What separates the hardcore and casual crowd
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What separates Hardcore and causal gamers is time and effort put into videogames. That's it. Otherwise, you're just arguing over aesthetics. Many so called "hardcore" games (like call of duty) aren't "hardcore" because they require great amounts of investment; they're "hardcore" because they fit an aesthetic that their target audience think is "mature".
I don't really understand the thesis of the argument. It seems to suggest every gamer who labels themselves as a "hardcore gamer" hates casuals and "casual games", which is absolutely fallicious.
It also assume everyone subscribes to OP's personal description of what a "hardcore" gamer is and what a hardcore "game" is. You can, IMO, be "hardcore" about a casual game. I've seen the math on the probability of landing on each square in monopoly and the cost to benefit ratio of owning that square. That's a pretty hardcore analysis of a casual game.
I think the "issue" is that what I would personally deem a "hardcore" game is essentially not made any more. I'm talking tower of elemental evil, icewind dale, x-com, space trading/exploration/management games; games that are very deep, very complicated and very rewarding of learning and understanding the games mechanics. In the words of the op in this thread:
I do, however, agree gaming should be for everyone. It's a fantastic, lucrative, magical and flexible medium that shouldn't exclude people.
It also assume everyone subscribes to OP's personal description of what a "hardcore" gamer is and what a hardcore "game" is. You can, IMO, be "hardcore" about a casual game. I've seen the math on the probability of landing on each square in monopoly and the cost to benefit ratio of owning that square. That's a pretty hardcore analysis of a casual game.
I think the "issue" is that what I would personally deem a "hardcore" game is essentially not made any more. I'm talking tower of elemental evil, icewind dale, x-com, space trading/exploration/management games; games that are very deep, very complicated and very rewarding of learning and understanding the games mechanics. In the words of the op in this thread:
Well, my preferences have already been disregarded and thrown into obscurity. There is maybe a game like the above released every two or three years, but we get a modern war FPS (which I absolutely deem casual) once a month.Racecarlock said:
I do, however, agree gaming should be for everyone. It's a fantastic, lucrative, magical and flexible medium that shouldn't exclude people.
Seems like the problem is everyone has a different definition of hardcore and casual.
I always thought a 'hardcore' gamer was someone who scheduled parts of their life around a game where as a 'casual' would prioritize real life over games. Didn't think it had anything to do with skill, time played, or attitude.
I always thought a 'hardcore' gamer was someone who scheduled parts of their life around a game where as a 'casual' would prioritize real life over games. Didn't think it had anything to do with skill, time played, or attitude.
I think the problem here is basically the homogenization of genres. When publishers feel the need to make everything more like the most popular titles.Yosharian said:
They don't realize that attempting to convert a franchise into something more Call of Duty-like isn't going attract the Call of Duty players for the simple reason that it's still not Call of Duty.
What they tend to end up with is disappointed fans... and new players who quit playing halfway through and won't have any interest in the sequels. (According to BioWare's own statistics, as an example, 50% of ME2 players hadn't finished the game 11 months after release.)
So, some (Read again: SOME) hardcore gamers don't like casual gamers because they end up getting less niche games? What about the witcher 2? What about torchlight? What about kingdoms of amalur? I think there are also plenty of new RTS titles out there for people who still enjoy those. Ok, so it's bad when a developer or publishers sort of mitigate their games to appeal to bigger crowds. But, that's not the casual gamer's fault, is it? If you want more niche games, don't tell the casual gamers, tell the developers and the publishers. Don't sit there and insult the casual gamers (again, not all of you do that and I have to put in disclaimers like this) because they don't play as long or as hard as you do. That's not going to help anything.
i hate hardcore gamers. even though i've been a big collector and player since i was born, i still never associated myself with hardcore gamers. however i don't associate myself as casual either. maybe in between?
I personally think the issue gets over simplified. It's not a black and white system, there's a whole grey scale in the middle, and when people try to argue about Hardcore vs Casual, it just leaves out the majority in the middle. I love video games. I play all kinds on all platforms, and I'm fairly obsessive. Yes I occasionally rage, but in the end, I can laugh when I lose and smile when I mess up.Racecarlock said:
I don't deny that there's definitely hardcore and casual gamers (and games). I just think that trying to say "What separates the two?" is like asking "What's the difference between wood and steel?" There's far too much difference to bother even starting, and there's plenty in the middle if you aren't happy with either
Here's my hardcore vs casual test:
1) Imagine a person who has never played the game, nor any game with similar game mechanics
2) Imagine that person playing the game for half an hour
If the person is still completely ineffective at the game, and confused at even the basic controls and game mechanics, it's a hardcore game.
For a real world example, load up any FPS or RTS game, and hand your grandmother the controller.
Casual games may be difficult to master, but they're universally easy to pick up and play regardless of prior gaming experience, and that's where the difference lies.
1) Imagine a person who has never played the game, nor any game with similar game mechanics
2) Imagine that person playing the game for half an hour
If the person is still completely ineffective at the game, and confused at even the basic controls and game mechanics, it's a hardcore game.
For a real world example, load up any FPS or RTS game, and hand your grandmother the controller.
Casual games may be difficult to master, but they're universally easy to pick up and play regardless of prior gaming experience, and that's where the difference lies.
This topic amuses me. Half of he forum seems to think I'm casual, and the other half thinks I'm hardcore.
To add to that, weren't you a casual gamer at one point? Or did you pop out of your mom's vagina playing a game boy?
hahaha i laughed so hard at that
hahaha i laughed so hard at that
The industry seperates the CORE from the casual.
Games are designed and marketed towards such audiences that companies recognize as casual (for them are kid's games, party games, many wii titles, etc.) or core.
Hardcore doesn't come into it and is a seperate thing that doesn't really get catered to.
Funny thing is how everyone has atleast some idea of what casual means, but many love to deny there's a diffference.
Anyone here on the Escapist boards with more than just a few troll topics to his or her name is CORE, not casual. Too late to deny you have much interest in games now.
Games are designed and marketed towards such audiences that companies recognize as casual (for them are kid's games, party games, many wii titles, etc.) or core.
Hardcore doesn't come into it and is a seperate thing that doesn't really get catered to.
Funny thing is how everyone has atleast some idea of what casual means, but many love to deny there's a diffference.
Anyone here on the Escapist boards with more than just a few troll topics to his or her name is CORE, not casual. Too late to deny you have much interest in games now.
You know, that might explain why I remember hardcore being something people commonly self identified as well over a decade ago, rather than something recently cooked up by marketers, as a lot of people around here like to claim it is. They may be getting the idea of a core audience member confused with the idea of a hardcore gamer.veloper said:
I dunno, what seperates someone who only doodles and someone who paints so good they can do it for a living?
What seperates a freshmen whose minoring in business and a CEO?
What seperates tetris and Starcraft? (besides additional pylons)
And speaking of high school what seperates your little bro kicking a soccer ball around the backyard and someone on the varsity team?
Not enough, I guess.
What seperates a freshmen whose minoring in business and a CEO?
What seperates tetris and Starcraft? (besides additional pylons)
And speaking of high school what seperates your little bro kicking a soccer ball around the backyard and someone on the varsity team?
Not enough, I guess.
You know, rhetorical questions tend to lose their potency when you use them on almost every line. And why the hell would a person with a passing interest in gaming want to develop for the medium?
"I hate reading and books but I've thought of this great 500-page novel that I definitely want to write."
"I hate reading and books but I've thought of this great 500-page novel that I definitely want to write."
My first thought is "Game Time"
it usually seems reflective of how much people play, with online capability being another key factor. as well as motivations and how quick-to-anger we are in competitive atmospheres.
it usually seems reflective of how much people play, with online capability being another key factor. as well as motivations and how quick-to-anger we are in competitive atmospheres.