what is it with people and sequels?

[Vault101]

I feel like we are getting conflicting veiws here

on one hand, any gaming "hipster" seems to think seaquels are bad because they are seaquels, hell even if the seaquel is amazing and surpasses the original....its still a seaquel and therefore bad...OR its simply not as good as the original game because its not the original game...and everyone KNOWS its a cheap cash in

or....its a seaquel to an awsome game so its going to be awsome!! and heres another thing, when people usually talk about "best games ever" alot of the time its a seaquel...why?

1. there are alot of seaquels
2. a good seaquel builds upon and imprioves what was good about the original ot trys somthing new

I mean hell even yahtzee's favorite game is a seaquel even though he suggested a world where seaquels are banned, I mean yes I totally get the point of what he is saying

because perhaps seaquels and "playing it safe" seem to be one of the big "problems' of the industry ATM

but still its just seems weird that on one hand you get people complaing about seaquels..on the other you get people pumped up for the next installment of their favorite franchise

 

[artanis_neravar]

It's "sequel" (Sorry I have a thing against poor speeling)

OT: I personally enjoy sequels and I feel that the reason a lot of people on here don't like sequels is because Yahtzee doesn't

 

[Julianking93]

Hm. Never heard of this complaint before actually.
Unless you're referring to the purist types who think that anything that comes after, remakes or improves upon the original material is bad simply because it came after, but never outright hatred for a sequel.

This is a contradiction though seeing as most people tend to think the best games of all time are indeed either spin offs, expansions or sequels.
I think though the type of person you're referring to who thinks in this way is the just the hipster type, and thankfully not the majority opinion >.>

If anything though, I'm the type who has a rather unpopular opinion of games. I tend to like sequels better that most people accuse of "streamlining" like Dragon Age 2.
I hated the first one, loved the second.
Same with Bioshock 2. Found the first one to be pretentious and annoying with horrid gameplay whereas the second had a better focus on making the game actually, you know... fun.

Often times, sequels can go either way. I won't judge it simply based on if I think the first or original was the best or if I thought it was shit.
I'll judge a game on its own merits. For instance, I'll often times play a game in a series which I know nothing about, forming either a positive or negative opinion on what I played and sometimes finding out that I have a differing opinion than most. All in all though, I don't care what people say about games in general. If I like something or not, it's my feelings towards the game. You can argue all you want but it's still just an opinion.

 

[Saelune]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

 

[Seieko Pherdo]

It's "sequel" (Sorry I have a thing against poor speeling)

OT: I personally enjoy sequels and I feel that the reason a lot of people on here don't like sequels is because Yahtzee doesn't

Hating something just because Yathzee hates it is highly illogical. Anyway back on the real topic sequels are a double edge sword. While some sequels are amazing (Persona 4, Silent Hill 2, etc) there's also a lot of badly made sequels. At the same time if you really enjoyed something you'll want more of it, hence the sequel. It also depends on what you want from a game. I'm more of a story person so I'm willing to overlook a few things if the story's good, but I don't like it when the make a sequel just to drag on the saga and continue it with a badly made plot twist (Kind of what happen in God of War 2/3)

 

[artanis_neravar]

snip

A little more on topic this time
People love to hate, if it's popular and they didn't like it for some reason, it some how makes them "cool" to completely bash on it. I brought up in another thread that the people who hate a game are always more vocal, and shove your opinion in your face than the actual fans that they love to despise, like COD, most people I see who like it say something along the lines of "I like CoD it's fun and entertaining" the people who don't like it say something along the lines of "Fucking CoD is complete shit, it's the worst game ever, it's completely worthless and those who like it are total idiotic douches".

So to sum it up, people want to hate something and the more popular it is the more of a reaction they will get and that is what they thrive on.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

And you are doing what now?

It's "sequel" (Sorry I have a thing against poor speeling)

OT: I personally enjoy sequels and I feel that the reason a lot of people on here don't like sequels is because Yahtzee doesn't

Hating something just because Yathzee hates it is highly illogical. Anyway back on the real topic sequels are a double edge sword. While some sequels are amazing (Persona 4, Silent Hill 2, etc) there's also a lot of badly made sequels. At the same time if you really enjoyed something you'll want more of it, hence the sequel. It also depends on what you want from a game. I'm more of a story person so I'm willing to overlook a few things if the story's good, but I don't like it when the make a sequel just to drag on the saga and continue it with a badly made plot twist (Kind of what happen in God of War 2/3)

I never said it was logical, I just meant that's the impression I get

 

[Vault101]

Hm. Never heard of this complaint before actually.
Unless you're referring to the purist types who think that anything that comes after, remakes or improves upon the original material is bad simply because it came after, but never outright hatred for a sequel.

This is a contradiction though seeing as most people tend to think the best games of all time are indeed either spin offs, expansions or sequels.
I think though the type of person you're referring to who thinks in this way is the just the hipster type, and thankfully not the majority opinion >.>

If anything though, I'm the type who has a rather unpopular opinion of games. I tend to like sequels better that most people accuse of "streamlining" like Dragon Age 2.
I hated the first one, loved the second.
Same with Bioshock 2. Found the first one to be pretentious and annoying with horrid gameplay whereas the second had a better focus on making the game actually, you know... fun.

Often times, sequels can go either way. I won't judge it simply based on if I think the first or original was the best or if I thought it was shit.
I'll judge a game on its own merits. For instance, I'll often times play a game in a series which I know nothing about, forming either a positive or negative opinion on what I played and sometimes finding out that I have a differing opinion than most. All in all though, I don't care what people say about games in general. If I like something or not, it's my feelings towards the game. You can argue all you want but it's still just an opinion.

could I go out on a limb here and say the DA2 hate ...while yeah is a big thing is a little more popular on this site? than say IGN or what ever

infact latley Bioware hate is around alot mor eon here for obvous reasons

 

[Radeonx]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

And you are doing what now?

Listing "good" sequels and acting as if there isn't an equal amount of terrible sequels to match the good ones.

 

[Radeonx]

infact latley Bioware hate is around alot mor eon here for obvous reasons

The only reason there has been any Bioware hate here is because of Dragon Age II...and considering that its average score was never more than a 6 from most sites, that isn't surprising.

 

[Vault101]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

And you are doing what now?

It's "sequel" (Sorry I have a thing against poor speeling)

OT: I personally enjoy sequels and I feel that the reason a lot of people on here don't like sequels is because Yahtzee doesn't

Hating something just because Yathzee hates it is highly illogical. Anyway back on the real topic sequels are a double edge sword. While some sequels are amazing (Persona 4, Silent Hill 2, etc) there's also a lot of badly made sequels. At the same time if you really enjoyed something you'll want more of it, hence the sequel. It also depends on what you want from a game. I'm more of a story person so I'm willing to overlook a few things if the story's good, but I don't like it when the make a sequel just to drag on the saga and continue it with a badly made plot twist (Kind of what happen in God of War 2/3)

I never said it was logical, I just meant that's the impression I get

Actually yeah I get that impression as well...

 

[artanis_neravar]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

And you are doing what now?

Listing "good" sequels and acting as if there isn't an equal amount of terrible sequels to match the good ones.

Technically only Half Life and maybe Star Fox and the Battlefield games are "sequels" but I see your point, and it is a good point

 

[Saelune]

Call of Duty 2, Final Fantasy 7 (supposedly, never played), Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, multiple Battlefield games, any TES game that isnt Arena based on when you started, Metroid Prime...

And you are doing what now?

Listing "good" sequels and acting as if there isn't an equal amount of terrible sequels to match the good ones.

People are so black and white about sequals. I know there are bad ones, but I know there are good ones. Personally, I prefer a sequal to a new IP, but I want it to be good. (The new IP is usually a copy of something else, cept slightly different)

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I find there is a fine line between good sequeling and bad sequeling. If the story has been forced into a sequel, it is generally not good. If it was planned as a series, your chances of a good game are much higher. Story development is vital in making the continuity plausible. Gameplay is usually inherited and improved. If the developers are different, it throws some monkey wrenches into the process too.

Over all, I think they can be a good thing but they are quite easy to mess up. Oh and I don't base any of my opinions on Yahtzee... Like ever.

 

[Vault101]

snip

A little more on topic this time
People love to hate, if it's popular and they didn't like it for some reason, it some how makes them "cool" to completely bash on it. I brought up in another thread that the people who hate a game are always more vocal, and shove your opinion in your face than the actual fans that they love to despise, like COD, most people I see who like it say something along the lines of "I like CoD it's fun and entertaining" the people who don't like it say something along the lines of "Fucking CoD is complete shit, it's the worst game ever, it's completely worthless and those who like it are total idiotic douches".

So to sum it up, people want to hate something and the more popular it is the more of a reaction they will get and that is what they thrive on.

also you know as much as people ***** and moan about IGN and its reveiws I kind of like it

why?

oh sure they seem to "overate" games giving alot of games highschores...I mean a agme has to be pretty bad for it to get a low score

but screw it, they seem to be more about liking and enjoying agmes than hating and whining about them

now I understand a certain amount of skepticism or elitismm is nessicary, but I DONT liek hating things I DONT get off on being "dissapointed" because seaquel to x game did not live up to my rediculously high expectations

I DONT like moaning about how the inustry and everythign now is crap

I go there, I see a 7 or 8 which tells me that game isnt awful, I then play the game and form my own opnion on it and Im happy, if thats makes me stupid I dont care, at least Im having fun

 

[artanis_neravar]

also you know as much as people ***** and moan about IGN and its reveiws I kind of like it

why?

oh sure they seem to "overate" games giving alot of games highschores...I mean a agme has to be pretty bad for it to get a low score

but screw it, they seem to be more about liking and enjoying agmes than hating and whining about them

now I understand a certain amount of skepticism or elitismm is nessicary, but I DONT liek hating things I DONT get off on being "dissapointed" because seaquel to x game did not live up to my rediculously high expectations

I DONT like moaning about how the inustry and everythign now is crap

I go there, I see a 7 or 8 which tells me that game isnt awful, I then play the game and form my own opnion on it and Im happy, if thats makes me stupid I dont care, at least Im having fun

And that's the way it should be, I usually don't base the games I buy off of reviews at all, unless Tim Buckley said it was horrible (The only online personality that I trust when it comes to reviewing games) you should buy games because you want to, not because some guy online told you too.

 

[kasperbbs]

Sequels aren't always bad, but when theres just too many of them and they don`t really offer anything significant in gameplay/story department the game loses its charm. I would rather see some new IP then a 4th slighty reskinned installment of a game that i already played to death. But i can understand why they do it, better play it safe then risk going bankrupt with a new title that has no fans.

 

[Xanadu84]

I think it is because games get better in 2 ways, Innovation and Iteration. Innovation is new ideas that are untested, Iteration is the polishing of existing ideas to a mirror sheen. The single largest problem with the industry at large is lack of innovation. Innovation today is frequently seen as the addition of different weapons or art styles in a shooter, when innovation SHOULD be exploring huge expanses of completely un-thought of genres. Nothing exemplifies lack of innovation like sequels. Taking a game and adding a 2 to the end is the obvious poster child for lack of innovation, even when the sequel manages to break new ground, or if the original was unique enough that the sense of innovation shouldn't have worn out yet (Criticisms of Portal 2 come to mind). So sequels get hate. However, it is often forgotten that an equally important part of making a good game is iteration, tweaking and repeating a design based on information gathered from play. This is something the industry is good at, and with a frequent lack of particularly outlandish innovation, the way a game gets judged lives or dies on how well it has been iterated. Because of this, sequels actually have a bit of an advantage, and so many of our favorite games end up becoming sequels (And this is to say nothing of the natural selection process of the best games made by the most skilled teams being more likely to get a sequel) And so, the lack of one strength in the industry leads people to attack the OTHER strength that the industry actually has. It is well meaning, but flawed.

 

[thewightknight]

You can't just quote Yahtzee or point to him as an example of a hater without remembering what his point was. He never claimed that all sequels were terrible in any way. He certainly suggested that most were, of course, but his ultimate point seemed to be that a world without sequels would be a world of more creativity and variety. It wasn't that there would be more good games, it was that there would be more to the games, rather than just copying what was done before to cash in or get an easy fanbase.
To some degree, he has a point, and at the same time he's full of crap. It's standard Yahtzee, no?

As to the general opinions about sequels: people are dicks. It's just like the people who dismiss entire genres of games as crap because 1) they don't like them, 2) "they're all the same," or 3) "the people who play them are stupid." Each of these points is a stupid reason to call a genre bad, yet people do it. It's the same way with sequels, if you hate them all because 1) "they're all greedy," 2) "they're all just doing the same thing,", or whatever else, then you're not looking at half the games out there, and just being, oh hey, a dick.

 

[Vault101]

You can't just quote Yahtzee or point to him as an example of a hater without remembering what his point was. He never claimed that all sequels were terrible in any way. He certainly suggested that most were, of course, but his ultimate point seemed to be that a world without sequels would be a world of more creativity and variety. It wasn't that there would be more good games, it was that there would be more to the games, rather than just copying what was done before to cash in or get an easy fanbase.
To some degree, he has a point, and at the same time he's full of crap. It's standard Yahtzee, no?

As to the general opinions about sequels: people are dicks. It's just like the people who dismiss entire genres of games as crap because 1) they don't like them, 2) "they're all the same," or 3) "the people who play them are stupid." Each of these points is a stupid reason to call a genre bad, yet people do it. It's the same way with sequels, if you hate them all because 1) "they're all greedy," 2) "they're all just doing the same thing,", or whatever else, then you're not looking at half the games out there, and just being, oh hey, a dick.

I DID point out that I understand what yahtzee ment

I mean hell even yahtzee's favorite game is a seaquel even though he suggested a world where seaquels are banned, I mean yes I totally get the point of what he is saying[/B]

ok so I didnt explain it, but yeah a ban on seaquels would encourage more inovation and creativity

then again wouldnt we just end up in a world full of copy-cat games? still just a thourght