What is the best morality system in a game

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DementedSheep

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The one that doesn?t exist? (dues ex: hr, the witcher)
Generally I despise morality metres. It?s fine in a game that is not trying to be mature or complex. One where evil is just evil and good is good and you?re not really suppose to put much thought in it but otherwise it sucks. It destroys any attempts to have a complex choice and encourages point grinding. The consequences of your actions should actually be consequences of that action, how it affects the world.
I hate when you are able to make choices for your character throughout most of the game and then when you get to the end it takes control off you for some reason and gives you and ending based on whether you have been naughty or nice. The only game I can think of where this worked was bioshock 2 because it was Eleanor?s actions that changes based on what you had done previously not yours.
If you?re going to have a system DA:O did alright, you didn?t have a good/evil metre but you lose or gain influence with different characters depending on whether they agree with your actions or not.
Mass effect 2s system is my most hated at this point, it?s a role playing game but they don?t actually seem to want you to role play. It?s like they just want to push you into playing one of their versions of shep. It snowballs because instead of being based on how many points you have its the percentage of points you have vs how many you could have by that stage. This means every time you miss a point you get further behind and can't make up ground. They give you points for everything under the sun even when there no reason that dialogue option would have any bearing on anything. It?s not just speech checks and choices, its every conversation you have to watch out for. It?s not even intimidate vs charm anymore, it is what they have decide paragon shep or renegade shep would do in that situation and they just use it lock you out of options. Is there any particular reason someone would be willing to believe that a paragon shep would break their legs but not a renegade? If anything it should be the other way around.
 

Yvl9921

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TheKasp said:
Ultima IV - Quest for the Avatar.

In this game you have to prove that you are the Avatar, a person who lives by the moral virtues. So during the game you can act like the biggest dick but to win it you have to regard all the virtues. Especially the vrtue of Justice would confuse many people: If an enemy flees you have to let them go. Attacking someone who gave up fighting is not honorable.

Overall there are 8 virtues: Valor (you don't flee), Compassion (giving things away to demonstrate compassion), Honesty, Justice, Honor, Sacrifice, Spirituality and Humility.

So, to win this game you actually have to act like the hero you want to be (aka the Avatar).
Sacrifice was the most impressive to me, because you wound up having to stay behind to make sure everyone was out safely in the event you DID need to flee.

And yes, Ultima IV is the correct answer to this question.
 

odalrick

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Nov 13, 2009
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If one has to be stuck with a Good-Evil system, the system in Baldurs Gate is a very good option.

At the start of the game, it asks the player: "Are you good or evil?"; and then believes them. Unlike the later Neverwinter Nights, which says "Yeah, right. Look at these actions you did; when taken out of context they totally prove you're really good." and slaps a "Good" bumper-sticker on your back.

Sure, it's possible to do evil things if you are good in that system, but that's not the systems fault. It's your own for lying in the beginning.
 

Manji187

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At the moment? Prolly The Witcher.

Obviously what is not good is an overly simplistic dichotomy. Sadly, that's the majority.
 

theAlfaBlade

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ElectroJosh said:
theAlfaBlade said:
House = Good (est)

How is killing the whole brotherhood is a good deed.
. Bear in mind that the Fallout3 brotherhood are most "good-guy" version of the brotherhood to appear in any of the Fallout RPG games (F1, 2 ,3 and NV) and this caused their chapter to splinter.
I remember that in fallout 2 that they were pretty nice.
 

ElectroJosh

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theAlfaBlade said:
ElectroJosh said:
theAlfaBlade said:
House = Good (est)

How is killing the whole brotherhood is a good deed.
. Bear in mind that the Fallout3 brotherhood are most "good-guy" version of the brotherhood to appear in any of the Fallout RPG games (F1, 2 ,3 and NV) and this caused their chapter to splinter.
I remember that in fallout 2 that they were pretty nice.
Pretty nice isn't the same as being the supreme white-knights of the waste-lands.

But then again maybe I just had no issue with screwing them over in NV - others might not have been so happy.
 

triggrhappy94

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ElectroJosh said:
I always thought NV's choices were:

House = Good (est)

Yes Man = Good (ish)
NCR = Neutral

Caesar = Evil

whether that was the intention is another question.
I always thought of it as...

NCR = The Motherland

Everyone else = Either the enemy or new citizens

That sounds kind of bad now that I type it, but it's not that bad.
 

Kimarous

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Conceptually, I love the "Open Palm / Closed Fist" system of Jade Empire. Explained from 3:00 to 5:50 of the following video.


Unfortunately, in practical terms, the game treats these philosophies as a straight-up morality meter instead of accounting for these broader implications. For example, there is one instance where you run across a slave driver with a young woman. In the PC version, your resolution of the incident nets you one of two scrolls, each necessary to learn a special fighting style based on your morality. If you free the woman, you get the scroll for Open Palm. If you convince the woman to free herself, however, you also get the Open Palm scroll. You only get the Closed Fist scroll if you sell the woman personally, despite the "have the woman free herself" option being the closest to Closed Fist philosophy.

That said, I really like the concept of these philosophies, even if the mechanics limit their in-game application.
 

Berenzen

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I always put New Vegas' choices as

House= Lawful Evil-Lawful Neutral. He essentially trying to set up a dictatorship.

Yes Man/Anarchy- Chaotic Good-Chaotic Neutral. If you do well in the wasteland and power up the robots, this is more or less the best choice. Otherwise it's not as great.

NCR- Lawful Good-Neutral Good. They have basically good intentions, but they're overstreched.

Legion- Neutral Evil- Chaotic Evil. Really, they're pretty well dicks to everybody. However, the upper ranks of the Legion have some of the best characters in the game IMO.


On Topic, as others have said, Alpha Protocol really has one of the best out there, every action has consquence really- even if you switch tones mid-conversation the NPCs react to it.
 

Hazy

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ElectroJosh said:
I always thought NV's choices were:

House = Good (est)

Yes Man = Good (ish)
NCR = Neutral

Caesar = Evil

whether that was the intention is another question.
None of the choices were "good," just varying degrees of bad. That's what I loved about New Vegas' endings.

To date, Deus Ex and Human Revolution are some of the best displays of morality. There is no good or evil, there are just actions and the consequences that occur as a result.
The same could be said for The Witcher, and to an even greater extent, The Witcher 2.
 

Darren716

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I think Fallout New Vegas did it the best where it wasn't realya moral choice, but more of a reputation with each faction which all had their different good qualities and bad qualities.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together. It legitimately changed how the narrative unfolded as opposed to other games where it gets you a different ending.
 

TD_Knight

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I always thought The Suffering handled the morality system in a nice way.

Your character is a death row inmate who's been accused of killing his wife and two kids, though no one really knows for sure, and the main character himself apparently 'blacked out' the whole thing. How you approach the rest of the game dictates what actually happened in your character's past.

Taking good options, like saving/helping out fellow inmates/guards, will lead to you finding out that your character was innocent of the crimes that he was imprisoned for.

Neutral options, i.e. neither hindering nor helping out others or having your escorts get killed by monsters, would lead to you finding out that your character accidentally killed his wife, which would then cause his eldest son to kill his little brother and then himself.

Evil options, like killing everyone you meet and generally being sadistic (you can gas a helpless guard who's trapped in a gas chamber, for example) would lead to you finding out that your character did indeed kill his own wife and kids.

Moreover, the ghosts of your character's dead family will treat him differently depending on his alignment, generally being more positive and supportive if you're good, and being more vindictive and spiteful if you're evil.

Your character's appearance would also change depending on alignment. Being good would give him a clean, healthy appearance; at neutral, his clothes would look slightly shabby and dirty; at evil, he'd have an unhealthy pallor, skin lesions on most of his body, and his clothes are more heavily stained.

There was never anything really overt in the game when it came to making decisions, which was nice. If you saw someone asking for help, you could acquiesce, you could ignore him, or you could just shoot him.
 

skywolfblue

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kickyourass said:
Dragon Age, probably the main reason I like Dragon Age better then Mass Effect (though I love them both quite alot) is that instead of having a bar that says "This is how nice/mean you are", it has several each saying "This is how much this character approves/dissapproves of you." It would be even better if they did away with the meters all-together so you'd have to moniter how party members feel towards you instead of having a bar do it.
This.

Having your companions react to your decisions is a much more meaningful goal then "100% goody-two-shoes".
 

SL33TBL1ND

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No morality is the best system. Choices should have consequences, but jamming it into some good/evil bullshit does nothing good.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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I think the best morality system is one that is completely behind the scenes. The game shouldn't tell you which options are good, which aren't, and what effects they will have. The idea of having a morality counter is silly.
 

ElectroJosh

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Hazy said:
None of the choices were "good," just varying degrees of bad. That's what I loved about New Vegas' endings.
Thats probably a more apt description. I actually wonder if the fact I classified House and Yes-Man to be "good" options says more about me than the game.
 

Cyrus Hanley

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Cyrus Hanley said:
I love the system in place with Fallout: New Vegas and the varying degrees of "acceptance" (or lack thereof) with factions and towns, ranging from saviour to sinner and all the alternatives in between (baby-eating Mother Theresa).
For the record, my character is a do-gooder Faceman who just also happens to be a kleptomaniac with ridiculously bad karma.

To top it all off, he resembles Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, complete with glasses and fedora hat. :D