What place does melee really have in shooters?

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Bobzer77

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Whats more annoying is when you have to dance around your enemy for 5 minutes emptying magazines into your surroundings because the game doesn't have melee.
 

Hiphophippo

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Double A said:
Hiphophippo said:
Double A said:
I think you fail to realize that MW2 is an unbalanced as a ball of shit. In fact, it is a ball of shit.

Hiphophippo said:
Team Fortress 2 does this right.

Team Fortress 2 does everything right.
I find your lack of correct grammar disturbing.
I think you just lost me.
Valve still updates TF2. :\

Also, you needed to replace "right" with "perfectly."
Perfectly is a little presumptuous don't you think? More like "super perfect, aka Ultra KEEN."
 

RadiusXd

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dathwampeer said:
RadiusXd said:
dathwampeer said:
I think melee should go back to being the butt of the gun. And only be used to weaken or knock your opponent off their balance.

How the hell is someone going to be able to reach their knife>unbuckle it from it's holster>spin it around in their hands to face downwards>lunge at the guy 3 meters away> aim correctly to land a perfect stab in-between body armour, all in .5 seconds?

You should have to equip the knife before using it. Otherwise the melee should be the butt of the gun. And not be a one hit kill.

The melle in Halo was decent. A bit of an improvement on that should be good.
imagine a knife holster on the right side of your abdomen, just before your hips, and with the opening facing in a upwards forwards diagonal direction.
now imagine a knife in that holster, when you prepared for battle (undid the safety on your rifle etc) say you undid the clip and now a magnet is in the holster just powerful enough to keep your knife from bouncing out.
try to reach for this pretend knife (with your right hand) , its already facing the right way and there are no clips to undo.

And about the armor bit, who says the entire military wears body armor, or that you can't stab them neck or face, or that you can't stab right through their armor, its not like your fighting batman.

Edit: and just how do you pistol whip someone 3 meters away, i agree lunging is stupid.
O RLY?

Well common logic and the character models would suggest that the knife holster is actually on your left shoulder facing downwards. Meaning it would need to be buckled. making your entire post moot.

The location of the knife changes according to the military force you're playing as and the get up and loadout of the character. At the very least a knife should not be a melee option for a heavy gunner or normal infantry. Maybe for someone carrying a sub machine gun or possibly a sniper.

Can you imagine trying to reach for a knife whilst holding a 40lb LMG in your other hand? Smashing someone with it would probably be more effective anyway.

In a cqc situation you would either just carry on shooting at close range or hit them with your gun. The only reason you would use a knife is if you were trying to take someone out quietly. Which would suggest you would have pulled the knife out before hand.
one picture doesn't mean that its the standard worldwide, nor are "character models" necessarily accurate. Do you see character models running around with a bulky RPG on their back?
also, <youtube=_k_lEex1hp0>
now seeing as that is with an old man wearing a suit, i would say a .5 second draw is feasible wouldn't you?

PS. note how it attaches to the belt, so you can configure it to anywhere on the belt.

EDIT:eek:h, and realistically you dont carry around LMG's like that anyways.
 

Spygon

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the old running around the corner and knifing someone before they knife you or spray you with bullets is a use of reactions that is pretty much a large part of any shooter.As the 3 ways to win in a one on one is normally
1.react quicker
2.be more acurrate
3.Not let the enemy know where you are until its too late.

There is nothing wrong with melee weapons if you have a gun and you cant stop someone on a regular basis get close enough to stab you then you would die proberly quicker if they shot you as you can not seem to take down targets quick enough.
 

RadiusXd

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point being that in most games if you find yourself dying by the knife an awful lot, it just means that jack the ripper is the rock to your scissors.

EDIT: with commando perk on MW2 being the exception of course, that's like jack the ripper being able to teleport small distances.
no street walkers are safe now!
 

Banana Phone Man

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May 19, 2009
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snowman6251 said:
My favorite thing about MW2 is that lightly tossing a knife into someone's foot is significantly more lethal than taking a bullet from a Barret 50. cal to the chest.
I agree, I took out a helecopter with my throwing knife, that is not a joke, it happened.
 

RadiusXd

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Banana Phone Man said:
snowman6251 said:
My favorite thing about MW2 is that lightly tossing a knife into someone's foot is significantly more lethal than taking a bullet from a Barret 50. cal to the chest.
I agree, I took out a helecopter with my throwing knife, that is not a joke, it happened.
I think at this point we all realize what an imbalanced pile of hyped up disappointment MW2 has shaped up to be. but lets get past that, it's like saying that NFS Undercover sucked so all racing games have a fatal flaw.

EDIT: but that sounds epic nonetheless.....
I wonder if i could knife down that hind from MW1, if only i could get up there.........
 

ProfessorLayton

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Nov 6, 2008
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pejhmon said:
I think you will find that it is two right clicks, left clicks do something like 11 damage.
Nice catch... I was telling myself not to say "left click" and I even looked at my mouse and right clicked to remind myself what it felt like and I still typed it...
 

Steel Ronin

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xRagnarok19 said:
So a knife to the throat/heart/head shouldn't kill someone? Well I guess it goes with the idea of taking multiple bullets to the torso and being completely fine by hiding for five seconds.
Aw dude you pwnt him right there.Although melee isn't that "powerful" in CS but i totally agree with your post.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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Sup I said:
Hope you agree with me on how melee should work in the future.
I think melee is fine. People just move too fast in games (MW2), and the maps are too small (MW2), so you encounter melee ranges far too often.

It must be said though that just because guns are powerful, melee is not useless, even in real war. If you get close enough to someone for them to grab the rifle of your gun, your gun is now a club. I mean military vests are even designed to allow for quick drawing of the knife, so even the real world armies recognise the deadliness of a blade at melee range.

I think they should simply make melee more heavily affected by aim. If you hit them in the head, they die, simples. If you hit them in certain areas of the body, they die. Make it so that if you aim at the arms or legs, they don't.

Personally I think melee has been fine in all the games I've played, including MW2. I mean come on. It takes about 5 shots with any gun to kill someone in that game. It's really, really not hard to do. If they keep managing to get you from the front, then it's entirely your fault. If they manage to get you without you realising, it's them being skilful enough to avoid being blown to crap before they can close.

But hey. I love knives in games. I've got a platinum star on knife in BC2, and ran with a knife class in MW2. One of the problems with MW2 is that you die very easily, move very fast, and do tonnes of damage. There's very little margin for error, and this frustrates people. Couple that with the slow turning speed of a gamepad, the limited FOV of an FPS, and the quietness of movement, and you're going to have a lot of pissed off people. Really, that game should be played like a stealth game for the best results, but no-one does that. Unless they want to be called a camping/sniper newb.

dathwampeer said:
Read shit properly before making assumptions.
Don't be so obtuse.

You were not being sarcastic. If you were, you wouldn't be getting so worked up over his response, no?

He's right, you don't run-and-gun with LMGs like that in real life. You need to stop to be able to shoot them with any degree of effectiveness. You are correct. A bulky, heavy LMG is not good for ranges like that. You think it's easy to club someone with a gun like that? That shit is heavy and swinging it would likely put *you* off balance.

It's much more likely that it's entirely up to the soldier's discretion at that sort of range. There are so many variables involved. Who's to say you carry on holding the LMG? Perhaps you drop it or throw it at the guy and then punch him/ reach for the knife. You use a knife to kill someone at close range. You use a gun to kill someone at any range, preferably not melee range, because guns are unwieldy melee weapons.

If fighting without a knife at that range is so uncommon, why are they trained for it? It clearly happens very often, with fists, knives, and clubs. They are taught to use all and are equipped with all. This would suggest that all are used. A knife at that range is just as useful as a gun. If anything it's better because your blows are more deadly and your movement is faster. That is why they keep on using them. Knives in melee is still a realistic prospect, even if you both have guns.
 

RadiusXd

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dathwampeer said:
RadiusXd said:
dathwampeer said:
O RLY?

Well common logic and the character models would suggest that the knife holster is actually on your left shoulder facing downwards. Meaning it would need to be buckled. making your entire post moot.

The location of the knife changes according to the military force you're playing as and the get up and loadout of the character. At the very least a knife should not be a melee option for a heavy gunner or normal infantry. Maybe for someone carrying a sub machine gun or possibly a sniper.

Can you imagine trying to reach for a knife whilst holding a 40lb LMG in your other hand? Smashing someone with it would probably be more effective anyway.

In a cqc situation you would either just carry on shooting at close range or hit them with your gun. The only reason you would use a knife is if you were trying to take someone out quietly. Which would suggest you would have pulled the knife out before hand.

one picture doesn't mean that its the standard worldwide, nor are "character models" necessarily accurate. Do you see character models running around with a bulky RPG on their back?
also, <youtube=_k_lEex1hp0>
now seeing as that is with an old man wearing a suit, i would say a .5 second draw is feasible wouldn't you?

PS. note how it attaches to the belt, so you can configure it to anywhere on the belt.

EDIT:eek:h, and realistically you dont carry around LMG's like that anyways.


The 'O RLY?' part of the post should probably have given away that I was being sarcastic. And you were supposed to pay attention to the rest of my comment. Which your last post didn't really counter. I even said
The location of the knife changes according to the military force you're playing as and the get up and loadout of the character.
My point (that I will re-iterate) is that if you are carrying a bulky, heavy gun. You are not going to hold it in one hand whilst your other hand reaches for and unbuckles your knife to stab your enemy. Especially when you could just smack them with the butt of said heavy gun and shoot them when they're off balance. It makes no sense and isn't military practice. The only time you use your knife is when you are stealthily trying to take people out. Which would suggest to any logical person that you would equip it.

In a heat of the moment do or die CQC situation you would just shoot at close range or bash with the gun. Not reach for a knife.

?EDIT:eek:h, and realistically you dont carry around LMG's like that anyways.?

since when? Steyr AUG is Australia's default military rifle. Even though it's technically classed an assault rifle it's weight is comparable to something like an MG4 or a Bren.

WIKI
A light machine gun or LMG is a machine gun designed to be employed by an individual soldier, with or without an assistant, and as a front-line infantry support. LMGs are often used as squad automatic weapons.
Meaning you would carry one around. You're thinking of a HMG.

Read shit properly before making assumptions.

sorry, i figured if smg was small machine gun, then lmg would be large machine gun.
is that so crazy?
as for your being sarcastic, I thought that "O RLY?" was you being retarded and obnoxious, and I apologise.

But, if you will read that quote you just posted, although it says it can be employed by an individual, so can a mini-gun, that doesn't mean that you can hold it and fire standing up like a terminator!
Infantry support it says, infantry support, not infantry! a solder with a carbine and two grenades can be considered infantry, a lone tank can be considered infantry support, that doesn't make it infantry.
you have to set up LMG's on a tripod because of their weight and recoil!
and if i ran out of bullets and/or saw a guy coming up behind me i would prefer to drop the gun and use my knife rather than try and turn around or swing with that slow easily avoidable great mass attached to me.
wouldn't you?

PS. and that video i gave you shows you don't HAVE to buckle your knife up, thus rendering your "what about the time it takes to pull a taaaaaab?!" argument moot.
and BTW there are multiple acceptable ways to hold a combat knife, and the MW slash stance is just one.
 

RadiusXd

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dathwampeer said:
RadiusXd said:
sorry, i figured if smg was small machine gun, then lmg would be large machine gun.
is that so crazy?
as for your being sarcastic, I thought that "O RLY?" was you being retarded and obnoxious, and I apologise.

But, if you will read that quote you just posted, although it says it can be employed by an individual, so can a mini-gun, that doesn't mean that you can hold it and fire standing up like a terminator!
Infantry support it says, infantry support, not infantry! a solder with a carbine and two grenades can be considered infantry, a lone tank can be considered infantry support, that doesn't make it infantry.
you have to set up LMG's on a tripod because of their weight and recoil!
and if i ran out of bullets and/or saw a guy coming up behind me i would prefer to drop the gun and use my knife rather than try and turn around or swing with that slow easily avoidable great mass attached to me.
wouldn't you?

PS. and that video i gave you shows you don't HAVE to buckle your knife up, thus rendering your "what about the time it takes to pull a taaaaaab?!" argument moot.
and BTW there are multiple acceptable ways to hold a combat knife, and the MW slash stance is just one.
Before we continue we need to clear shit up.
SMG is sub machine gun. A short barrelled fully auto weapon that usually fires 9mm rounds. It's usually the weapon of preference for special forces because it's light and can accurately be fire from the hip.

An LMG is a light machine gun. A smaller version of a HMG, Heavy machine gun. LMG's are used as infantry support because they are good for suppressive fire in that you can keep an enemy hidden behind cover for long periods of time without having to re-load. Not because they're too heavy for one person to carry. They aren't that much heavier than some assault rifles and can sometimes just be assault rifle frames with enhanced clip capacity. Like the AUG. And you can set them up on tripods. You don't have to. They can be fired just like assault rifles.

And no. I was just being flippant.

OT: I don't think most military units use that speed holster. They use normal holsters and knives are not the go-to form of CQC defence they'll teach. They have them for a multitude of reasons and none of them are for quickly pulling it out stabbing someone and putting it back in.

You can argue this till you're blue in the face it doesn't change anything. No one is going to reach for their knife that's tucked away in a holster, in a spur of the moment (oh shit enemy 2 feet away) situation. They will just hit them off balance with their weapon and shoot them. If not just simply shoot them initially.

I can't stress this enough. [HEADING=1]IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN[/HEADING].

If someone is going to use their knife they are going to pull it out beforehand. Which is what I'm arguing should be done.
I have a peaceful compromise for our situation.....

Bayonettes!
 

pirate64

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dathwampeer said:
You can argue this till you're blue in the face it doesn't change anything. No one is going to reach for their knife that's tucked away in a holster, in a spur of the moment (oh shit enemy 2 feet away) situation. They will just hit them off balance with their weapon and shoot them. If not just simply shoot them initially.

I can't stress this enough. [HEADING=1]IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN[/HEADING].

If someone is going to use their knife they are going to pull it out beforehand. Which is what I'm arguing should be done.
I fully agree with you. The only time you would use a knife IRL would be if you were sneaking up on an enemy and you would pull it out before you right next to them in case they turned around and you had to ether dive at them or, if you were close enough, throw it at them (which wouldn't be very smart as if you missed or hit them in a non-lethal area they can still aim and shoot and you have no weapon)
 

stygN

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Well I'm no vet of MW2, only played it for perhaps 20 hours.. I've almost never been knifed because I've played Counter-Strike since 1.3.. IE, I have some clue about what I'm doing even though it's a different game.

I don't find the knife to be a problem at all.. It's worse with the riot shield.. I cant believe why you didn't mention that one?

When you see a guy coming at you with the knife, just sprint back and hip-spray at him. It usually worked for me and I'm a rookie at the game..

Of course, if someone comes from the back you're screwed, but that's your fault.. You'd been screwed no matter what weapon the guy had.

I'd say keep the knife, but loose the shield.. The knife might be powerful, but I mean.. It's not like everyone run around and use only their knife because it's the best weapon..?

And perhaps the knife should be more like the knife in CS. Hit them from behind = one hit kill, hit them from the front or side = take most of their HP, hit them in the head = one hit hill.
 

PauL o_O

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It's for games that pretty much want to ditch most of realism, and keep gameplay fast paced. They don't want an awkward stare down when two characters are reloading 2 feet away from eachother. The "beat down" solves this in a fast paced manner.
 

Delusibeta

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dathwampeer said:
RadiusXd said:
sorry, i figured if smg was small machine gun, then lmg would be large machine gun.
is that so crazy?
as for your being sarcastic, I thought that "O RLY?" was you being retarded and obnoxious, and I apologise.

But, if you will read that quote you just posted, although it says it can be employed by an individual, so can a mini-gun, that doesn't mean that you can hold it and fire standing up like a terminator!
Infantry support it says, infantry support, not infantry! a solder with a carbine and two grenades can be considered infantry, a lone tank can be considered infantry support, that doesn't make it infantry.
you have to set up LMG's on a tripod because of their weight and recoil!
and if i ran out of bullets and/or saw a guy coming up behind me i would prefer to drop the gun and use my knife rather than try and turn around or swing with that slow easily avoidable great mass attached to me.
wouldn't you?

PS. and that video i gave you shows you don't HAVE to buckle your knife up, thus rendering your "what about the time it takes to pull a taaaaaab?!" argument moot.
and BTW there are multiple acceptable ways to hold a combat knife, and the MW slash stance is just one.
Before we continue we need to clear shit up.
SMG is sub machine gun. A short barrelled fully auto weapon that usually fires 9mm rounds. It's usually the weapon of preference for special forces because it's light and can accurately be fire from the hip.

An LMG is a light machine gun. A smaller version of a HMG, Heavy machine gun. LMG's are used as infantry support because they are good for suppressive fire in that you can keep an enemy hidden behind cover for long periods of time without having to re-load. Not because they're too heavy for one person to carry. They aren't that much heavier than some assault rifles and can sometimes just be assault rifle frames with enhanced clip capacity. Like the AUG. And you can set them up on tripods. You don't have to. They can be fired just like assault rifles.
For anyone who's still confused, here are some TF2 pictures in spoiler boxes.
[footnote]Yes, I realise that's a sentry, not a heavy machine gun. But add the Wrangler [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Wrangler], and you get something that's very like a heavy machine gun[/footnote]

On topic: I think melee is mainly for stealthy characters [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Spy], especially if you have instakills if (for example) you stab them in the back, and zombie type games (e.g. Left 4 Dead, Dead Rising etc) where the enemies are, frankly, dumb. Running at someone who's shooting at you with only a melee weapon in your hand will not end well.