What Martial Arts/Self Defense Do You Know?

[Triangulon]

I'm a bit out of practice but did Tae-Kwon-Do for 11 years prior to running out of time to carry on at Uni. Was getting ready to go for my 3rd Dan Black Belt but was already out of love with it due to bloody politics among the seniors in the area. It was all about the money unfortunately.

 

[Udyrfrykte]

I have to chime in.
Boxing IS a good art of self defense, among the top things I would recommend. If you want to argue for your aikido or tkd you should be very aware of that you are living in a bubble.

 

[Bobbity]

I did Tae-Kwon Do for what? Four years?

It was enjoyable, and I was getting reasonably good at it, but I didn't get the impression that the instructors were taking it seriously; even at the stage I was at we weren't really putting any force behind our strikes, at and we were still just going through the motions. I don't pretend to know better than them, but we weren't achieving much.

Now that I think about it though, it was kind of fun. Maybe I should pick it up again.

 

[Weirdwolf]

A few decades of Ju Jutsu,(which of course includes the use of bladed,stick and chain weapons) and kempo, along with a couple of different styles of karate that I used to do for fun. I have more than a passing experience in some other stuff but the ju jutsu is what I consider my art of choice.
Now of course I am a harmless old white haired gentleman who walks with a stick.
Here is what I've learned over the years of teaching,training and personal security work, sorry this is so long but I'm old and prone to ramble, senility catching up with me after too many shots to the head maybe:
Nike Fu is king, don't get into trouble, don't stay where there is trouble, if you fight no matter how good you are YOU WILL GET HURT, think you can disarm somebody with a knife? thing again, YOU WILL GET CUT,(if you don't believe me try getting a marker pen and really going at it like you would in the street,don't use the big telegraphing swings you see in some clubs but jabs and little slashes. Then take a look and see just how easy it is to mess up), multiple opponents won't come at you one at a time in a delightfully choreographed series,but a few at a time from the group much harder to deal with just hope you can make a hole and run.

No martial art is the ultimate, it goes in cycles, in the seventies kung fu was popular and then in the late seventies it was ninjutsu then tae kwon do in the 80's etc. Ninjutsu is an interesting one as it seems to come round quite often every few years. What all of these arts have in common is very good public relations and some very bad teachers who are willing to jump on the latest band wagon with or without training in whichever art it is they are supposed to be a master in. Don't believe the claims,Krav Maga is the art of choice at the mo I believe, soldiers don't do a lot of hand to hand because it's useless as anything other than body/mind teaching on the battlefield. Yes I know the Israeli army use it, but when you turn up on the battlefield in a tank or helicopter gunship it doesn't matter what art you use. It's easy to get sucked into the training style and mentality of a club when you train there every week, look around and keep an open mind.

Pick an art that you enjoy and suits you and what you want, Tae Kwon DO might be a wonderfully balletic sport,(it's something I know I could never do) and is great for fitness but as a form of self defence for most people it wouldn't be ideal. When you go to a club and they say they teach self defence look at what people are doing,when they punch somebody would they actually make contact if the person didn't move or is their fist in the air cm's away? Do they teach joint breaking, throws,(and most importantly how to fall, I often joke that the most important thing I ever learned was how to bounce) and groundwork? Do they not only teach defence against weapons but how to use them, learn to use a knife and you will know what to look for when somebody else is using one. Does it look realistic, stopping a sword by clapping your hands together or a knife by doing an upwards block with your arms crossed at the wrist may look spectacular but do you really think you would be able to pull something like that off in an environment other than a well lit dojo with your friends attacking you,(if the answer to that is yes by the way I have both a bridge for you to buy and a few stories I could tell). On the subject of knives etc. if a club uses live blades walk away, it's stupid and reckless and there is no need for it. My teacher had a promising student die because of a slip when using a live blade, a tragic accident that killed a young person for no reason, it's easily done and with a sharp blade any cut has the potential to kill. Treat all your weapons as dangerous and you have no need to run the risk, watch at a good club and when they pick up a wooden sword or knife they will never hold the part of the knife that would be a blade.

The one thing I can't stress enough is to find a good club, don't just go to the first one or the nearest or cheapest. Make sure that you watch a session or two first,(a good teacher won't mind) are the pupils working hard with little chatting and showing discipline and respect for everybody no matter what belt they are wearing. Ask about insurance, accidents can and do happen when training and if you have a job and get injured it's good to know that you will at least be able to have some money coming in. Insurance is a must if you get to the stage where you are teaching other people. Does the teacher mind being asked questions and is willing to show things again slowly or slightly differently? Does the teacher look as though he could actually do this stuff himself? A fat teacher doesn't always mean a bad teacher but you have to ask what discipline is like if he doesn't work hard himself. Listen to how they talk and treat other people, inflated grades or abilities may be true,(the internet is a very helpful thing for research) but you have to ask yourself when X managed to win 5 world titles was he competing in a system that only had a handful of clubs? Be wary of clubs where a person attains a black belt in a couple of years,(belts and grades don't always matter, it's if the person can do the stuff that really counts) are people paying for gradings, badges, belts,gi's all to the teacher? There are a LOT of MacDojo's around that give belts out at regular intervals where new black belts with only a couple of years training are sent out into the world to teach in malls because it brings in money. Do adults have a separate training session to the children? Speaking of children,I loved teaching children and know how much fun it can be and how rewarding for them but unfortunately there are some terrible stories of paedophiles who have used the pretense of teaching martial arts to abuse children. Does the teacher teach on his own? do they have the requisite background checks from the authorities are they happy to have parents sit and watch? Some teachers are great with children, it makes a big difference if they can make it fun for the kids and whilst being stern if they need to be treat them as children not mini adults.

I'm sorry this is so long and boring but you ofter see threads like this where people generally have no idea what to look for, I'm always willing to help out if anybody wants to ask because I have seen people invest years into something only to find that what they were doing was not what they wanted.

 

[Dastardly]

I'm thinking about starting Boxing soon and possibly doing Krav Maga next year and I was wondering what experience my fellow Escapists had to offer or any advice regarding these two or any other forms of martial art also general discussion thread regarding it.

The style you choose does not matter. Look into how it is taught.

Classic martial arts classes--learning forms, point-sparring, etc.--are good for flexibility and balance, but are far too abstract for any kind of defense capability. Some of the more practical martial arts (like krav maga) have their own problems for real-world applications.

1. Watch two nine-billionth degree black belts get into a real fight. They'll be using white belt techniques, nine times in ten. Reason? If you walk up to someone and swing at their face, odds are you'll hit them.

2. Too many of the more advanced techniques are counter-attack. That's why so many matches look like two people circling each other, waiting for the other person to make the first move. Because they are.

3. Other techniques are just plain useless in a real fight. Jump kicks? Please. You're giving up balance--you're greatest ally. Reaching up to kick someone in the head? You might as well punch them in the foot (plus you expose your groin). These moves look cool, and learning them is good for conditioning, but they're stupid to pull out in an actual fight.

4. Point bout systems (where the match goes until someone lands a "hit," then the action stops) teach two very wrong principles. Firstly, that you're doing something wrong if you take any hits. Sorry, but you will be hit, so you'd better learn how to deal with that. If you never take a real hit, your body (no matter how many belts you have) will panic the first time you're punched in the head.

5. The second wrong thing it teaches you is that you'll be able to stop your opponent with one hit. That's for movies. When you land that punch or kick, you'd better be ready for whatever comes next. Sometimes it's advantageous to take a hit in order to give three, and your opponent may be just about to pull that on you.

6. Groundfighting and submission holds are all well and good... when there is someone around to break up the fight, or if you're planning to go "all the way" and incapacitate the opponent. Otherwise, you've just trapped yourself on the ground with your opponent, and if he has back-up, you're vulnerable. In a real-world self-defense situation, you're much better off if you get your opponent down and then escape. And in the real world, if you break your opponent's arm, knock them unconscious, or kill them, you could be doing some serious jail time for overstepping your bounds if it looks like you could have gotten away instead.

7. Weapons, weapons, weapons. Any true self-defense system worth its salt will tell you, "Get a weapon. You're a human being--use a tool!" There is no honor in going hand-to-hand with an attacker. If someone attacks you, it's probably because they have some advantage. Usually, that's numbers or weapons. Grab something and start using it. And if you get in a knife fight? You will get cut, even if it's accidental. Be ready for it.

Basically, keep these things in mind as you make your decision. Stuff like tae kwon do and most kung fu is great for building balance and body awareness, which is very useful in a fight... but a tae kwon do class isn't going to teach you to fight.

Boxing is probably one of the most useful for getting the basics--footwork and distance, attacking while defending, and how to take a hit--but the obvious problem is all the focus on punching guys in the head (often a big mistake without gloves).

Krav maga, jiu jitsu, and other "grapple/throw" styles are nice to know if you end up on the ground... but, as I mentioned above, they are problematic for when you want to get away after the takedown. Also, they put you in a position where you almost have to break the opponent's joints, or kill them, which is not a good plan most of the time unless you're in Special Forces.

The "hot item" a couple years back was Muay Thai... which isn't just a fighting style. It requires years of conditioning to get the bones of your arms and legs ready (ie, incapable of feeling) to do the things you need. Knee someone in the head without that conditioning, and you'll go down with them.

Even the weirdest arts can be useful, and some of the "best" can be ridiculously impractical. T'ai chi isn't the most practical for fighting, but it is unbeatable for teaching balance and weight transfer (which will improve your ability to respond in a fight). Fencing seems goofy, but it's actually one of the most practical weapon styles taught when you understand the theory behind it.

It's all about being aware of what a class is actually teaching you, and what it's actually preparing you for (or not).

 

[Dastardly]

snip

Another nice overview right there. Good show.

 

[aba1]

I was in judo from around 9-10 until 15 or so...got to a blue belt with a brown stripe, I couldn't get full brown until I was 16, and legally allowed to compete with chokes and armbars. It was a lot of fun though, I miss it quite a bit now, especially the competition, fighting throughout western Canada.

I'm from Canada too n I also do Judo got been doing it for 14 years

 

[Alexi089]

I have little personal experience of boxing, but I know people that do/ have done it, and it'll defintely give you some great striking skills. It's definately one of the most physically demanding sports out there, so you'll need to be ready to commit. In fact your coach may even set training requirements just to be willing to train you, depending on their attitude (i think it's ultimately good if they do though). I dont know if you're aware of the risks, but I think you should consider a few things first:

1) Your'e very likely to get your nose, fingers and/ or knuckles broken sooner or later. Especially if you plan to compete.

2) There's a fair risk of a detached retina, damage to your ears and their drums and even brain damage, so again consider carefully.

3) If your'e looking for self defense, you boxing training could even hunder your. It's very easy to break your hand punching someone in the head full force (just check out the boxing forums). In a real fight, you have so little time to think, you'll revert to your boxing training; and although ideally, you'd be able to think to use your palms to strike the face and your fists to strike the body/ organs, chances are you'll just go all fists.

Krav Maga I have very mixed feelings about (I've tried a few sessions, but didn't feel convinced about the effectiveness of teh training methods where I went). I think they promise far too much (this 'used by the FBI' stuff is over done, I think. I expect most martial artists will agree that making practise as reaslistic as possible is more important than the specific techniques taught). Also, there are some very poor quality krav instructors. I think you'll really need to do some research into your local club to make sure it's not just a money racket. Examples like this down right annoy me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IOrk3zSfqI

This is a very sloppy, lazy variation of O soto gari (found in jiu Jitsu, Aikido, Judo etc); and it's just an appauling demonstration. The only reason it even appears to work is because the uki (guy who falls) isn't resisting at all and tori (the guy throwing) is substantially bigger. He doesn't explain a single step of the body mechanics behind the throw, and he doesn't even appear to know key points like drawing uki out and back, or bringing his own hips past uke's (to name a couple). There's no excuse for such poor quality instruction when people are paying for it. Edit: Actually, his hips are past uke's on the final go, but I'm not sure he made a concious effort to get into that position. Anyway...

Personally, I favour Judo. I'd recomment it whole heartedly because my club spends at least half an hour each session sparring (which you need to really learn how to apply a throw or ground technique; and to learn which one's are easier to transfer to from certain positions etc). Also, to my knowledge all the clubs in the UK are run as non-profit, so you know the instructor teaches it because he loves it, which is really important. Plus 'judo is judo' pretty much everywhere in the world, so if you move there shouldn't be any starting over due to different federations. From a self defense point of view, the only downside is that you'll train your brain to do things that may not be the safest thing to do in reality. E.g. taking grips rather than protecting your face/ increasing distance and following your opponent to the ground if a throw didn't quite work (it's much safer to try to stay up and kick them on the ground) because you're looking for groundwork points.

I'd also recommend Shorinji Kan Jiu Jitsu (taught by The Jitsu Foundation clubs in the UK), but preferably in combination with Judo if you have the time, because there's much less straight up sparring in most of these clubs. Regular sparring and uchi komi sessions brought my throws on in leaps and bounds after I started judo. TJF teach some great self defense tips too, but there's a lot of telegraphed attack practise aswell; so bear that in mind before getting too keen on street fights. I took jitsu for 2 years before going to judo and I'm glad I did it purely for simple blocking and movement tips. Not to sound too judo biased, but I also think judo is overall safer than boxing (of course injuries still happen).

Brazillian jiu jitsu is awesome for ground fighting. They're usually better on the ground than judoka. If you love ground grappling, do it; but if you want to do a grappling sport with some good self defense application I'd recomment judo instead, or better yet, both. Ground fighting on the pavement hurts and it's dangerous (getting eye goughed, fish hooked, kicked by your attackers friends/ passing idiots who want to feel hard).

I had fun doing Taekwondo before my teens too. But I emphasise 'fun'. I got to black belt when I was around 12, but I wouldn't rely on much of it in any realistic situation. Kicking above the waist is dangerous, because it's so easy to knock you off balance with your leg high, and very few people are fast, fit or strong enough to pull off an effective high kick. Also, the sparring was more points orientated rather than knockout orientated.

As far as self defense goes... Frankly, even if I get to black belt in Judo and start winning 90% of my comps, I'll still avoid street fights when I can. Every street fight i've been in/ managed to avoid has been started by people who obviously went out with the intention of starting a fight. And every time, my friends and I have either been substantially outnumbered from the start, or a short time into it. In fact, I've never had a fight picked with me that didn't end in my friends and I being outnumbered 3 to one or more, even if the others guys were bigger. There's a lot of knife carrying in chav culture too, and even though knife defenses can work, a lot of them are very risky and difficult to pull off in reality; even if you're very familiar with them. I'd say leave asap as soon as you see a knife. Also in general, it's easy to get seriously hurt on the pavement. All you need to do is slip in a puddle or some leaves and you can crack your skull open, or at best be in a very comprimised position (lying on the ground). Finally, even if you do execute the perfect Ippon seoi nage for example. Throwing someone like that full force onto concrete could easily paralyse them, or even kill them = probable prison sentence for you. I've also heard that boxers can land themselves in serious trouble if caught street fighting because good knockout punches can be so dangerous. Basically, fights are best avoided, no matter how frustrating it may be.


Finally (sorry for the essay) here are my tips for choosing a martial arts gyms/ clubs:

1) Not- for profit clubs are a very good sign.

2) If the club is held in a fairly run down gym with the bare essentials (but still sturdy equipment), and everyone's sweating and panting, it's probably a good club. As a general rule, the posher the club looks, the worse it's likely to be; as theyr'e probably more in it for profit than anything.

3) Kata/ form focused martial arts like aikido are fantastic for learning body mechanics, good posture (which IS important, despite what some krav maga practitioners appear to think. You need to be able to execute a technique beautifully in ideal, non resiting conditions before you can be confident that you can do it well in a fight/ match). You still need sparring though, so boxing and judo; and too some extent brazillian jiu jitsu, are your friends.

4) If you don't like one one club of a certain style, try another club if possible, rather than assuming you don't like the style.

5) Look for clubs whose coaches/ instructors have competed to a high level. Also look for clubs that encourage you to compete (whithout encouraging bad sportsman ship or excess aggression and competetiveness). These clubs will push you to be your best.

6) I don't know who said this but: 'The best martial art is the one you want to do for the rest of your life'.

7) Any club that frequently refuses you to get a drink of water when you need one/ doesn't give regular water breaks; or tells you to keep going even when you're in real pain/ think you've damaged something is a bad club. In my experience, these instructors have also rarely competed to any significant level (hence, they dont appreciate injuries properly), so you can't be sure how effective their instruction really is.

8) Instructors with children/ who teach in regular school are also a bonus in my experience. They tend to be more patient when you're having difficulty; better at explaining things and more interested in teaching. Fortunately, a lot seem to fit this criteria.

Hope your eyes aren't too tired! lol

 

[mikey7339]

Does marksmanship count or is this purely hand-to-hand?

 

[Toaster Hunter]

I have a 2nd degree black belt in Hapkido. I have been doing it for six years.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Throwing sand,hitting throats, kicking nuts, hitting people with bottles/rocks from behind. The basic "I-dont-now-about-you-but-i-dont-want-to-get-hurt-Fu" Most Martial sports and other fairly ruled arts are practically useless in a real defense situation, you are maybe a little more (or too) confident and know how to take a hit better, the rest probably wont help much

 

[TheMightyWarHamster]

another small tip to find a good self-defense school is looking for one where cops or other law enforcement guys train (or teach). cops are more likely to actually need those skills on the street, so you got a good chance they know what's useful.

 

[aba1]

snip

I recomend listening to this guy he knows what hes talking about. Everything mentioned was very true the only thing I disagreed with was judo teaching you grips which leave you open but even then there is a truth to it as long as you keep the guy really close he cant strike you and you can still toss him easily but to get to the position can leave you pritty open when you attempt to enter.

 

[CATB320]

I wish I could take Krav Maga, but the only place it's taught here is super expensive. I've taken a few years of Judo, more of Tae Kwon Do, and I've been doing escrima these last couple years. I really enjoy the latter (not just because I'm Filipino) because of how casual our class is, and how applicable the techniques are.

EDIT: I also go to the range every now and then and shoot pistols. So, you know. That's helpful, too.

 

[Biodeamon]

I know the secret technique of talking my way out of a fight.

Why use my fists when my brain is stronger?

 

[Suicida1 Midget]

I have one year of Gracie jiu-jitsu, just started judo, throwing knieves for three years, and two months of staffs. Mostly just stick with it, you will lose alot but with time it gets alot better.

 

[sheic99]

My self defense basically amounts to "kick em in the balls and run".
Not the best line of defense to live life through.

I personally really wanna learn kick boxing though. :I
I will watch this thread, as I am quite interested.

That's actually the worst defense plan ever. A person balls will shrink at the first sign of exercise because the blood is needed elsewhere, and adrenaline can go a long way in making that hurt less. Trust me, a kick to the balls is barely noticeable if someone is expecting it. Your best bet would be to find a weapon or run.

What? For some reason I want to test that statement, but if you're lying, that'll suck.

Any links or vids?

Personal experience on the receiving end. It's probably the adrenaline more than anything though.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Self Taught incorporating elements of Krav Maga, Jeet Kun Do, Tae Kwon Do, Yoshukai(An offshoot of Okinawan Karate), and various odds and ends learned from my military father. Also add in profiency with improvised weapons. Seriosuly, I was taught how to use practically nanything as a weapon, including a colander and dish towel.

 

[Alex_zero]

I've been training Wing Tsun for about 4 months now,and let me tell you it's awesome.

 

[. . . sleepy . . .]

I've studied a non-traditional form of Tang-Su-Do for almost 15 years now. Our style incorporates a lot, though, including Muay Thai, Combat Tai Chi, Aikido, Jiu-Jitsu, and Karate.

Whatever you decide to study in the long run, though, just make sure it is from a master that you can respect, and that you stay with it consistently. I would have attained my mastery by now if I hadn't had a rough patch a few years back. But hey, I stuck with it and am moving towards it with each passing day.

Good luck, study hard, and remember: that whole "if it doesn't work in MMA, it doesn't work" shpiel IS A LOAD OF CRAP. Most military forms are absolutely lethal, but as such cannot be adapted to MMA. An Aikido master is terrifying to face in the streets, but has no place in the octagon. Just don't be fooled by morons. MMA is fantastic, really, but it is not the be-all-end-all. Fifteen years of getting punched in the face has at least taught me that much.