What place does melee really have in shooters?

[GamingAwesome1]

*twitch* Must.....resist.....compulsion....to correct...GRAMMAR!

I still think TF2 is a shining example of melee weapons done right. In that game, melee weapons are either a last resort or have some sort of secondary function.

 

[Mataocho]

I think the best melee system was Killzone 2 and Killzone 3(maybe). You have your standard rifle butting that you could use to beat someone to death if both of your magazines empty or he gets too close for comfort, which was pretty balanced because point blank and obviously longer a shotgun would beat melee.

However, I liked the knife from single player because you had to equip it and it was usually a one hit kill which was great if your magazine emptied and you're being rushed at close quarters or more importantly if you flanked an enemy and you wanted to be efficient and quiet. Personally I wish it could be used as equipment for the saboteur class or recon class except it would take longer to draw to prevent instant knifing (it takes about a second or more to ready and then you automatically slash)

Though this could change radically with the "brutal" melee system Killzone 3, where supposedly not only can you react with the environment to kill but block attacks and continue fighting. I hope this could open up a scaled down fight sim where you could divert an enemies weapon and start beating him down if he struck you. Perhaps a little like a boxing simulator with blocking and striking. This would be an ideal fighting system I think due to not rendering shotguns useless, not being instant, and I assume a hefty amount of skill to succesfully beat down your enemie in close quarters.

 

[RadiusXd]

i agree that lunge like they have in MW2 is a horrid idea, but the first Modern Warfare had it down pretty well, with a good balance it made knife kills so satisfying.
Shotguns however, were not originally made for killing people. Shotguns were made for hunting, with birds being the main focus of the design. you could kill multiple birds in a flock in a single blast, this is because the SHOT that you put in your SHOTgun spreads out, hence the name.

however, rednecks decided they liked shotguns for everything because it required you only to point in the general vicinity of what you wanted to kill. Thus requiring no skill, which rednecks are severely lacking due to generations of inbreeding reducing the functionality of their thumbs.
So we have established that shotguns are tools for people who have issues properly aiming, sort of like sticky keys for video games. there is little to no purpose to ever use a shotgun in combat nowadays, be it real life or a video game.
an Uzi is just as deadly and doesn't have a pathetically slow rate of fire, nor does it take a unacceptable amount of time to recharge.
i suppose that shotguns could one day become feasible in first person shooters if multi player has incredibly realistic destructible environments (blast a hole through a wall then through an opponents head), but point being a knife just makes sense. it weighs little, takes little space, requires no ammo, doesn't let everybody in the whole damn war zone know where you are, doesn't jam or get waterlogged and you can get it out at the drop of a berka...

Besides, knife kills are so fun.

 

[Engarde]

There are plenty of games in which melee works. You seem to be have this based on the COD franchise.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

I like the way Halo did melee. When I say that I do not mean the sword or the hammer. That shit is stupid.

Sneak up behind someone and bash your gun into their neck, breaking it. One hit kill. Acceptable.

Smack them with your gun barrel from the front, decent damage but not a one hit kill. Acceptable.

Also if a knife or whatever is a separate weapon that you slowly have to equip, making it useful only when ambushing someone, that is also acceptable.

But yeah I'm fairly certain running around with marathon, lightweight, and commando, with a revolver and a knife, is fucking stupid even by the fantasy world that is MW2.

Agreed, except I'm the kind of weird terrifying smelly creature who thinks the grav. hammer and the energy sword are barrels of fun.

 

[TelHybrid]

I think we can just end this thread now by basically saying MW2 did everything wrong. That sums it all up./thread

 

[MattRooney06]

see i thaught the knife in MW1 was good, a quick way to "reward" your ability to get close to an enemy or take controll of a situation faster

In MW2 the perks make it kinda ridiculouse but hey whatever

 

[RadiusXd]

I think melee should go back to being the butt of the gun. And only be used to weaken or knock your opponent off their balance.

How the hell is someone going to be able to reach their knife>unbuckle it from it's holster>spin it around in their hands to face downwards>lunge at the guy 3 meters away> aim correctly to land a perfect stab in-between body armour, all in .5 seconds?

You should have to equip the knife before using it. Otherwise the melee should be the butt of the gun. And not be a one hit kill.

The melle in Halo was decent. A bit of an improvement on that should be good.

imagine a knife holster on the right side of your abdomen, just before your hips, and with the opening facing in a upwards forwards diagonal direction.
now imagine a knife in that holster, when you prepared for battle (undid the safety on your rifle etc) say you undid the clip and now a magnet is in the holster just powerful enough to keep your knife from bouncing out.
try to reach for this pretend knife (with your right hand) , its already facing the right way and there are no clips to undo.

And about the armor bit, who says the entire military wears body armor, or that you can't stab them neck or face, or that you can't stab right through their armor, its not like your fighting batman.

Edit: and just how do you pistol whip someone 3 meters away, i agree lunging is stupid.

 

[RadiusXd]

Well MW2 melee system was retarded with its commando perk or whatever its called but other games its not bad.
Mabye the insta knife kill could be removed and replaced with a hit from your current weapon which knocks back the enemy and have the knife as a separate weapon all together.

so the knife would take up a weapon slot?

 

[Balgus]

"mind body and kick ass moves" covered this already, there are a group of Philippine commando who raid entire houses with combat knives covering distances of up to 10 meters and delivering a fatal stab before one can upholster and aim their pistol.

 

[Life_Is_A_Mess]

whats more fun than knifing people in the back in mw2???

I know. It's even more fun knifing people in the back in Bad Company 2 and WINNING THEIR DOG TAGS!

OT: I agree with the use (not overuse!) of melee in some games. If you think about it, you'll find that there is some reason to it.
Imagine you're in CoD4, walking around killing people with your AK-47.. But then, out of nowhere comes a maniac with an overpowered sub-machinegun spraying at you. He's right next to you.

What do you do?

You stab him or put some shotgun rounds through his head, of course, because HE wouldn't wait for you to load your AK-47, aim and fire at him.

I know it's sometimes anoying, but it's how people's minds would react in real-life warfare.

If you REALLY want a game that doesn't take BS from melee, try Battlefield: Bad Company 2.
Melee exists, but it's the second hardest ground of weapons to use, being the first, sniper rifles (bullet drop is very hard to master).

 

[DSK-]

Melee has it's purposes. It's typically the most quiet way to down an enemy if a situation is favourable for it's usage. Being able to be stealthy in this was offers a massive advantage.

Sure the knifing in MW2 can get old. but it's basically down to the mechanics of the game. There is nothing that can be done about it.

 

[RadiusXd]

Well MW2 melee system was retarded with its commando perk or whatever its called but other games its not bad.
Mabye the insta knife kill could be removed and replaced with a hit from your current weapon which knocks back the enemy and have the knife as a separate weapon all together.

so the knife would take up a weapon slot?

Well add another separate slot just for the knife.
That way you have to swap to the knife rather than press a button and instantly lash out with it, either that or a delayed time between pressing the melee button and you actually attacking.

but isn't the whole purpose of the knife that you don't have time to reload or switch to pistol?

 

[Hunter.Wolf]

Totally disagree with the OP, Melee does have its place in shooters, is needed in many situations and spices up the combat.

Many games did melee very well, my favorites are Halo, Battlefield:Bad Company 2, Thief (not really a shooter but i think it counts being an FPS), and of course Mirror's Edge (also not really a shooter but still is an FPS), then Killzone and Gears of Wars as well.

My top fav is Halo, cause instead of typically having a dedicated melee weapon (like in most previous shooter games) it was one of the first games to employ a melee button that works for all weapons and it was an excellent idea IMO, and it works in many situations.

-When you run out of ammo
-When reloading
-When going stealthy
-When an enemy gets too close

And what was great about it is that it wasn't a one-hit-kill in Halo .. try attacking an Elite with a melee attack and it will try to hit you back .. only weak enemies like grunts were killed by one hit (and it made a lot of sense)

As for Melee being overpowered .. i think not, you have to move in the open and get too close to your enemies in order to use melee, it makes you vulnerable for ranged attacks from multiple enemies and the enemy you are attacking can get point blank shots at you that will probably never miss (if he gets the chance that is).

Melee in most shooter games is fine as it is now.

 

[Zannah]

I can't comment on Gow or Transformers. However, name ONE situation in MW 1/2, where someone who get's close enough to make use of his knife, and has the time for the animation to finish, could not have just fried your ass with a shotgun or capped you in your head three times?
If you get knifed, it's due to one of these reasons:

a) You didn't see the attacker coming (he could have just shot you)
b) You saw the attacker running up to you, but missed him (he could have shot you)
c) You missed the opportunity to duck under the knife, and in return melee him, since it has a cooldown.
d) The attacker lay in hiding somewhere, waiting for victims. You failed to notice him. (He could have shot you, or placed a clay)
e) You failed to end a firefight quickly, but let him close in / did it yourself, and failed to use your own knife.

Know what all these situations have in common? In none of them, you died due to balance issues. The main reason, besides being a close combat option, if ammo runs short, for the developers to include the knives, is well phrased: [...] to use your knife, for a fast and humiliating kill. And indeed, it sucks, if your armed to the teeth, and someone proves, he doesn't even need ammo to dispose of you. That however, is NOT the games fault.


Now before you start hating on me:
I am by no means perfect at cod, I still loose to my boyfriend all the time, and there's days, where I have a hard time maintaining a 1:1 K:d ratio. BUT: Dying is part of a online shooter experience. Get better and you'll die less, but even the best die eventually. If you can't handle that, there's always singleplayer with cheats turned on.
(Also, please forgive me for sounding a little agressive, I'm just sick of people making excuses)