What have gamers got against regenerating health?

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Doom-Slayer

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Jul 18, 2009
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WhyWasThat said:
I personally prefer my health to recover rather than scramble about looking for med-packs. Plus, with non-health regen there's always the Halo nightmare scenario of being stuck at a checkpoint, hordes of nasties bearing down on you, no health packs in sight... and 1% health remaining.
Regen health avoids all of that unpleasantness.
Because it gets incredibly boring and doesn't really suit the sort of shooters its always tied with. It basically segments all of the combat into little battles where you can go totally bananas on a few guys then hide and wait to get it all back, rinse repeat. Of course there are plenty of games where it works, COD for example Id say it does because its working primarily with very quick close quarters combat which suits it, but so many games that use it simply dont.

In comparison using the original Health bar approach, it means when you run into a room you're actually TRYING to avoid taking damage, because for every bit of health you loose now, you will have less in the next room unless you find health or acquire it.

And really..people are sick of it, its so often tied in with the gritty brown shooter of our time that we are just getting bored of it all.
 

Kahunaburger

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malestrithe said:
Anthraxus said:
malestrithe said:
I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.


You can't be serious, right ?

Ppl will come up with anything, rather than admit that their 'new shit' games are dumbed down nonsense for toddlers and dumbfucks.
I can be serious because its true. If computers had the power to do this back then, the programmers would do it.

When will people admit that things are not better back in the day simply because they were from back in the day?
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. On one hand, I don't know if anyone would actually think that making a number go up slowly was out of the capability of early game devs. On the other hand this is what CoD kiddies actually believe [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law].
 

Scow2

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Aug 3, 2009
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malestrithe said:
Anthraxus said:
malestrithe said:
I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.


You can't be serious, right ?

Ppl will come up with anything, rather than admit that their 'new shit' games are dumbed down nonsense for toddlers and dumbfucks.
I can be serious because its true. If computers had the power to do this back then, the programmers would do it.

When will people admit that things are not better back in the day simply because they were from back in the day?
Because regenerating health WAS possible? They just chose not to do it because it didn't play to PC-gaming strengths. It's VERY easy to make a single line of code that grants regenerating health - far easier than creating and placing health-packs.

I think you need to take a course on computer programming before you make stupid "dafuq?" statements like this.

Regenerating health was introduced by Halo to make FPS games more fun and engaging on the X-box, turning that console into the ultimate Party Favor you could bring to any event. And while you can criticize that all you like, all you'll end up doing is looking like a self-absorbed asshole and complete tool.
 

Unsilenced

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Oct 19, 2009
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malestrithe said:
Anthraxus said:
malestrithe said:
I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.


You can't be serious, right ?

Ppl will come up with anything, rather than admit that their 'new shit' games are dumbed down nonsense for toddlers and dumbfucks.
I can be serious because its true. If computers had the power to do this back then, the programmers would do it.

When will people admit that things are not better back in the day simply because they were from back in the day?
...

You do realize that it takes no additional computer power to do regenerating health, right? Like literally, the code for it would be shorter than this comment chain. Plus, there have been a number of non-regenerating health games released after Halo, which was the first really big game to do it. L4D2 much?


You know that Dilbert strip where Dilbert tells his boss to delete files to make his computer lighter? Well you probably don't, but that's what your comment was like.
 

Doom-Slayer

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Jul 18, 2009
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malestrithe said:
I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.
Wut? Why in the world would regenerating health require a significant amount of procesing power. All it would be is a few lines of code

Have like a 5 second timer, if you get shot, set the timer back to 0. If it gets to 5, regenerate your health..hurp?

Im sorry, im copying that quote down for its ridiculousness...
 

ThePS1Fan

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Dec 22, 2011
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Personally I think it works based on the game and how its implemented

Like how the first Resistance game handled the health system. Your health was divided into four quarters and it would regenerate to the nearest quarter. To get more health after that you need to find the health kits.
 

Waaghpowa

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Apr 13, 2010
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Kahunaburger said:
heals by throwing a flaming bird in people's faces.
Isn't that how everyone does it in real life?
..
..
..
Oh wait, I'm Canadian, we have health care!
 

The Heik

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Oct 12, 2008
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Kahunaburger said:
The Heik said:
OT: I'm perfectly fine with regenerating health. Speaking as a future member of the industry, it make designing the challenges of the game far more easier to balance. It's infuriating for the players to continuously lose to couple of grunts because their health is at one percent, when at a full health it's not even a challenge. That breaks the flow, and that's a very bad thing for a game to have.
I think it would be more accurate to say that it makes balance matter less. If a player can slowly grind through a firefight by popping a squat every few seconds, it matters much less if the firefight is imbalanced, because a sufficiently motivated player can always make it through.
But that's the mark of a bad design, so the balance wouldn't matter anyways.

Health-camping can easily be dealt with a little bit of forethought. One way is for the AI's behaviour change depending on the player's actions. If the player starts camping about, the AI throws some grenades at them or flanks their position, forcing them to actually fight rather than just pop-and-drop. Another good way to deal with it is to simply make a good mix of enemies. It's easy to camp on your regen if all your enemies are snipers who don't move, but if a couple of melee dudes and and some faster flanking units are added in, you suddenly have to prioritize who to destroy in order to ensure you don't get killed. Bam, the fight is suddenly strategic, all without needing to handicap the player in any arbitrary fashion.
 

Elamdri

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RJ 17 said:
Pretty much a combination of the first two responses: it detracts from the realism when your character can just say "Hold up guys, let me duck down here and magically get rid of these bullet holes scatter across my chest........alright, I'm good, let's fight!" This same scenario also utterly derails the action of the game for the same nonsense. You're in the middle of a fight for your life...that "fight for your life" turns out to be more like "A fight for....some chest-high walls." as that's all you need to win thanks to every modern day FPS character being Wolverine without the adamantium.
Well the whole point of regenerating health is that Developers can design each encounter under the assumption that the player is going to have maximum health. It greatly simplifies encounter design because of it.

Likewise, players get the benefit of knowing exactly how much health they will have going into each encounter, which helps them prepare for whatever strategy they are going to utilize.

The problem with most shooters is that they don't force the player to move enough. Most the comments are about people bitching and moaning about how all they have to do is hide behind some cover. Well that wouldn't be so easy if developers made the enemies utilize strategies like cover busting enemies, grenades, artillery, ect.
 

somonels

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Scow2 said:
somonels said:
Removes all suspense from the game. low on health? squat behind a cardboard box for 10 seconds and you are ready to go.
VoidWanderer said:
Regenerating health in FPS remove any form of challenge from the game. When you can hide from the enemy while you're health recovers, it doesn't give you the rush of 'OMG I just killed 20 dudes, without getting hit and found a medpac!'.

I miss picking up healing items and using them, as it adds more tactics to the game other than playing hide-and-seek.
Oh really now? What game are you playing where health is the ONLY resource you have to track? Ammo is generally far more rare and valuable. It's not "'OMG I just killed 20 dudes, without getting hit and found a medpac!'" - It's "OMG! I just killed 20 dudes with a clip and a half of ammo left in my SMG and found a refill!" , or even more awesome "Wow that was a hairy fight! I survived, but had to replace my Heavy Grenade Launcher with this Plasma Pistol because I ran out of ammo! And my Assault rifle's down to a single magazine! I better start looking for a better gun!"
F.E.A.R. 2. If I want to play the first half of the game with a pistol and a melee attack, I will, but I must be playing the game wrong.
But in a way you are right, ammo was the only resource I had to keep track of in F.E.A.R. 3.
 

CarlsonAndPeeters

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Mar 18, 2009
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WhyWasThat said:
Plus, with non-health regen there's always the Halo nightmare scenario of being stuck at a checkpoint, hordes of nasties bearing down on you, no health packs in sight... and 1% health remaining.
Regen health avoids all of that unpleasantness.
Interesting, you just summarized what makes a game like Half-Life so intense and challenging and exciting to me and said its a bad thing. I guess we look at games differently then.

I think regenerating health is a cop-out for a lot of developers. Its not always bad; some games pull it off well. But for the most part, its become the go-to, safe health mechanic. It means developers don't need to bother to balance the number of health items in the world and that sequences can be disconnected since they know you'll have full health anyways.
 

BodomBeachChild

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Having nonregenerating health adds so much to the tension. If you screw a fire fight up and you don't have health packs that changes the way you play. You can't sit there and wait and everything is OK. You had to truck on playing more careful. Taking better shots, using cover more, move on slower... whatever. That doesn't take away from a game it adds to it.
 

Gottesstrafe

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Oct 23, 2010
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I'm not against regenerating health per se. For genres like platformers and puzzle games, combat isn't in itself the focus of the game. For games like Portal and Mirror's Edge, management resources is not part of the game. They are both inherently obstacle courses that you try to progress through as fast and efficient as possible. A static health system doesn't benefit this in the slightest, it would make gameplay slow and punish the player for experimenting in different ways to navigate the stage. For the former, health is merely a way to make turrets not a one hit kill. For the later, it's a viable punishment for brute forcing your way through the stage in the most linear way possible (i.e. walking through the armed police detachment or simply jumping down that large fall as opposed to finding an easier route down).

For combat oriented game, however, I find that regenerating health is somewhat detrimental to game play. Eschewing the whole "It makes the game way to easy" argument, regenerating health turns every combat section in the game into a series of isolated skirmishes in no way related to each other. Besides a dwindling ammo counter, there is no carry over from the last fight, no real consequences for the choices that you made. This may just be my own tastes speaking for itself, but I like to feel that my choices throughout a game are cumulative. I like the resource management of combat oriented games, I like the notion of a risk/reward system that rewards my for being proactive in a game and not merely kicking down the big bad's door and spraying every inch of his house in lead until I am either out of ammo or dead. For every argument I hear that the speaker is tired of saving at a checkpoint with 1% health and no health packs in sight, I always have to ask "Do you think that has anything to do with what you did before that checkpoint?" I'll admit, there are situations beyond your control that inevitably screws over your survival prospects through no fault of your own, but in most cases I see it's usually because either the player shot themselves in the foot or let the enemy do it for them. For every player I've seen that get caught in the path of a random missile or explosion, I've seen numerous more fire rockets at near point blank range at canon fodder enemies or try to find out whether or not they could kill every enemy in the area with melee only attacks. If you succeed then more power to you, but whatever damage you take through that is just a consequence of the path you chose to take.

In games like the single player campaign of CoD and Battlefield, all regenerating health amounts to is me proning behind cover as I peek up every now and then to shoot a baddie or two before traipsing back into safety until I wipe the raspberry jam off my face. It's no better than dodging bullets while scavenging for med packs around the battlefield during the firefight. It's worse in fact, because while the later rewards my exploration of the map and careful maneuvering, the former merely amounts to you staying in place while the enemy stays in place, waiting for the inevitable moment where one of you gets tired of all the waiting and jumps out of cover to die in a blaze of glory. You're not rewarded for your progress or proactivity, you're rewarded for being stagnant and staying put.

Now, that's not to say that I'm totally against regenerating health. When the concept is well implemented in the game, I actually applaud it. In the Saints Row games, for example, the focus of the game is a cathartic power fantasy trip where violence for violence's own sake is the underlying rule. Regenerating health works well in this, as it reinforces that. In the early Mass Effect games, regenerating health was a skill you could improve on or equipment you could select. That's fine too. I'm actually quite fond of the concept of "partial health regeneration" implemented in games like Resistance, Medal of Honor: Airborne, and some Halo games, where you can regenerate health up to a certain point depending on how much damage you've taken previously. It combines the resource/risk management game play I like, but doesn't overly punish the player for experimenting with combat and always leaves enough room for them to have a chance in the next fight. This is a concept I felt that Halo: CE nailed perfectly with it's implementation of the regenerating over shield, because while there were tangible risks associated with taking too much damage (health loss), the game gave you leeway to dart from cover to cover without the threat of overpoweringly permanent damage (within reason of course) to keep you rooted in place and unwilling to move.

Edit: Going back to the second to the last paragraph about combat in regenerating health games, another aspect I've grown to dislike is the effect it's had on level design. Whereas resource managing games tend to have appropriately large maps to reward progression around the battlefield and exploration, I find that maps of many regenerating health games tend to be very linear and corridor like in design. While some might call this "streamlining", I prefer to call a spade a spade when I see one. More often than not this is probably implemented with the stay prone-behind-a-wall game play in mind, purposefully linearizing the level so that the enemy AI has a hard time flanking the player and flushing them out of cover while they're regenerating health. Whether or not this was implemented to accommodate the player or because programming complex AIs that do more than sit behind cover and occasionally peek out is expensive remains to be seen.
 

The Heik

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Anthraxus said:
The Heik said:
Anthraxus said:
Maybe it fits in with arcady shooters like COD and the like, but it absolutely has NO PLACE in any type of semi realistic tactical type shooters for obvious reasons.
Realistic? *snicker*

Dude we're talking about games where a lone soldier takes on over 500 to 1 odds and wins, and that's even in the more realistic shooters. I'm sure that a little bit of regenerating health shouldn't detract too much from the game because honestly a simple HUD is already straining the levels of realism.
Sounds like someone's been playing too much mainstream bs. OFP:CWC/Arma removes the hud/on screen helpers on the hardest difficulty setting. Even when you bring up the map it doesn't show your position. It's just as if you were pulling out a map in real life. So you actually have to use some navigational skills. (compass & landmark recognition)

The increased bullet damage combined with no direction of fire indicator ALONE makes these games a WHOLE different world when your talking about military shooters.
Well that's all well in good, but what you're describing are combat simulators, not video games. Things ARMA, America's Army, and Operation Flashpoint were designed teach you tactical skills and nudge you towards enlisting in the military. They are the farthest thing from standard games as they get, and most people avoid them because they can get very long and boring without much measurable enjoyment. They do not define the shooter genre.

Now if that's your style of shooter, then more power to you, but the majority people play games for enjoyment of the narrative (aka the interaction of story and gameplay), not the challenge, hence flow is a far more important part of the gaming experience. Regenerating health ensures that flow is maintained, rather than making the player come to a full stop because of one particularly obnoxious fight. Challenge is still a good thing, but it exists more in the complexity of the problem and the ingenuity of the solution than the simple act of making it as realistic as possible.

Remember, games are about enjoying a fantasy, not a reality. If I could do things in a game that I could just as easily do in real life, then whats the point of playing the game?
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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malestrithe said:
Anthraxus said:
malestrithe said:
I'm pretty sure that if computers had enough processing power to do regenerating health back in the Doom/Quake/Unreal Days, it would have been a standard feature back then.


You can't be serious, right ?

Ppl will come up with anything, rather than admit that their 'new shit' games are dumbed down nonsense for toddlers and dumbfucks.
I can be serious because its true. If computers had the power to do this back then, the programmers would do it.

When will people admit that things are not better back in the day simply because they were from back in the day?

You sir are a complete riot!
When are you going on tour?

In all seriousness regenerating health has been around in RPG's since the 80s and FPS before Doom http://www.giantbomb.com/regenerating-health/92-83/
Halo only popularised it.

The concept itself is sound, but too many developers use it as a crutch to make a simpler game design wise or they are playing "follow the CoD money train."