What is the best turn-based combat system you have seen in a game?

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Platituder

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Personally, the entire combat system for the first two Final Fantasy XIII games would be my picks, although whether the game is actually completely turn-based or not is up for debate. Although very simplistic on the surface, I found that getting five stars in battles later on is almost impossible without good strategy and an understanding of how the paradigm system works. The leveling system was, for me at least, another cool implementation which added to the experience, although the upgrade system could have been a little better developed.

I'm going to assume that the majority of the answers here will be various RPGs, but I'd really like to know what other genres implemented this style of gameplay well...

Thanks for reading!
 

sanquin

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I'd say I loved the turn-based system in Grandia 2 the most. Each character had their own turn in order, depending on one of their stats. (SPD I think.) You could also position yourself through move actions. And melee attackers would automatically move to the enemy, and then walk away a bit in a random direction. This led to enemies sometimes just missing their attacks because your party member got to attack first and had moved away.

My second pick would be one more for the options you get rather than how fun/interesting I think it is:
Any SRPG basically. Where you can either queue up a bunch of characters, or do each character separately. Plus positioning and what attack/skill to use when, etc. These games can be very time consuming and a bit tedious, but as far as turn-based combat goes, I don't think you can get much better.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Haven't really played FFXIII, but from looking at it I'd consider it closer to Active Time battle than true turn-based.

Final Fantasy Tactics' approach to turn-based was part of what made it a legend, expanding on its origins in Tactics Ogre in pretty much every way. Nowadays, turn-based battle systems feel like they're missing something unless you can see and alter the turn order like in FFX and Wild Arms 5. I particularly appreciated the ability to change one's equipment at any time in those games to suit the situation, and certain fights expect you to do exactly that.

The Megami Tensei games and its many spinoffs also built their reputation at least in part due to the creation of the Press Turn system, which can really mess you up sometimes but rewards exploiting both elemental and status weaknesses as well as making diverse sets of resistances very important.
 

alphamalet

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I LOVED Final Fantasy VI's battle system.

The ATB system kept the battles exciting and kept players under pressure.
Each character out of the 14 (HOLY SHIT!) playable main party members had either their own unique move set, or an ability unique to them.
Espers let you mix and match spells for each party member.
Using an Esper long enough lets your party member permanently use its spells, leading to interesting and satisfying party building.
Gaining Espers by exploring the world encouraged players to really poke around the world Square created, and players were rewarded for doing so.

<3 Final Fantasy VI <3
 

Platituder

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alphamalet said:
I LOVED Final Fantasy VI's battle system.

The ATB system kept the battles exciting and kept players under pressure.
Each character out of the 14 (HOLY SHIT!) playable main party members had either their own unique move set, or an ability unique to them.
Espers let you mix and match spells for each party member.
Using an Esper long enough lets your party member permanently use its spells, leading to interesting and satisfying party building.
Gaining Espers by exploring the world encouraged players to really poke around the world Square created, and players were rewarded for doing so.

<3 Final Fantasy VI <3
I have to agree that VI's combat was one of the best in the series, but did you like VII's? I thought it was bloody brilliant, personally, and it is my favorite Final Fantasy game overall, but I thought that they could've refined the fighting a bit more.
 

Maxtro

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Chrono Trigger without a doubt.

Yes it is Active Time Battle system, but that can be turned off to be true turn based.

The most amazing thing about Chrono Trigger is that battles happen on the map, there is no screen transition to a battle system. To this day I have not encountered another RPG that does this.

Enemies are always moving around and some techs are dependent on enemy placement if you want to hit more than one enemy at a time. That gives some additional strategy to battles.

Dual and triple techs. Very ground breaking idea of coming two characters attacks into one powerful one.

I would absolutely love to see a modern day RPG that uses the Chrono Trigger battle system.
 

Platituder

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Oh man, Chrono Trigger takes me back... Everyone keeps mentioning all these great games that I haven't heard about in ages... It all just makes me wish that my computer was fast enough to run emulators...
 

alphamalet

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Platituder said:
I have to agree that VI's combat was one of the best in the series, but did you like VII's? I thought it was bloody brilliant, personally, and it is my favorite Final Fantasy game overall, but I thought that they could've refined the fighting a bit more.
Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VII were both amazing games, and have similar combat systems, but I felt like FF6 had the better combat system.

Espers and Materia are similar in theory, but Final Fantasy VI made it feel like you built up a character instead of just swapping Materia in and out. I liked how you could teach your party members the spells attached to the Espers in FF6. You could really build up a party member however you saw fit.

In terms of the fighting in FF7, each party member was essentially the same, and the only thing that truly differentiated them was the Materia they were using, and their limit breaks. As I mentioned, each party member had a unique move set or consequential move in FF6.

TL;DR
I liked both systems, but Final Fantasy VI offered the player a greater variety of moves, characters, and potential builds and that's why I prefer it over VII.
 

Platituder

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Not really all that good of a system, but has anyone played Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes?
 

Platituder

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Jasper van Heycop said:
The Kotor games, because they manage to hide the fact that they're turn-based so well.

And Xcom Enemy Unknown, because it really gave me the feeling of leading a well-organized assault team. They really need to make a Swat game in that style, it'd be glorious
What? The KOTOR games were turn-based? I really don't remember, and those were my childhood...
 

Platituder

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Jasper van Heycop said:
Platituder said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
The Kotor games, because they manage to hide the fact that they're turn-based so well.

And Xcom Enemy Unknown, because it really gave me the feeling of leading a well-organized assault team. They really need to make a Swat game in that style, it'd be glorious
What? The KOTOR games were turn-based? I really don't remember, and those were my childhood...
Though the combat seems real-time the engine is actually built around a turn-based system. A attacks and B defends, then they switch it around (B attacks while A defends). Just try to string together a few attacks, your character will attack and then get forced to defend themselves after the attack is launched.
...
...
... My brain has begun leaking out of my ears.
 

ShinyCharizard

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TizzytheTormentor said:
This guy knows good battle systems.

The Press Turn battle system seen in Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga and SMT IV. Its system of exploiting weaknesses and manipulating stats is incredibly fun and challenging.
 

Liquidprid3

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I love the slot machine health in Earthbound and Mother 3. When you get hit by an attack, instead of immediately going down, your health slowly rolls over, giving you a chance to heal yourself. Even if you're dying, you can heal yourself, or end the battle, if your quick enough. This also adds strategy to enemies that explode when they are killed. You HAVE to kill them last, or else you'll take a lot of damage. People always say that you just mash A in Earthbound, but that's only at the beginning of the game. The combat gets much better after about an hour or two.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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The Press Turn system is my favourite by far. The SMT games are some of the few RPGs I can think of where stat buffs and debuffs can make or break a battle. The way you can gain or lose turns for exploiting weaknesses or hitting resistances (and the way this applies to the enemies as well) adds tons of strategies to each battle. You need to be tagging in demons who resist an enemy's main element, keeping your PC's resistances relevant to the area you're in, casting the right spells at the right time and making sure your party is aligned in optimal order to maintain turn efficiency. The battles are incredibly quick and strategic skill will be the difference between taking out an enemy without taking a scratch and a total party wipe.

The high speed of the animations in the games makes everything feel powerful, too. Annihilating everything on screen with maragidyne feels way meatier than doing the same with firaga in the 3D Final Fantasy games because it just makes everything instantly EXPLODE (imo, at least).

The Grandia system is great as well. Sort of similar to the ATB system in that there's a real time gauge determining turn order, except there's one gauge for everyone and how fast you progress up it depends on your stats. Unlike the ATB system, the game pauses completely to let you make choices, and this is very important as, again, unlike ATB you can interrupt attacks. Hitting somebody will cause their icon on the turn gauge to stop for a while and if you pull off a fast move whilst they're casting a slow, but powerful one? The move will be cancelled and they'll be knocked back to the start of the gauge. On top of that, your actions will change where your character is located on the battle screen, so you need to consider positioning, too. Hitting an enemy on the other side of the screen takes longer than one that's next to you, risking interruption. This makes it very important to watch the gauge as your moves might be interrupted too. If the enemy's turn is close to yours and you're fairly close to them, maybe a slow, lumbering move is a bad idea? On the other hand if their turn is slightly ahead, maybe they've been charging up, maybe this will be a good opportunity to interrupt?

Final Fantasy X has a pretty cool system, too. I was glad they ditched the ATB system; it wasn't bad (I especially liked it in IV and V) but it was never my favourite. Being able to see the turn order and how your actions will influence it makes you consider your tactics a lot more. Delaying enemy turns is much more important than in any previous games (where it was only really possible by using Slow or Stop, IIRC) and being able to swap out your characters and equipment to suit the situation prevents anyone or anything from becoming truly useless. It allows for some interesting tactics, too. If someone is badly wounded, but your healer won't get a turn until after the enemy, you can simply swap them out for someone in good health for now.

Spiderweb Software's games have some pretty cool combat. Not "the best" but I feel they're kinda unnapreciated and worth mentioning. They're grid-based, with turns based on initiative rather than "team" turns (like D&D or the above-mention Final Fantasy X) and what you are capable of doing is determined by action points (like Fallout 1 and 2). Most of the games have a system similar to D&D's "attack of opportunity" where, if you're adjacent to an enemy and try to move away, they get a free attempt to attack. But in Spiderweb games you are, instead, "slowed", so you don't take damage but you can't move as far. It really makes you consider who to send out to the front lines. The battles are very fast-paced, not very flashy, but very satisfying. The action-points system forces you to think hard about what you'll do in a turn. You can use it all on moving or you *might* be able to heal then attack if you're lucky.

There are too many I could mention, Final Fantasy Tactics and V, Tactics Ogre, Xcom, SMT: Strange Journey (which doesn't use press turns), Persona 3 and 4 (which use a variation on press turns, called "one more!", though they do get repetitive due to the calendar system slowing your progress through the dungeons), Temple of Elemental Evil (the best digital implementation of D&D rules ever, for my money). I really love turn-based combat.

I've been meaning to pick up Jagged Alliance 2, can anyone confirm how good it is? I wasn't *too* keen on Silent Storm if it helps, but that was mainly because having snipers made it too easy.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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For PC, the Temple of Elemental Evil PC game and the old SSI AD&D games always did it for me. A battle was always a very tactical and very fair challenge and made those games so addictive, to the point where even the ones with no stories (like ToEE) were still worth playing.

For console games I liked the combat in the Front Mission series, and Shining Force although on reflection I'm not sure it's that different from FF so I don't know why I liked it so much better. Been a while since I've played those games though.
 

Sarge034

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Platituder said:
Not really all that good of a system, but has anyone played Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes?
I got it for free on the 360 a while back. Haven't played any PvP but I think it's a fun little game. Some parts are annoying as shit though...

OT- I haven't played that many turn based games but of the ones I have played imma go with X-Com Enemy Unknown. The predetermined numbers thing was kindda derpy but it did keep you on your toes!
 

scorptatious

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WhiteFangofWar said:
The Megami Tensei games and its many spinoffs also built their reputation at least in part due to the creation of the Press Turn system, which can really mess you up sometimes but rewards exploiting both elemental and status weaknesses as well as making diverse sets of resistances very important.
Speaking as someone who's currently playing Nocturne, I agree with you.

There's just something awesome about building a badass team of demons with a large variety of skills, magic, buffs and debuffs in order to take full advantage of the press turn system. And it is indeed challenging in the sense that too many mistakes and lack of preparation can cause huge problems for your party. I was just facing one boss who used a physical buff spell on herself twice. Then I forgot to use Dekaja on her. Which resulted in half of my team being wiped out by her Earthquake on her next turn.

It's a kind of system which is challenging, but fair. For the most part anyway.

[small] Stupid Dante getting two crits in a row on me on the first turn [/small] >_<