What is the "Citizen Kane" of Video Games?
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What does that really prove? IMDb isn't exactly the prime examble of legit voting. If you check out how the votes are done, you'll see that thousands of people gave several movies in the top 250 a '1' just to lower its status and boost their favorites.ranger19 said:
IMDb is a haven among 12-18, because they get to decide what the 250 best movies are.
While I of course like many of the movies that are on the top 250 (The Dark Knight, Inception) and really like some others (Shawshank), I don't think they quite deserve to be viewed as some of the greatest masterpieces of all time. So the IMDb top 250 isn't the greatest way to check the best movies ever, only how the most active teen internet-goers would rank it.
Also, I don't really know what is being ment when people say: "The Citizen Kane of video games. When Citizen Kane came out, it kind of revolutonized motion pictures. So you want the equivalent for video games? Fine, then I'd say its Super Mario Bros.
I know IMDB isn't exactly the best source for ratings, but I was just trying to give a broad sense of society's thoughts on Citizen Kane. I can elaborate further here. If you go around and ask people what their favorite movie is, chances are extremely likely that they won't say Citizen Kane. And I'm not just talking about the rabble on the street; I think many movie critics would agree. The movie was definitely influential, but many movies since then have been able to build on its foundation. I think The Shawshank Redemption is far more commonly cited as the "best" movie.Drauden said:
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
In all seriousness, I say either Portal, Bioshock, or Dead Space. But thats just me.
In all seriousness, I say either Portal, Bioshock, or Dead Space. But thats just me.
My guess would be 'Ocarina of Time'.
As for the IMDB debate Citizen Kane tends to be celebrated by critics/academics more than film fans without an academic background in the subject of film in my opinion.
If you look at the BFI or AFI top 25 films I am sure Citizen Kane makes both.
As for the IMDB debate Citizen Kane tends to be celebrated by critics/academics more than film fans without an academic background in the subject of film in my opinion.
If you look at the BFI or AFI top 25 films I am sure Citizen Kane makes both.
Well then how the hell did you miss Metal Gear Solid? I'm only 2 years older than you, and I caught that in the early 2000's, I made good use of my PS2's backwards compatibility and MGS1 was an unmissable title, mainly off the back of MGS2 I figured I better play the prequel first.Clockwork Scarecrow. said:
Many subsequent games have risen to the standard of that game but so few have tried to move their players quite as much. Then again, MGS2 probably tried too hard and ended up a pretentious mess in terms of artistic narrative.
I'm not judging you personally, my original comment was broadly, how little recognition there is of the classics. Interesting Citizen Kane, it would be a while before another film would come along of that calibre.
Well interesting you say that, Halo CE actually DID have a health bar and health packs, the only regenerative part was the energy shield, the armour (Halo Reach and ODST seems to have even gone back to this), not to mention the "aliens everywhere" part. What did this recharging Armour actually do?Ironic Pirate said:
Well ultimately it made the consequences of being damaged meaningless unless the damage was at a HIGH RATE, it took so much challenge out of combat. And then when you were hurt so much your armour was gone, what could you do? Run and hide, you armour only begins recharging when you have avoided being shot for a certain length of time, that totally slows down the pace of combat.
The "quick weapon switch" PC has had for a while, most PC games had and have a "switch to previous weapon" key that you could map to wherever you liked. So you'd play a game much like halo, a button press to switch between 2 weapons, but if you got bored of your current weapon-combo (like Shotgun + Sniper rifle) you wouldn't have to hunt around for more weapons, you'd just have to select one then select the other.
To PC gamers Halo just felt like what they had always had, but merely removal of the ability of having a weapons inventory, making it seem it had been dumbed down for consoles. There just don't seem to be enough buttons on consoles to have a quick select inventory, without it getting too complicated for a wide audience.
As to how revolutionary Halo 2 with its début for online competitive multiplayer on console I had been doing the same for much longer on PC, with the likes of:
-Unreal Tournament (Original and 2004)
-Star Wars Battlefront
-Counter Strike (Original and Source)
-Warcraft 3
-Aliens Vs Predator 2
-Quake 1, 2, 3 and mods
-Battlefield 1942/Vietnam
-Mechwarrior
-Medal of Honor and Early CoD (the ones made by West & Zampella)
I think this is the source of a lot of the Halo rift, it just brought very established things to a wider audience in a dumbed down way... and about 5 years too late at that.
Personally, I have to go with Planetscape Torment. It's obscure, "deep" and pretentious as all hell. However, it's one of the best rpgs created, with a deep moral system, and an engaging story. No cookie cutter teamates. No generic fantasy setting. It's also one of my personal favorites, so I may be a tad biased.
When I first saw Heavy Rain and the premise, I really thought it could be that game. It does fall short, though. I'll treat it as art(as I do with many games), but it's not something that can be held up in many years calling it 'the one the changed the way games were viewed'.
If I were to say what has gotten the closest, I'd say the Silent Hill series, of which I've only touched the first 3.
If I were to say what has gotten the closest, I'd say the Silent Hill series, of which I've only touched the first 3.
Well seeing as Citizen Kane really set a point in time where movies could be classified as before or after Kane, I would say it would have to be Super Mario 64. It really made 3D games a real option and changed gaming forever.
Unless you weren't very good, the armor didn't come into play a ton. It's a fall back, really.Treblaine said:
The bit about the aliens was a bit of a joke, but whatever.
The regenerating shield, on the contrary, made getting shot worse, as you had less health. It made you take cover, rather than walk about like the Terminator until you finally got to the 50s on your meter.
I never mentioned "quick weapon switching" I mentioned giving you only two weapons to encourage tactical thinking. I read an interview with a PC developer (can't recall his name, but I'll edit it in if I do) saying "Our philosophy, and the philosophy of lots of other devs is that there are nine numbers on the num-pad, so give the player nine guns". That doesn't encourage tactical thinking very much. You never have to plan for the future with your guns, because you have all of them.
Halo isn't "dumbed down" because removing complexity isn't making it less intelligent. Tell me, which requires more intelligence, remembering a few more buttons, or having to plan and make intelligent weapon choices based on the current and possible future situation? Looking about for health packs, or taking cover?
" in there somewhere)I think the 'gaming is to young' argument needs to be put in context. Citizen Kane was released in 1941. Cinema has existed as a technical medium since the mid 1890's meaning Citizen Kane was released 55 years after the first examples of film. The origins of computer games sits somewhere between the early 60's and 70's making the medium about 40-50 years old. Gaming is now of a similar age to cinema was when Citizen Kane was produced.
p.s. Of course all the dates can be contested, it is important though to remember Citizen Kane isn't as old as cinema.
p.s. Of course all the dates can be contested, it is important though to remember Citizen Kane isn't as old as cinema.
Trying to find the "Citizen Kane" of video games is impossible, given the fact that video games are vastly more varied than films. You have platformers, JRPG's, sand box RPG's, puzzle games, adventure games, first person shooters, third person shooters, etc etc etc. Not to mention that video games are always going to be artisticly held back by technology and the uncanny valley making it hard to associate with the characters. Gaming as a whole has had many "Citizen Kane" moments, such as Half Life 2 using no cutscenes to tell a story and make you care about the NPCs' plight, or Minecraft showing that you don't need a story at all and to blur the line between artistic piece and artistic medium, or Starcraft teaching us all to hate Koreans. The point is, gaming, like comics, IS WEEEEIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRD and has far too many ways to induce immersion to pick a eureka point that shows what they can do.
But Halo didn't set any precedents. It wasn't really the first anything, except the first to unite some other mechanics into the basic FPS genre. Games like Doom and Quake set a precedent, at least for FPS. Overall games like Starcraft and Morrowind set precedents for quality and modability. Halo simply improved upon an existing field with superior technologies, it didn't do anything special. As another poster said, Halo is fun and exciting, but overall it is extremely safe. The formula was there, the technology was available, all Bungie had to do was not mess up and the game sold like hotcakes.Ph33nix said:
I think it's hard to say and I don't think it really has one. VIdeo Games are very different so it's hard to judge them on those terms.
I'd say the closest thing would be the original Super Mario Bros. though. It was the groundbreaking point for videogames that started the modern incarnation of the medium.
I'd say the closest thing would be the original Super Mario Bros. though. It was the groundbreaking point for videogames that started the modern incarnation of the medium.