What makes Guild Wars 2 different from generic MMOs?

[Aprilgold]

This is a serious question, what is supposed to make Guild Wars 2 different from generic MMOs (Everquest, WoW, The Old Republic, etc).

In those three games you mentioned, there is a singular problem with it, and this may be something not everyone sees but for a "MMO" they fail to do one thing, support cooperation. It's so simple but none of them do it well. "Ah FFUUUCCK someone killed X enemy before I got Y item, now I have to wait with three other players and fight tooth and nail to get it. Sure we could party up but since there are like three menus in the way it would be just as efficient to fight over it."

In Guild Wars 2, your always, always in a party with everyone. Being in a party doesn't give you any direct benefits that being out of a party doesn't. The only direct benefit to being in a party is that it is way easier to follow your friend around and you can go into personal stories with friends, thats it.

Also, PS. Everything can be bought via the ingame currency of gold and this is rubbed in the faces of anyone who is thinking "oh well its a 1 time purchase thus meaning the cash-shop is bullshitly priced" at free.

The digital version of the game, sold by Arenanet themselves, has the unique ability to be sold out, even though it's digital. Only one other MMO managed to achieve that, that MMO being TOR.

Seriously, fuck Guild Wars 2. I probably won't buy it now. This is pathetic. No, Arenanet, I will not buy the collectors edition just because you want to nickel and dime me by refusing to sell the normal version of the game.

Let me ask you a hypothetical, would you rather be crammed in the same server in the same area with five-hundred people, completely breaking the events and even further breaking the quests just to play the game and get a bad experience that way or have to wait for their servers to empty out because of the couple hundred kids who bought it because it had a dragon in it and have a much more enjoyable experience?

 

[faefrost]

This is a serious question, what is supposed to make Guild Wars 2 different from generic MMOs (Everquest, WoW, The Old Republic, etc). I watched a few videos and the combat seems to be the same as most MMOs, so I don't really see that as a valid argument. I don't know if there is something I'm not seeing or if there is more to it than that, but if you know what it is then speak up. After years of WoW I need a new MMO and if this is as good as its hyped up to be than I'm all in.

P.S. a one time payment is not what I'm talking about. Just want to throw that out before I get a half dozen posts saying you don't have to sell your kidney on the black market to pay for it.

The tone of this post sounds a tad confrontational, like you're spoiling for a debate, so I'm hesitant to weigh in here, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Fully voiced storyline. Only seen in two other MMOs to date (TOR, TSW). GW2 is probably the weakest of the three in this regard.

2. Public questing/dynamic events. Only seen in a few other MMOs to date (WAR, Rift). Done better and more seamlessly here than in either.

3. Dynamic level scaling helps prevent content obsolescence. Areas and enemies no longer "go grey", and the entire game world stays viable as a questing area at level 80. Prevents the "pyramid of content" where end game shrinks to a tiny handful of zones.

4. No raiding. Not unique to the genre, but rare for a theme park MMO.

5. No mob tagging/experience sharing. Damage the mob? You get full xp and a full share of loot.

6. You share buffs/auras etc with everyone, not just group members.

7. No "gear grind". Gear plateaus at level 80.

8. All scenario based PvP scales you to level 80 and gives you access to all your abilities, and puts everyone in matching gear. 100% skill based.

9. 3 faction open world PvP with keep sieges, as previously seen in DAoC.

10. No self-rooting. Virtually all abilities can be cast/fired while moving.

11. No holy trinity of tank/healer/DPS. There are no aggro control mechanics, and all classes can self-heal. Damage mitigation is achieved through control, kiting, and dodging.

Off the top of my head, those are the major features that distinguish it from the recent generation of MMOs. It's closest contemporary is Rift, but it has heavy influences from WoW and DAoC as well. It is an evolutionary rather than a revolutionary MMO, but it is probably the most progressive MMO on the market in terms of design.

It offers the largest dollop of launch day content since WoW, and probably the most detailed and dense world as well. It's the most rewarding exploration game since Everquest. It is also probably the most promising PvP MMO since DAoC. It is NOT an MMO for the hardcore PvE raid set, however. And if you loathe pressing buttons to activate abilities, you're better off waiting for Planetside 2.

Sooo Asheron's Call circa 2000? Primarily solo play, with and around others? No real end game outside of constant PvP? And no gear, sparkly foozle collection, or escalating group challenge progression to appeal to the PvE players. Gotcha!

 

[Fishyash]

It's the next step into how suspension of disbelief is maintained in MMOs. It shows mainly in the superior combat (compared to say, WoW or SWTOR) and the new ways to quest, explore and level up.

AAA MMORPG titles are really risky. They cost a lot of money to make, and the game mechanics are inferior compared to pretty much any other action-based genre. That's why most MMOs play it safe, including WoW (which only got big because it had the best timed release in the history of gaming).

Anet is willing to take the next step. It's not a very big one, but it's a step nonetheless.

So yes, Anet does bring something new to the MMORPG market. If you were expecting something mindblowing... well...

I wouldn't say it's mindblowing (as much as Anet would say it is), I think many people were expecting too much out of Anet.

One issue I have is they haven't really said much about the endgame. I'm assuming they will be making more difficult PvE content? Guild wars 1 was designed to be a PvP MMO (that didn't have much of an endgame either, beyond a couple of group instances and "do everything again in had mode"), but I cannot say the same about GW2. I don't think there will be a gear progression though, so I think that bring new and more difficult challenges to the game will be interesting.

I will say something personal about this. I didn't really enjoy GW2 too much during the beta events. It only became more enjoyable when the game was fully released, I got to experience WvWvW properly, and the game actually ran well enough on my (admittedly old-ish) machine.

 

[smartalec]

Hm. In the opinion of those who've played GW2, will there likely be a point - similar to SW:TOR - when many players decide there's nothing more to do, and leave?

 

[Cette]

Sooo Asheron's Call circa 2000? Primarily solo play, with and around others? No real end game outside of constant PvP? And no gear, sparkly foozle collection, or escalating group challenge progression to appeal to the PvE players. Gotcha!

ROFL. Did I call this shit, or what?

Next time you set out trolling, try not to be quite so transparent about it. That was almost depressingly predictable.

Not saying the fella wasn't trolling somewhat there but is he actually wrong in that assessment? I mean it seems like The Secret World is doing more innovative crap albeit to mixed success while guild wars is getting absolutely fellated to death for trying less?

I'll likely give it a try some point but I'm just not seeing the radical appeal.

 

[Fidelias]

I've been playing it for a few days now, and I can say, Guild Wars 2 isn't really that different.

Sure, the combat is more action oriented, but it doesn't give you as many options as The Secret World. Once you unlock 5 skills for whatever weapon-combo you want to use for your class, that's it. You can only unlock Healing/Utility skills that are more about passive buffs, healing, or traps, rather than actual attacks.

The questing is kind of interesting. You have dynamic events (Random events happen in certain places that you have to take care of) that are pretty cool. The main quest is nice and well-made. But the other side quests are boring and un-interesting. You just go to a certain area, and you have to do small jobs, REPEATEDLY, to fill up a meter. Sure, you're not fighting giant rats, but it gives the same feeling as doing mundane task number 22.
And then, you can't even go back and do these again for more experience.

This game relies on you to do the Dynamic Events to gain levels, but since they are RANDOM you could go hours without stumbling into one, halting any progress towards the next part of the game, until you're lucky enough to find one.

It's not that Guild Wars 2 is a bad game, it's actually pretty great, but there are some SERIOUS pacing issues that need to be addressed.

Edit: Oh and also, some people have extremely bad lag, while others don't. Sometimes I log in and I can't even play the game, the server lag is so bad, while other times I don't have a single problem. You just never know.

 

[Denamic]

It removes a lot of unnecessary tedium and makes playing fun and interesting.
For example, as an engineer, I can be a ranged DPS by throwing grenades, AoE specialist by using a fucking flamethrower, or a unique take on melee by setting powerful timed bombs where you stand, among many other things. The variety is staggering, and playing never feels restricted. Quests are all dynamic. They happen in the world whether you're there or not; you only need to go there and take part if you feel like it. And there'll often be world bosses as well. You don't have to organize a raid or even a group for that either. Just go there and start; people will eventually show up for it. There's no competition or kill stealing either. See someone taking down a group of mobs? Go there and help! It's pure win-win, and he won't get reduced XP, both of you gets loot, and you both get bonus XP for taking down mobs faster. Same with quests. Everyone in the area are doing the same quests as you, meaning that everyone helps progressing it, you no need to compete for quest mobs or items.

All in all, they use many old tropes in new ways, making for a fresh experience.
I also love how you can travel to anywhere you've been in the world at any time simply by teleporting through the map.
I'm kinda tired of 30 minute travel times.

 

[Friendly Lich]

It seems to me that WoW players always want new games to be different from WoW but then they get whiny when its too different for them.

 

[Folji]

Guild Wars 2 doesn't make me feel like I'm following a pre-arranged rope through zone after zone, completing quest after quest in a carefully planned string. I feel like I can explore more, go where I want to go, meet up with someone along the way and just head somewhere, and when I get there we'll find something we can all jump into without needing to worry about quests people have or haven't done, criteria people do or don't meet and so on.

It feels liberating.

 

[smartalec]

It seems to me that WoW players always want new games to be different from WoW but then they get whiny when its too different for them.

It does make sense... kind of. That yearning for something 'better' will always conflict with that wish to stay within one's own comfort zone. Everyone always hopes for something that will occupy a 'sweet spot' between the two, a sweet spot that may not exist.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Not saying the fella wasn't trolling somewhat there but is he actually wrong in that assessment? I mean it seems like The Secret World is doing more innovative crap albeit to mixed success while guild wars is getting absolutely fellated to death for trying less?

I'll likely give it a try some point but I'm just not seeing the radical appeal.

The Secret World has indeed done a few innovative things, but tied them to some extremely retrogressive mechanics. It also suffers from "TOR-itis", in that it has high-quality first time through game play in the form of its investigation missions and voiced story content, and then that's it. Once that's exhausted, you're left with a very old school loot and raid treadmill to run on to justify your subscription fee.

GW2 is the more mechanically progressive game. Many elements of its game play have appeared in other MMOs, but never collectively. Certainly not in the venerable Asheron's Call. As usual though, people will see what they want to see, because most of us live to have our confirmation biases reaffirmed.

TSW is not having "mixed success", by the way. They estimated 500,000-1,000,000 boxes sold. They ended up selling 200,000. Funcom laid off half their staff and have announced an intention to "focus on smaller projects in the future". In every measurable business sense, it's been an unmitigated disaster.

This game relies on you to do the Dynamic Events to gain levels, but since they are RANDOM you could go hours without stumbling into one, halting any progress towards the next part of the game, until you're lucky enough to find one.

What level are you? I've got a level 31, and several lower level alts. I went past level 20 twice in the betas. I've never gone longer than 5-10 minutes without seeing a dynamic event.

And it doesn't really "rely" on the Dynamic Events, although they are a major part of the content. I play with my GF and she's a bit of a laggard when it comes to reacting to nearby events, so I miss more than my share. And I'm finding the pace of XP gain to be ludicrously fast.

 

[Krantos]

The digital version of the game, sold by Arenanet themselves, has the unique ability to be sold out, even though it's digital. Only one other MMO managed to achieve that, that MMO being TOR.

Seriously, fuck Guild Wars 2. I probably won't buy it now. This is pathetic. No, Arenanet, I will not buy the collectors edition just because you want to nickel and dime me by refusing to sell the normal version of the game.

Go to Amazon or Impulse.

That's what I did when I bought my wife's account.

I really don't get what the point of that was, really. I wanted to give Arenanet all the money, but they wouldn't let me. Suit yourself AN.

OT: pretty much everything Guppy and omicron said. It's just different enough for me to want to play it, but familiar enough that I don't feel lost.

 

[zumbledum]

its just extremely well stream lined, from being able to auto summon crafting items through the production window without running to a bank to the standard quests and they are there and it is the normal grind and progress to the next its just you dont have to pick them up or drop them off and there is usually several criteria you can use to complete it.but believe me you follow those hearts across the map as you would any quest hub.

its done the impossible its more casual friendly and simpler than wow, dont get me wrong i quite like the game and im putting a few hours a day in but its not the crack substance ive got off some mmo's before.

for me the one massive fail is the skill systems, by about level 6 you have all of your skills, yes theres a bunch of utility based ones to get and the "elite" skill or dps timer button as you choose. but even with weapon swapping your looking at a staggering small amount of skills to use and with no choice of how the sets are put out you have little to no choice how to play as you either use the skills you get correctly or badly.
I think its the lack of choice rather than the number i mean GW let you have 6 or was it 8? been a few years since i played but you got to pick them, i started as a necro and i basically have 3 sets to choose from and well im a bit bored of them already at level 12.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

This game relies on you to do the Dynamic Events to gain levels, but since they are RANDOM you could go hours without stumbling into one, halting any progress towards the next part of the game, until you're lucky enough to find one.

Or you could craft, explore, do hearts in other starter areas, collect mats, do structured PvP or do WvWvW which has plenty of dynamic events.

Sooo Asheron's Call circa 2000? Primarily solo play, with and around others? No real end game outside of constant PvP? And no gear, sparkly foozle collection, or escalating group challenge progression to appeal to the PvE players. Gotcha!

There is plenty of high end gear skins to get from getting Karma or by doing the various jump puzzles if you're into that or doing the dungeons in explorable mode for high end pve.

OT: There are a lot of traditional elements like crafting and getting materials but it acts differently to some other games as seems a bit less cunty. Also the combat is completely different to other MMOs aside from still having the hot bar look.

 

[Cette]

Not saying the fella wasn't trolling somewhat there but is he actually wrong in that assessment? I mean it seems like The Secret World is doing more innovative crap albeit to mixed success while guild wars is getting absolutely fellated to death for trying less?

I'll likely give it a try some point but I'm just not seeing the radical appeal.

The Secret World has indeed done a few innovative things, but tied them to some extremely retrogressive mechanics. It also suffers from "TOR-itis", in that it has high-quality first time through game play in the form of its investigation missions and voiced story content, and then that's it. Once that's exhausted, you're left with a very old school loot and raid treadmill to run on to justify your subscription fee.

GW2 is the more mechanically progressive game. Many elements of its game play have appeared in other MMOs, but never collectively. Certainly not in the venerable Asheron's Call. As usual though, people will see what they want to see, because most of us live to have our confirmation biases reaffirmed.

TSW is not having "mixed success", by the way. They estimated 500,000-1,000,000 boxes sold. They ended up selling 200,000. Funcom laid off half their staff and have announced an intention to "focus on smaller projects in the future". In every measurable business sense, it's been an unmitigated disaster.

I was referring to execution in regards the success being mixed. Tis a fun and interesting game but not everything in it works so smooth and the number of broken quests can get annoying. Especially since it's the more mechanically interesting ones that tend to break. I find it's financial failure pretty disappointing but given when it was released and how niche it's appeal not super surprising.

I really like it personally but I can see why someone wouldn't and it's entirely too different in tone and setting for comparing head to head with any of the big fantasy MMO's.

If it's just a very finely tuned traditional fantasy type deal then I'll likely give it a go next time that's the sort of game I actually feel like playing. Would absolutely kill for something like an MMO version of Tribes Ascend though.

 

[Friendly Lich]

The digital version of the game, sold by Arenanet themselves, has the unique ability to be sold out, even though it's digital. Only one other MMO managed to achieve that, that MMO being TOR.

Seriously, fuck Guild Wars 2. I probably won't buy it now. This is pathetic. No, Arenanet, I will not buy the collectors edition just because you want to nickel and dime me by refusing to sell the normal version of the game.

Its not sold out the SERVERS ARE JAM PACKED!!! no more room right now. So they had to stop selling for a bit on digital copies.

 

[ramboondiea]

sorry to jump in with a somewhat unrelated post, but I am curious about this game and wondering if anyone would recommend it for someone who has never played an MMO before? just asking because the game looks good and having never played an MMO before whether its got generic MMO bits it wouldn't really effect me haha

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I was referring to execution in regards the success being mixed. Tis a fun and interesting game but not everything in it works so smooth and the number of broken quests can get annoying. Especially since it's the more mechanically interesting ones that tend to break. I find it's financial failure pretty disappointing but given when it was released and how niche it's appeal not super surprising.

I find it pretty surprising, to be honest. It's an utter marketing/launch window failure on the part of Funcom. The game needed more time and polish, and needed to NOT launch immediately before GW2 and MoP. It was begging to be run over. It should've been launched in October closer to Halloween, once the post MoP surge had died down. And really, it needed a different business model. Putting a sub fee on it in today's marketplace was a stupid, stupid decision. And it's at least partly to blame for the game getting shackled to a godawful dungeon grind treadmill once the quality content has been exhausted.

It's sitting at about 100K subs, and GW2 has only just now launched, and MoP still to come. TSW is in pretty grim waters.

I think its the lack of choice rather than the number i mean GW let you have 6 or was it 8? been a few years since i played but you got to pick them, i started as a necro and i basically have 3 sets to choose from and well im a bit bored of them already at level 12.

GW1 gave you a deck of 8 skills, in which you chose all 8.

GW2 gives you a deck of 10(15) skills, in which you elect the first 5 from a choice of 2-10ish, elect one from a choice of 3-4, and elect the last 4 from a choice of 25. These are further altered/effected by traits.

You don't have access to all your skills until level 30, and even then you won't have access to all of them until you've picked up sufficient skill points to unlock them, which can take quite a long time. The top rung elite skills take 30 skill points to unlock.

sorry to jump in with a somewhat unrelated post, but I am curious about this game and wondering if anyone would recommend it for someone who has never played an MMO before? just asking because the game looks good and having never played an MMO before whether its got generic MMO bits it wouldn't really effect me haha

Without knowing your gaming preferences it's impossible for me to give an informed recommendation. You might love it, you might hate it. What things about it interest you? What things give you pause? What are your expectations? What kind of games do you play now?

 

[Maeshone]

sorry to jump in with a somewhat unrelated post, but I am curious about this game and wondering if anyone would recommend it for someone who has never played an MMO before? just asking because the game looks good and having never played an MMO before whether its got generic MMO bits it wouldn't really effect me haha

Wait, you've never played an MMO? But... you have the templar symbol from The Secret World for your avatar...? I'm confused...

As for recommendation, for sure. As long as you don't mind hotkey-based combat and can afford the initial purchase prize, you should definately check it out. It's probably on of the easier MMOs to just jump into, next to WoW anyway.

Captcha: Which one is food? Uhm... I'm just gonna go stand over there now...

 

[ramboondiea]

sorry to jump in with a somewhat unrelated post, but I am curious about this game and wondering if anyone would recommend it for someone who has never played an MMO before? just asking because the game looks good and having never played an MMO before whether its got generic MMO bits it wouldn't really effect me haha

Wait, you've never played an MMO? But... you have the templar symbol from The Secret World for your avatar...? I'm confused...

As for recommendation, for sure. As long as you don't mind hotkey-based combat and can afford the initial purchase prize, you should definately check it out. It's probably on of the easier MMOs to just jump into, next to WoW anyway.

Captcha: Which one is food? Uhm... I'm just gonna go stand over there now...

had that avatar since i joined like 2 years ago, i was interested in secret world, my interest waned over time and with the game apparently not being good, which was a damn shame, also im just too lazy to change it so yeah, hope that helps the confusion ahha

the price doesn't put me off, if i get it it will be on next pay day, just curious as a game called guild wars probably emphases the whole guild thing, and having never played any kind of mmo before, I don't have any experience with it or people to join up with, I mean at most I may be able convince 4 people to get this game, but i assume i miss out on a lot if its not big groups, like that whole world against world mechanic they have.