What is the best turn-based combat system you have seen in a game?

[Fractral]

The Megami Tensei games and its many spinoffs also built their reputation at least in part due to the creation of the Press Turn system, which can really mess you up sometimes but rewards exploiting both elemental and status weaknesses as well as making diverse sets of resistances very important.

Speaking as someone who's currently playing Nocturne, I agree with you.

There's just something awesome about building a badass team of demons with a large variety of skills, magic, buffs and debuffs in order to take full advantage of the press turn system. And it is indeed challenging in the sense that too many mistakes and lack of preparation can cause huge problems for your party. I was just facing one boss who used a physical buff spell on herself twice. Then I forgot to use Dekaja on her. Which resulted in half of my team being wiped out by her Earthquake on her next turn.

It's a kind of system which is challenging, but fair. For the most part anyway.

[small] Stupid Dante getting two crits in a row on me on the first turn [/small] >_<

Ah, Skadi. Such an annoying boss, in an annoying area. She's actually a really good party member late game (as in, right up to the final boss) because she has no weaknesses and a good host of resistances.
What I did like about Nocturne was how some bosses abused the battle system as well as you, like Mot. My first attempt at fighting him was basically him just spamming Beast Eye, using a few magic buffs and then wiping my party with almighty attacks before I could move. Plus he has like 90% resistance to everything but lightning.
So yeah, SMT games have really good turn based systems. I did also like the Persona style, although the changes to the knockdown mechanics in Persona 4 annoyed me a little.

Now I want to replay Nocturne again. It's so good!

 

[immortalfrieza]

In my experience (which obviously won't be shared by everyone) it's never really been that extreme. I think I died a total of 8 times in the entirety of Nocturne and all of them were down to a multitude of mistakes and came at the end of battles I was already losing. I've found that the game is pretty good about letting you get used to what the enemies in that area are like without just murdering you outright, you just need to be careful. If you have your baseline team cover a decent set of resistances, you'll be fine no matter where you go, and can swap to a more specialised team once you know what you'll be up against. Digital Devil Saga is a bit worse about it, because you can't just fuse new demons as you need them, but there are still ways to cover up weaknesses and buffs/debuffs are still way more useful than in any other RPG I can name.

I don't know about you, but with SMT games I have the tendency without a guide to have my Main Character die a lot from tiny mistakes and cheap shots, and since that means game over (another thing I've always hated about it BTW) equals a lot of frustration on my part. One can cover for weaknesses true, but one also needs a guide or trial and error to be know how to fuse demons or whatever to get those, it's really more trouble than it worth.

OT: Almost forgot to put in my vote, I like Chrono Cross' system. Strengths and weaknesses for both allies and enemies even for basic strikes are important, but unlike the SMT system not so much so that one has to plan and prepare to the extreme to avoid losing.

 

[Ender910_v1legacy]

There's not many turn based/tactical games I've played that I feel quite match up to the Avernum series. One of the few games I've seen where positioning and using your environment is an extremely vital element. To the point to where power building was only a thing if you were going to go for one of the extreme difficulty levels. And even then, it was kept fairly simple, so you didn't have the kind of huge numbers silliness that you get with a lot of other games (Final Fantasy, mmo's, etc etc).

I especially liked that almost any combat situation could be challenging, without being quite overkill (save for the burning/splitting/exploding slimes from Avernum 3 and 4, those were brutal). Addictively fun to boot as well. It had just the right kind of pace, and it was soooo satisfying to sneak into an enemy bandit stronghold and fight your way through hall after hall.

 

[Frozengale]

The first two Paper Mario games, and the Mario & Luigi RPG series. These games make turn based actually interesting. The biggest problem I have with Turn Based RPGs is that if you boil it down the entire system is just one giant puzzle. There will always be one set answer for "How to do the most damage". Every single turn in those games can basically be a logic tree. It's the reason I have a problem getting into RPGs in general. I don't feel like I'm playing a game so much as slowly and laboriously solving an incredibly easy, incredibly long puzzle. The Mario RPGs on the other hand take it a step further. They say, "Sure there may be a 'right answer' for every single situation, but whether or not you can actually pull off the moves to do it is another question".

South Park: Stick of Truth also did a pretty good job at using this system as well.

The only problem is that all of these games tend to be really easy. The attacks aren't hard enough to pull off, and a lot of the time you can beat a lot of the enemies without successfully pulling off the Timed Attacks. But I love them for trying.

Honorable Mention is Mother 3. Combining rhythm game mechanics with some of the attacks is just pure genius.

 

[Aluwolf]

Kotor probably, played it for the first time about a year and a half ago, completly blown away by how in depth the game is.

Second choice would have to be Civ 5 after the expansions. The game totally is different and so much is right now with them.

 

[go-10]

I'm going to go with the unpopular opinion and say Final Fantasy X-2, that in my opinion is the fastest turn based battle system. You constantly need to be paying attention to enemy behavior, what job you're currently wearing, whether you need to change jobs or not, how much health you have, and what your next move should be based on who made the last move.

battles in X-2 were insanely fast paced as the game progressed and changing jobs on the fly was not only a strategic necessity but the only way to guarantee not getting 1 hit KO

 

[pejhmon]

Advance Wars on Gameboy. I like turn based strategy games and these came out real well! You had Several generals with special abilities which you could use one during a mission. The campaign was usually pretty lengthy with the option to replay with unlocked generals. The gameplay had cities you had to control to earn resources(gold) to purchase troops. It had real good graphics and sound as well and they made at least 3 and I am pretty sure of a 4th. I miss them greatly considering I don't think it came to 3DS and I hoped for sure it would have gotten a Wii port but it seems to have fallen off of existence.

This, although my experience is from playing Advanced Wars Dual Strike (DS version). Really liked the combination of resource management, character buffs/debuffs and tag-team effects. The game had a good amount of diversity in the unit choices with enough rock-paper-scissor counters to make it strategic, but also with the OP units to make it interesting, especially given the ammo and fuel mechanics (neotanks ftw)

There was actually an Advance Wars game on the DS after Dual Strike, but apparently it lost a lot of it's charm, not to mention the mechanics of Dual Strike.

I played that one. It was alright, but yes the original Dual Strike game was a lot better, both in terms of game play mechanics and in terms of story. However, the later game was harder than the original, which was a nice challenge but a bit ridiculous at times

 

[Eve Charm]

It was P4 till Bravely default came out, I just want a competent auto battle system in my grind heavy rpgs that will let me set tactics or set moves at the press of a button. And yay fast forward.

 

[aozgolo]

Well I'm going to have to put my chips on...

Dragon Quest VIII

"WHAAAAAAAAAT? That system is the simplest of the simple man!"

Yes... and no. The true beauty of the turn-based battle system I think is it does not rely at all upon twitch mechanics, QTEs, or "acting quickly". It's all about strategy, and one of the things that Dragon Quest has been able to do by not changing their approach to battles is fine tune their difficulty.

I think a turn-based battle system fails when you just auto-attack your way through every single battle that ISN'T a boss, because that's boring and grindy and you aren't engaged.

If you try to auto-attack through every trash mob battle in Dragon Quest VIII beyond the first couple of areas you will get massacred. Like the back of the box even says "Easy to pick up, challenging to master". I won't go so far as to say that it's the most challenging RPG out there, it isn't by a long shot, but I have very rarely found a true turn based battle system that made me so invested in every single fight as DQVIII did. You really did have to use your skills, use your magic, use the Tension system, use your items. Plus if you weren't properly levelled for a boss fight it could be very challenging for you.

It wins though for it's engagement and pure fun (I mean how often is catching a "Dancing Bug" used as a status effect?)

 

[Platituder]

Are we really not stating any tabletop games? No Warmachine, Warhammer, or anything? Screw it, I'll be the first:

The Games Workshop's specialty games are my favorite turn based systems: Blood Bowl, Mordenheim, Space Hulk, and especially Necromunda. Each of these games gives a feeling of grit and struggle. You don't have all mighty badasses, but instead a mediocre gang. For example, in Necromunda you can amass power to the point of being untouchable in the Undercity... but above you there are Space Marines that can easily kick your ass.

Unfortunately all of these games have been discontinued by GW. But there is hope; they are being made into video games by various studios. Right now we have video game versions of Blood Bowl and Space Hulk, but I'm holding my breath for the other two.

Well, if we use tabletop games, I guess I'd have to say that chess and go are some of the best.

 

[Cerebrawl]

Card Hunter. The system there is absolutely amazing, the light randomisation applying to what options you have available stop it getting predictable or overly exploitable. The quest design demands constant creativity it has the most interesting loot of any game ever. That game is a complete masterpiece.

Played it from closed beta, loved it. Totally turned off by the monetization when it was released and part of the loot was made hostage to a monthly sub fee and really rubbed your face in it, nagware style.

I really like the new XCOM, and even as a fan of the series from the first game, I quite like how it was handled. It's smoother. Though I'd say Silent Storm did it better than the previous XCOM games. It really has an outstanding combat system, and the destructible terrain is so much fun, and the hearing system really is the icing on the cake. "I hear someone moving on the floor above me, better let rip with some full auto machinegun fire!" *DAKKADAKKADAKKA*

Lots of good examples in this thread really.

For perhaps a few less mainstream ones...

Wakfu did/does(haven't played since beta) turn-based grid action/move point system really well, and in an MMO at that, with grouping. That's quite a feat. Maybe I should have a look at that again, been a while, maybe they've added content and tightened up class balance.

NEStalgia is more classical turn-based RPG style, Dragon Quest / Wizardry / etc style. But MMO, up to 3 player party, and multiplayer PvE is a blast, especially tough boss battles.

I really liked Romancing SaGa series, especially Romancing SaGa 3. Excellent deep system with oodles of customization. I've recently started up a playthrough of the PS2 remake of the first game, it's a bit daunting in its complexity, but still pretty good. Hard to pick up, but lots of replayability. Shame the only way to play Romancing SaGa 3 is in japanese or fantranslated rom, it didn't have an official english release, the fantranslation is great though. PS2 remake of the first game did however have an english release, with voice acting as well.

 

[sethisjimmy]

Probably Pokemon. A wealth of systems, utterly and completely customizable strategies and builds allowing for huge creativity, none of that "bosses can't have status inflictions" stuff, varied moves and abilities, all wrapped around a simple rock paper scissors style base game. I only wish the single player game was a little more challenging.

I also Paper Mario 2. A very simple system with a small element of timing works wonders to keep the player engaged.

 

[Rack]

Card Hunter. The system there is absolutely amazing, the light randomisation applying to what options you have available stop it getting predictable or overly exploitable. The quest design demands constant creativity it has the most interesting loot of any game ever. That game is a complete masterpiece.

Played it from closed beta, loved it. Totally turned off by the monetization when it was released and part of the loot was made hostage to a monthly sub fee and really rubbed your face in it, nagware style.

I wish I could say that didn't bother me, but it was infuriating that they do the "here's what you could get, but if you pay us now you can still have it."

The payment model is rationally speaking very generous, you get a good amount of loot without paying extra and an enormous amount of content for free but the impact of being shown what you miss out on, and the payment for that thing being unreasonable for what you get sours the experience.

 

[Ranorak]

Because there was already a tabletop game mentioned, I'll throw in mine. (Now, I might be mistaken if this game is it's origin or not but it's the first game I played to feature this. )

Shadowrun 5's Initiative system.

What makes shadowrun 5's initiative different from, say, Dungeons and dragons, is that in D&D, you roll your D20, and your initiative modifier and get a flat number, say 18. The highest goes first, then the second and the third and so on. until the battle is done.

Shadowrun 5 does it a little different.
You roll a 1D6 (or more, depending on some active spells or implants) and add your initiative modifier. This too is a plat number, say 14. The highest goes first, then the second, and the third, and so on. But, after everyone had it's turn. You subtract 10 from the initiative score, thus 14-10 = 4. Anyone with a number above 0 can take an additional action this turn. Subtract another 10, and if anyone is still left with a positive number, he gets a third action this turn. Once everyone is below or at 0, the turn ends. Then everyone rerolls their initiative at the beginning of the next turn.

This system not only lets you go first if your fast, it also lets you take multiple actions during 1 turn. Implants, magic or spending Edge can increase the number of D6 you get to throw.

 

[Archangel768]

My pick goes to either Shadow Hearts: Covenant (it's like FF X, only better) or the press turn system of the later Shin Megami Tensei titles - unforgivable, but so satisfying!

Shadows Hearts 1 and Covenant (the only two of the series I played) were amazing for the fact that they are the only jrpgs I have no had to endure the torture of grinding my characters. I simply went through the game, bosses gave a challenge but were defeatable at current levels. Absolutely amazing to see how well tuned they made it so that you didn't have to grind (well I didn't at least).

 

[Archangel768]

Final Fantasy X is the epitome of a perfect turn based battle system. The level of strategy in the fights, from understanding the enemies patterns (particularly bosses), knowing the order of turns and working out how to affect it, allowing you to swap characters in and out which allows for a complete change of tactics mid battle were brilliant ideas of the time and they still hold up today.

The only game that would compare to it would be Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth and that just so happens to be a complete rip off of the Final Fantasy X battle system and is what made that game so much fun. I mean, Lord of the Rings and Final Fantasy X's battle system? That's a combination that's bound to be amazing.

I agree. Final Fantasy X's battle system rules.

And I think you may be thinking of Lord of the Rings: the Third Age? Battle for Middle-Earth was a top-down strategy game, I believe.

Haha yes, that's the one! My bad. xD

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually, I really am loving the gameplay for South Park: The Stick of Truth.

South Park aside, the gameplay is extremely tight and well thought out. It would require some more depth overall to be truly great but what it has, it does excellently. They've taken a genre that is usually harder for people to engage in and made entry into it easier while keeping the challenge there.

 

[theevilgenius60]

My favorites would be SMT's press turn system and its little brother, Persona 3&4's "one more" system. Press turn is obviously better in that it can sting you just as harshly as it can sting the demons, but fully mastering it will make you feel damn near invincible(then you get Hama/Mudo'd and hello there Charon). The one more system was like a lighter version of press turn, with less chance of you getting bitten by the the system. Persona 3's version was harder than 4's because you only controlled your MC(while giving general commands to the others) and multihit spells(ma- type) had to hit every enemy in order to get your "one more". It took some calculation sometimes. Should I hit these guys individually with the individual spells higher hit percentage or try with the all hitter and save some SP that I might need later in the dungeon(don't want my guys all running home when I go back to the lobby for a refill).