What Indie Games Can Teach the Big Leagues

[Voulan]

Lately, it seems that Indie games are the only real hope we have for "intelligent" and "unique" games and gameplay. Meanwhile, mainstream series are launching sequels and three-quels and even prequels that are becoming tedious and are gaining a lot of hostility from reviewers and players alike, despite the money invested and even the money gained.

So, what exactly is this magic x-factor that Indie games does so well? Is it simply creativity? What do you think needs to be incorporated into mainstream games?

Feel free to talk about your favourite indie titles, and why you'll probably play them more than the inevitable Halo 5.

 

[Aeshi]

Some indie titles I've enjoyed are:

Spiral Knights (for the first 10 or so hours, it gets a bit grindy/tedious after that, but it is still worth getting, being free and all)

Anything by Tripwire (I have 155 hours on Killing Floor, which I think may be the most of any game I've played)

Star Ruler (For those of us who like more complex games/building ships)

Minecraft (Though that's not really indie any more)

Global Agenda (See what I said about Spiral Knights, minus a bit of the "free" part)

Zombie Driver (Short but fun)

Anything by Introversion (Dar/Multiwinia in particular)


I would disagree with your comment about indie being inherently "better", indie developers are capable of being every bit as unoriginal and repetitive as the "mainstream" developers, they just tend to be better at hiding it due to said games usually being ripoffs of old/flash games nobody is likely to remember.

 

[Zantos]

Breath of Death and Cthulhu Saves the World have a nifty solution to the whole random encounter problem. I disagree on the whole hostility thing though, intelligent and unique doesn't make something good, and despite the fact that many releases this year are hardly pushing the boat out into unknown territory, a lot of people have enjoyed them and are looking forward to things still to come.

 

[Voulan]

I would disagree with your comment about indie being inherently "better", indie developers are capable of being every bit as unoriginal and repetitive as the "mainstream" developers, they just tend to be better at hiding it due to said games usually being ripoffs of old/flash games nobody is likely to remember.

That's a fairly good point. So how exactly do they hide this then, and how can they be unoriginal? All the indie titles I've seen are pretty out there in terms of uniqueness.

 

[krection]

I think Amnesia can teach all the horror developers how real horror is done. Amnesia is the scariest game I have ever played. Which is astounding considering Frictional games consists of 5 guys!

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

I think a huge lesson they can learn is to not use target demographics in, well, ANY stage of development. Indie games are made from the desires of the creators. They don't think about a target audience, or how to appeal to this group or that. They just make a game they would want to play.

As for proof that this actually works, look no further than Pixar. They don't sit and have focus groups on what kids or adults like, and then decide from there what sort of movie they can build around their conclusions. They start with an idea and cultivate it from there. What if our toys could come alive when we're not looking? What if a rat wanted to be a chef? What if an old man turned his house into an airship with a bunch of balloons and just flew away from everything?

Too many games these days just reek of this "target demographic" nonsense. ESPECIALLY in the advertising. Games are outlets for creative expression. Not scientific endeavors to be studied, numbered, and measured until they come up with the ultimate template for the ideal game for x demographic.

 

[Stealthygamer]

VVVVVV

Interesting Gameplay and Level Design make a game, not Graphics

 

[Stall]

I'm not sure how much indie games can teach AAA games. They're very different. Indie games have the advantage of not having to be an 8+ hour long epic: they are able to create a game out of a concept that might not be substantial enough for a AAA game, or it could have just become too pretentious and drawn-out for a format demanding such length. Even further, indie games are MUCH cheaper, meaning that the developer can experiment to much further degrees without incurring such tremendous risk, as AAA games are often confined by the simple fact that they must earn back the money spent to create them, plus some.

Indie games aren't really better, but they are different, and this difference comes with its own pros and cons... most of which do not really transfer over to their bigger budgeted cousins.

 

[Voulan]

Too many games these days just reek of this "target demographic" nonsense. ESPECIALLY in the advertising. Games are outlets for creative expression. Not scientific endeavors to be studied, numbered, and measured until they come up with the ultimate template for the ideal game for x demographic.

I agree. It seems that one of the bigger issues of mainstream games is attempting to sell big, and so they try to appeal to any and everyone so they make a giant profit.

In a way, this could be considered pseudo-individualization - games appearing to be giving gamers a choice, but are really controlling tastes through mass-production of their product, so that therefore the product is everywhere and gamers do not get to see anything that deviates from the formula.

 

[C117]

I think the big advantage indie games have over AAA-titles, is the fact that they generaly cost very little to make. Thus the indie developers have the opportunity to try their boundaries a bit, since it's a lot easier to earn back the money they spent making the game. Meanwhile, AAA-developers are spending a few million bucks to make a new game, and thus have to find a surefireproof way to get the budget back. And so they make games that everyone seems to buy, "realistic" shooters.

 

[Voulan]

Do you all think, then, that a bigger budget usually means that the game has a higher chance of being less well received? Or that Indie Developers have more of a chance to be creative, since they aren't as concerned for profit?

 

[Arafiro]

Spiral Knights (for the first 10 or so hours, it gets a bit grindy/tedious after that, but it is still worth getting, being free and all)

Is Spiral Knights indie..?
Three Rings developed it if I remember correctly and they've had, for one, Puzzle Pirates going for years. Also, Spiral Knights is published by Sega, which is decidedly not indie.

To be perfectly honest, I can't think of anything that indie games can teach AAA developers. Minecraft is the only game that I feel comes close to being better than AAA titles and that's more about a great and simple idea done well than being an indie title.
With that said, I'm not trying to imply that indie games can't be good, I mean just look at Braid.

Edit: Actually, I did see one thing in this thread that I greatly agree with:

That DRM only hurts sales, and it's best to interact with your audience. If the developer seems likeable, then people will put that ahead of everything else.

For example, Notch interacts quite clearly through his blog, and generally seems likeable.
Also, his view on piracy is rather good. People may pirate Minecraft, but to get the full product and the ability to access proper servers, they must buy the game. I remember one time reading about a case where a guy pirated minecraft, and then him and a few friends decided to buy it. That's quite a few sales that would have been lost otherwise.

Key to preventing piracy: Making the purchased product notably superior to the pirated version. DRM does the exact opposite of that, as pirated versions do not have it (and thus are the superior product, even ignoring the cost).

 

[Giest4life]

Nightmare House 2, which is a mod for Half-Life 2 can really teach some AAA developers how to create a game that is full of dread and simultaneously a fun FPS.

 

[Voulan]

I honestly think that the Penumbra series and Amnesia (done by the same developers) have a fantastic way of dealing with fear, loneliness and a real urge to survive. Amnesia did this especially well with having no ability to defend yourself other than to run in blind panic in an attempt to hide.

Dead Space, on the other hand, relies more on jump-scares, and I never really felt genuine fear when I had effective means of eliminating it. Especially when I died, and the same scares happen again.

Amnesia and the Penumbra games may need to have worked on this too, since they apparently claimed that the enemies were randomized when they actually patrol large areas.

 

[Tallim]

Do you all think, then, that a bigger budget usually means that the game has a higher chance of being less well received? Or that Indie Developers have more of a chance to be creative, since they aren't as concerned for profit?

I think the difference is that Indie games have a much smaller group of people working towards a goal, less conflict on how things should be done/look and more focus on the vision of the game. Plus much less financial risk. (Although that's relative to how much they have to invest in the project in the first place)

Indie games sort of have to be more creative and fresh than the AAA titles because they cannot compete with the powerhouse studios. No point just make a similar but all round worse version of something already out there.

 

[Ben Jackson]

Terraria and minecraft automatically come to mind here. I mean, cheap prices for lots of gameplay=profit
Giving more freedom to do what you want.
Mods on minecraft.
Big worlds (some randomly generated)
basically, freedom, cheap prices,lot of gameplay.
Oh and don't focus on getting amazing graphics, no one gives a shit about them since minecraft

 

[Alcookie]

I think Amnesia can teach all the horror developers how real horror is done. Amnesia is the scariest game I have ever played. Which is astounding considering Frictional games consists of 5 guys!

As soon as I saw the title of this topic, you're exact words came to mind.

The problem with mainstream 'horror' games is that they only START scary. Silent Hill 2 is chilling at first but after you play for a few hours and find a ton of weapons it becomes no challenge.

I didn't find games like Dead Space scary in the slightest, for the same reason that you're armed to the teeth.

 

[WarCorrespondent]

Braid- That very last level(no, not the text snippets): HOW TO SAY EVERYTHING WITHOUT SAYING A WORD

VVVVVV- The Elephant Room: HOW TO SAY NOTHING WITH SOMETHING

2 very interesting lessons.