What negative assumptions or misconceptions about gaming and gamers really grind your gears?

[Adam Lester]

I dunno, how am I supposed to take anti-gamergaters and SJWs' seriously when they cherry-pick my arguments and the first words that come flying out the mouth in response are attacks/assumptions on someone's skin color and gender followed up by a misogyny accusation?

*reads through Zacharys response*

I don't see attacks, assumptions on someone's skin color or gender and no accusations of misogyny. You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

So it would help to adress the opponents argument. Don't dismiss them by yelling "SJW" (the meaningless bullshit term) and hope people side with you there.

"I have a question. Are you okay with the people who say that Gamergate, who you side with, are angry white misogynistic boys?"


Take into consideration that this all started because I claimed that gaming wasn't under attack and the nay-saying didn't effect my ability to enjoy video games.

 

[DanteRL]

Mine is from a more specific situation, but I guess it counts.

A few months ago I started teaching game design at a school. Pretty cool stuff, and the first semester was exclusively theory (character construction and development, script, GDD, that kind of thing.). So I'm explaining that to a cousin, and my aunt comes and say "Oh, I thought it was something really important, you know? But you have to keep looking, I know you will find something good.".

Because yeah, getting well paid to teach about a subject that is part of my life for years now reaaaally sucks.

I guess this kind of goes with the "Vyidja Games are not serious business".

 

[Fox12]

The assumption that it is a "boy's club". The percentage of female friends I have that regularly play games is around the same as the percentage of my male friends that play games.

You do understand that personal anecdotes are not a strong form of evidence, right?

Why do you come across as aggressive all the time? I'm not even attacking you, but I've noticed that you seem to always jump the gun. What's wrong with sharing personal experiances?

 

[Something Amyss]

Why do you come across as aggressive all the time?

Why do you infer aggression from a question? I think this is a bigger issue.

What's wrong with sharing personal experiances?

I didn't say there was something particularly wrong with it. For someone who just accused me of jumping the gun, maybe you shouldn't...jump the gun? I don't know, I'm not saying you have to practice what you preach, but it might be helpful, especially when you're accusing me of doing that same thing.

I will, however, say this is probably a good chunk of why gamers are viewed the way they are.

 

[Fox12]

Why do you come across as aggressive all the time?

Why do you infer aggression from a question? I think this is a bigger issue.

What's wrong with sharing personal experiances?

I didn't say there was something particularly wrong with it. For someone who just accused me of jumping the gun, maybe you shouldn't...jump the gun? I don't know, I'm not saying you have to practice what you preach, but it might be helpful, especially when you're accusing me of doing that same thing.

I will, however, say this is probably a good chunk of why gamers are viewed the way they are.

I don't know, basic manners come hard to some people, I guess. Maybe it's unintentional, but your comments come across as rather inflammatory. Not singular. Plural.

OT: I don't particularly care about the opinions of others, but I suppose it's sad that games are still looked down upon as a lesser artistic medium by more established art forms. This annoys me with anything, though, not just gaming. So short sitedness, I suppose.

 

[ObserverStatus]

"Gamers like their games to be cinematic."

 

[SapphireMoon]

That we all chug Mt. Dew, wear our hats backwards, and the only games that exist are Halo and CoD. I never quite noticed it until I was in the snack isle and saw Advanced Warfare plastered across every Mt. Dew and Doritos product.

That's not true?

(jk jk)


Hate that girls are always assumed to be attention grabbers when they play games.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The expectation that I'm supposed to "grow up" and give up games in exchange for getting drunk in a bar, for purposes of a sexual encounter I likely won't remember (and the chance at an STD that I likely will).

 

[GrumbleGrump]

Videogames train you how to use firearms.

No. Just. No. There's untold levels of stupidity in that reasoning.

 

[Spider RedNight]

I too grow weary of the "if you're a girl and you game, it's obviously for an ulteriour motive", or something along those lines. Yesss because I'm gonna try to play these games and as soon as I meet my dream boat, I'm gonna stop forever and ever because I don't need to use games as a motive anymore!

Granted, I haven't heard it in awhile (if for no other reason than I don't mention games unless someone asks specifically) but I remember it really bugging me in school.

Also the "you aren't a real gamer if you play kid-friendly or casual games". Not that I really care about the label "gamer" anymore as it's gotten rather overused of late but STILL. Getting all the achievements in Lego Batman 2 was tedious without cheats, man

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't know, basic manners come hard to some people, I guess.

And you have done no different.

Maybe it's unintentional, but your comments come across as rather inflammatory. Not singular. Plural.

I'm not responsible for what you infer.

We can ascertain three things from this:
1. That you are asserting that personal anecdotes are not a strong form of evidence. "personal anecdotes are not a strong form of evidence..."
2. That you believe for the OP to think otherwise would require a lack of understanding. "You do understand that..."
3. That you are looking for the OP to confirm these points. "right?"

2 and 3 boil down to common terms of speech. You can't ascertain it any more than you can ascertain someone thinks they're in a courtroom because they say "I rest my case."

The third is a rhetorical statement.

Again, you're making assumptions, not ascertaining.

By framing what you said as a question you did not remove the aggression.

Nor does insisting there was aggression make it true. You can insist it as many times as you want. You can attempt to dictate my tone on the internet, or tell me what I meant, and you're wrong. Simple as.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm sorry, all I heard was ad-homenim-ad-homenim-ad-homenim-shame-shame-shame-attemptstoguiltmeintosidingwithyou-generalize.

Which is exactly what you did. And makes my point.

 

[Something Amyss]

Cool. That's a valid complaint and I welcome it. What would you have preferred me to say?

And "personal anecdote is not strong evidence" was a valid statement. Especially as a question.

I mean, you're free to get upset by something that in your experience isn't true. The problem is, just about everyone else is doing the same. In fact, this is where the "no girls in gaming/on the internet/in geekdom" comes from. This, I believe, is the root of many of those things that apparently grind your gears. And, if I might, also where the "fake geek/gamer girl" mentality comes from. And the notion that "if there are so many girls in gaming, why don't I see any?" is floated incredibly often.

A recurring theme in talking to you is this attempt to make you aware that the positions you are taking, if applied evenly, are in the end self destructive because unless you wish to opt for special pleading (the "it's different for X" deal), then you're validating exactly how others feel, too. And that helps...who exactly?

Well, if the perceived lack of girls in gaming bothers you, then the answer is "not you."

 

[Dizchu]

And "personal anecdote is not strong evidence" was a valid statement. Especially as a question.

Of course it is, I'm just curious to know why a discussion topic that specifically relates to personal anecdotes is a place where "strong evidence" is needed.

I mean, you're free to get upset by something that in your experience isn't true. The problem is, just about everyone else is doing the same.

Yes... but I'm not sure how damaging suggesting that women are more welcome in the games industry than they are commonly portrayed to be actually is. Homophobia exists but people supportive of gays and encourage their active participation in society also exist. I'd like to focus on the latter rather than the former. Some people within "gaming culture" are socially repressed and have misconceptions and mistrusts in relation to women, others are absolutely fine with interacting with them.

In fact, this is where the "no girls in gaming/on the internet/in geekdom" comes from.

It's not helped with women facing further discouragement for enjoying their hobby by people exaggerating a few things trolls and the "socially repressed" males I described above say to describe an "inherent trait" of gaming culture.

I love black metal. Black metal has a history of having associations with Neo-Nazism. That doesn't make the genre and its fanbase as a whole fascistic.

This, I believe, is the root of many of those things that apparently grind your gears. And, if I might, also where the "fake geek/gamer girl" mentality comes from. And the notion that "if there are so many girls in gaming, why don't I see any?" is floated incredibly often.

As I see it, being a "gamer" isn't like being part of a club. There's no criteria other than "I am enthusiastic about video games". The "fake geek/gamer girl" meme has become less common lately (thank god) though I'll agree that it persists. I personally think this is a problem with many groups. Feminism has the "not a real feminist" cliché for example. People that are too prideful of their "identity" have unrealistic expectations for people's "authenticity".

A recurring theme in talking to you is this attempt to make you aware that the positions you are taking, if applied evenly, are in the end self destructive because unless you wish to opt for special pleading (the "it's different for X" deal), then you're validating exactly how others feel, too. And that helps...who exactly?

My positions on gender discussions in particular mostly revolve around avoiding exaggerations and generalisations. That's why I believe unsubstantiated broad statements can be EXTREMELY damaging. They also encourage a dichotomic approach to gender (women are oppressed, men are privileged, etc.) which I feel goes absolutely nowhere apart from down the path of regression.

Calling gaming a "boy's club" implies that there are universal attributes to "masculine interests" (there are not) and that women can't share the same interests (if Bayonetta was geared so much towards "male gaze" how come so many women love her?) It also implies an exclusionary behaviour towards women that I have not seen outside of children on Xbox Live and trolls on 4chan.

It is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[TWRule]

It mostly annoys me that people use the word "gamer" as if it had any meaning whatsoever. Unless you're admitting to being something less than a full-fledged human being - a sort of being whose existence revolves disproportionately and pathologically around the act of playing games, you have no reason to self-identify as a "gamer". It is not a constitutive part of your being.

It is equally annoying when the term is used to make generalizations about a nebulous group of people, and that people think they have to "defend the reputation of gamers". There is nothing about playing games as such that substantively ties up one's identity to those of some collective.

 

[Dizchu]

Sarkeesian blaming patriarchy for school shootings is pretty much fair enough

That sounds like Alex Jones-level conspiracy theorism to me. 9/11 was perpetrated by men. Men from a culture that is extremely oppressive to women. Therefore 9/11 was caused by patriarchy.

No.

when you consider how someone threatened to shoot up a school she was scheduled to give a speech at because they didn't like feminism.

How is this a symptom of patriarchy? This only works if you consider feminism to be completely in opposition to patriarchy (when in fact a depressing amount of feminists use patriarchal double-standards as the basis of their arguments).

Hell, one of the main attributes of patriarchy is the PROTECTION of women. "Women and children first", not "let's shoot up a school that a feminist is speaking at".

This is all assuming that the gunman would have carried out the attack and there is no evidence to claim that the threat was anything more than an idiot talking shit to intimidate someone and make the news.

Are there problems with masculine identity that can result in things like suicide, school shootings, terrorism, etc.? Yes.

Is it appropriate to bring this up when the bodies of innocent people are still warm? To promote your brand of feminism and plug a book? Absolutely not.

Particularly given how those accusations turned out to be a load of bullshit.

Which accusations? Many were bullshit but the ones that Eron Gjoni outlined in his expose were not. To me the Zoe Quinn fiasco isn't about ethics in journalism, it's about abuse. That's why I take it seriously. I don't care about her game or about the journalists she slept with. She's awful for other, more serious reasons.

Gamergate demanded the media violate ethical standards by publicising the words of a jilted ex-boyfriend as gospel,

The benefit of the doubt should be given to abuse victims. That's why we should not ask rape victims what they were wearing.

For once games journalism was actually ethical, and that was precisely what you objected to.

Just like when CNN covered the Steubenville rape incident in a way that was sympathetic to the rapist?