon, Brute Shot)

Skyrim has slow HP regen, but all games in the series allow you to rest to fully recover health and mana. It simply becomes another tactical/explorational resource? Do you press on when your health is low, letting it recover over time at the cost of losing it all from a miss-step or ambush?

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Depends on how it's done really. I do hate scrounging for health packs, for example, but if I am in a game where there are portable health potions that are practically falling off every shelf into my pack that I don't have to ever use because my health comes back as a game function with no provided context it does break the illusion. If I have kinetic barriers that recharge if they aren't getting knocked down because I took cover, it makes sense.

It's all about how it is framed in terms of the game world for me. Unless it's a simple hack/slash where fighting is a secondary element that just happens to take place a lot (looking at you DA2) - then I just don't notice/care.

 

[CrustyOatmeal]

i think the new movement is the best of both worlds (halo reach and mass effect 3 style) where you have several small health bars where if you loose one then it wont regenerate. it adds intensity and rewards good players while being forgiving to mistakes the player may make

the only other system i think could work is a slow health regeneration system where it takes a good while to regenerate health; like 30-60 seconds for shooters and a few minutes for RPGs. this way the game still holds the risk of a health bar while still catering to the novice gamers

either way, the health system of a game needs to be thought about throughout the entire creation of a game. each health system has its strengths and its weaknesses and to ignore them is short sighted

 

[Scow2]

In fact, the "Mutual Regenerating Health" is a big part of Halo's gameplay: You're often faced with a choice where you can recover health: But that Brute Chieftan also will recover health, and he generally has a larger gun than you, and unlike you, does not have unlimited ammo. So it becomes a choice of "Do I pass on my opportunity to kill this guy so that Grunt won't kill me, or do I heal up, knowing that I'll have a harder time taking down that brute?"

Of course, Halo 3 has the rather weird situation of the brute armour not regenerating at all if you bring their "shields" down completely. This is especially relevant when plasma pistols (and their instant shield dropping) gets involved. Halo's 1 and Reach might be better examples.

The fun thing about Halo (And what makes it such a great game, despite what the hipsters like to say) is that ALL the mechanics work together: It's VERY difficult to completely remove a brute's shields without a Plasma pistol: But if you want a plasma pistol (Which hold very few super-shots, which have a slow projectile and not-inconsiderable charge-up time), you have to sacrifice one of your weapon slots: Normally, one of your weapons is a Medium or Long-range marksman weapon, and the other's a close-quarters or rapid-fire quick-killer. Or you have a "Reliable" gun and Heavy-hitting "Situational" gun, the plasma pistol being neither. Which would you sacrifice for a Plasma Pistol? Or you could dual-wield it, but that has its own list of challenges.

 

[somonels]

Removes all suspense from the game. low on health? squat behind a cardboard box for 10 seconds and you are ready to go.

 

[VoidWanderer]

Regenerating health in FPS remove any form of challenge from the game. When you can hide from the enemy while you're health recovers, it doesn't give you the rush of 'OMG I just killed 20 dudes, without getting hit and found a medpac!'.

I miss picking up healing items and using them, as it adds more tactics to the game other than playing hide-and-seek.

 

[teh_Canape]

I don't think they are against its use, but rather they are against its overuse
that and most of the times it feels like it removes the challenge and thrill of studying and paying attention to the playgrounds to know where everything is

 

[Kahunaburger]

Skyrim has slow HP regen, but all games in the series allow you to rest to fully recover health and mana. It simply becomes another tactical/explorational resource? Do you press on when your health is low, letting it recover over time at the cost of losing it all from a miss-step or ambush?

I'm not sure we can use an Elder Scrolls game to say much about correctly balanced game mechanics. Keep in mind that these are the games where it's pretty trivial to whip up enough health potions (which can be drank instantly at essentially no cost) to never have to worry about damage again.

 

[The Heik]

Maybe it fits in with arcady shooters like COD and the like, but it absolutely has NO PLACE in any type of semi realistic tactical type shooters for obvious reasons.

Realistic? *snicker*

Dude we're talking about games where a lone soldier takes on over 500 to 1 odds and wins, and that's even in the more realistic shooters. I'm sure that a little bit of regenerating health shouldn't detract too much from the game because honestly a simple HUD is already straining the levels of realism.

OT: I'm perfectly fine with regenerating health. Speaking as a future member of the industry, it make designing the challenges of the game far more easier to balance. It's infuriating for the players to continuously lose to couple of grunts because their health is at one percent, when at a full health it's not even a challenge. That breaks the flow, and that's a very bad thing for a game to have.

That being said, it shouldn't be a crutch for the player. There are too many game developers who use regenerating health to cover for bad design or coding. Ideally, it should work more like powering the systems of your ship in Star Trek Online. If you're low on health, you can dedicate more energy to your regen, but at a cost of lessened combat/movement capabilities whilst doing so or by being interrupted if attacked or even by having it on a timer. It ensures that the player doesn't just slip the proverbial IV in and tank the enemy's attacks, but conversely allows them to play the game without having to restart the whole level because they made a mistake right before a checkpoint. It's all about finding the ideal balance between flow and challenge.

 

[Unsilenced]

No one system is just going to work for all games all the time. If it's COD and there's 80 mortars firing at me, I don't want to look for a health kit. Finding a little corner where they can't hit me for a few seconds is about as good as it gets. That alone provides tension.

If, on the other hand, it's a tactical shooter or survival horror game, growing back limbs is pretty much the biggest buzzkill on buzzkill street in the buzzkill district of new buzzkillington. These games are about anticipation and planning. You need to make the best of your resources, and if one of your resources is absolutely unlimited, it kind of dumbs things down.

"OH NOES! I HAVE NO HEALTH AND A MONSTER COULD GET ME RIGHT AROUND THE NEXT CORNER! IF HE EVEN HITS ME ONCE I-oh wait. Nevermind. Lol imma shank his ass."

Think if the Left 4 Dead games had regenerating health. How much of a fuck would the survivors give about anything?

"TANK! I'll just let it beat the shit out of me while you guys take it out."

"WITCH! Imma poke her with a stick."

"HUNTER GOT ME! It's k' tho. Just keep doing whatever. I've got time."

Fucks would be scarcer than grenade launcher ammo, and the game would be terrible.

 

[Scow2]

Removes all suspense from the game. low on health? squat behind a cardboard box for 10 seconds and you are ready to go.

Regenerating health in FPS remove any form of challenge from the game. When you can hide from the enemy while you're health recovers, it doesn't give you the rush of 'OMG I just killed 20 dudes, without getting hit and found a medpac!'.

I miss picking up healing items and using them, as it adds more tactics to the game other than playing hide-and-seek.

Oh really now? What game are you playing where health is the ONLY resource you have to track? Ammo is generally far more rare and valuable. It's not "'OMG I just killed 20 dudes, without getting hit and found a medpac!'" - It's "OMG! I just killed 20 dudes with a clip and a half of ammo left in my SMG and found a refill!" , or even more awesome "Wow that was a hairy fight! I survived, but had to replace my Heavy Grenade Launcher with this Plasma Pistol because I ran out of ammo! And my Assault rifle's down to a single magazine! I better start looking for a better gun!"

No one system is just going to work for all games all the time. If it's COD and there's 80 mortars firing at me, I don't want to look for a health kit. Finding a little corner where they can't hit me for a few seconds is about as good as it gets. That alone provides tension.

If, on the other hand, it's a tactical shooter or survival horror game, growing back limbs is pretty much the biggest buzzkill on buzzkill street in the buzzkill district of new buzzkillington. These games are about anticipation and planning. You need to make the best of your resources, and if one of your resources is absolutely unlimited, it kind of dumbs things down.

"OH NOES! I HAVE NO HEALTH AND A MONSTER COULD GET ME RIGHT AROUND THE NEXT CORNER! IF HE EVEN HITS ME ONCE I-oh wait. Nevermind. Lol imma shank his ass."

Think if the Left 4 Dead games had regenerating health. How much of a fuck would the survivors give about anything?

"TANK! I'll just let it beat the shit out of me while you guys take it out."

"WITCH! Imma poke her with a stick."

While I can almost agree with your point... BAD BAD BAD examples: As Duke Nukem Forever demonstrated, Regenerating Health is usually offset by lower damage taking-abilities of the player (Imagine playing Half-life 2, except with an Armor and Health maximum of 25 that regenerates, instead of non-regenerating Health and armor of 100: 200 damage absorption between medpacks/shields vs. 50 damage absorption per bout of firefighting). Instead of being a jump in party resource attrition, the special enemies in Left4Dead would be Hit-or-miss events: Either you survived at no loss, or your character was pretty much instantly downed.

 

[malestrithe]

I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.

You can't be serious, right ?

Ppl will come up with anything, rather than admit that their 'new shit' games are dumbed down nonsense for toddlers and dumbfucks.

I can be serious because its true. If computers had the power to do this back then, the programmers would do it.

When will people admit that things are not better back in the day simply because they were from back in the day?

 

[Kahunaburger]

OT: I'm perfectly fine with regenerating health. Speaking as a future member of the industry, it make designing the challenges of the game far more easier to balance. It's infuriating for the players to continuously lose to couple of grunts because their health is at one percent, when at a full health it's not even a challenge. That breaks the flow, and that's a very bad thing for a game to have.

I think it would be more accurate to say that it makes balance matter less. If a player can slowly grind through a firefight by popping a squat every few seconds, it matters much less if the firefight is imbalanced, because a sufficiently motivated player can always make it through.