What the big N should do next ?

[KazeAizen]

Buying up other studios isn't a great idea. It won't solve their core problem (Third party developers; they need EA, Ubisoft, and Activision) and the studios they buy will be a money pit trying to make games with the current budgets and only selling them on the Wii U.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nintendo needs to either man up and release a console that's competitive with MS and Sony's as a gaming platform or get out of the home console business.

They did. It was called the Wii.

 

[The_Echo]

Well, it seems like Iwata isn't really helping the company at all.

I wonder what getting rid of him would change.

Other than that, I dunno... I kind of don't care about Nintendo at this point. Frankly one of their biggest issues is the Wii U, which nobody really wants to develop for for a multitude of reasons. The 3DS is doing fine; maybe they should try focusing on that.

Sorry Wii U owners, but it kind of feels like a lost cause.

 

[Something Amyss]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nintendo needs to either man up and release a console that's competitive with MS and Sony's as a gaming platform or get out of the home console business.

That's a bad idea. Abandoning a console this soon in its life cycle will only hurt consumer confidence and piss off/alienate Wii U owners.

Also, those arguments of ''they shouldn't change for you'' are just as bad as ''You don't like it, don't buy it''.
Nobody is asking them to change for us but then no one should complain why the WiiU isn't getting a single shred of support.

You know what? We're the fucking consumer. They should damn well change for us if they want us to buy it.

And that's the thing. Nintendo wants us buying games and buying their hrdware to play those games. This isn't the Wii era Nintendo that could go "we can afford to lose you as consumers," it's a Nintendo who has finally posted an annual loss. It's a Nintendo who has had to revise all its forecasts down. It's a Nintendo who has shareholders breathing down their necks.

So yeah, it's probably worse than the "don't like it? Don't buy it" defense.

 

[Something Amyss]

Catering to "hardcore" gamers: Turns out this was a bad idea as "hardcore" gamers have turned out to be a bunch of bald-faced liars who shed crocodile tears when reality sets in and never, ever back up their words with action. Time to cut them off because they're not worth it, especially since they're swiftly shrinking as a market.

I'd like to know where you came to these conclusions.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

They did. It was called the Wii.

The Wii completely died out during the second half of last generation. It was during the Wii's reign that Nintendo first started posting a loss, with both the 360 and the PS3 quickly catching up to it and having a robust software business to match. On a strategic level, it was a solid third place among the the three consoles, which directly lead to the current situation Nintendo is in.

The fantasy of the Wii being some golden age success is just that- a fantasy. It was short-term windfall before the fickle casual market found new toys to play with. It was the piece of crap flung at the wall that actually stuck for a few minutes, not a shining example of how to build a sustainable business.

That doesn't seem blown highly out of proportion to make a bad point seem reasonable at all.

Probably because it isn't, seeing how the Wii's online isn't even close the Xbox Live when the 360 launched, let alone now. And it's got about as much storage as the original Xbox. Oh yeah, and it can't play DvDs. That's not two generations behind, though- it's three.

 

[KazeAizen]

The Wii completely died out during the second half of last generation. It was during the Wii's reign that Nintendo first started posting a loss, with both the 360 and the PS3 quickly catching up to it and having a robust software business to match. On a strategic level, it was a solid third place among the the three consoles, which directly lead to the current situation Nintendo is in.

The fantasy of the Wii being some golden age success is just that- a fantasy. It was short-term windfall before the fickle casual market found new toys to play with. It was the piece of crap flung at the wall that actually stuck for a few minutes, not a shining example of how to build a sustainable business.

Except it wasn't a piece of crap. It was also Nintendo saying "Here's a brand new toy for the world! Someone do something cool with it besides us!" to which anyone in power firmly steered clear of trying to have some modicum of fun or innovation when it came to controls. The Wii was a success, broke down the door for the mobile phone market, and still delivered on extremely high quality games. At this point I'm chalking up lack of third party to support to paranoid, uncreative company CEOs that want to play it safe instead of actually do something fun or innovative. They have literally 0 excuse for not developing for the Wii U this time around. It has traditional controls plus a kick ass game pad that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to make fun.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Probably because it isn't, seeing how the Wii's online isn't even close the Xbox Live when the 360 launched, let alone now. And it's got about as much storage as the original Xbox. Oh yeah, and it can't play DvDs. That's not two generations behind, though- it's three.

The Wii had it's problems, it was indeed behind in a lot of ways. The Wii U on the other hand is actually quite a good system I have found.

The Wii U's online seems fine to me, you can buy stuff on the store, download updates and it doesn't seem to have any problems playing games online. Also, it doesn't charge for online like the other two systems.

Storage isn't an issue, since you can use USB, SD cards etc, 500gig is bugger all when you consider the sizes of Xbox One and PS4 titles, I can't recall if they let you use external storage, but since (I think) they all have it, storage isn't really a big issue.

I don't think people tend to buy their consoles to play DVDs all that much either, most people have a Bluray/DVD player anyway.

The system still has over 2 million units over the Xbox One, and just under a million over the PS4. The sales for those machines have been slowing a bit now, the initial hype is settling. This year will be interesting to see how they all will perform.

All that said, I agree with the sentiment that they need to step their game up, come up with some killer new IP's, stuff like the Wonderful 101 is awesome. The system has plenty of games I have been enjoying, but they need to make new stuff to bring those new to Nintendo into the fold, some people aren't fans of their old guard IP's and I understand that.

The machine may not be as purely powerful as the others, but the games on it run well and look nice too. Just because something isn't as powerful as the others doesn't instantly remove it from being able to compete with them. Look at previous consoles and their successes, Nintendo have made a few missteps, but they're long from leaving the home console business like a lot of people seem to think they are.

At this point I'm chalking up lack of third party to support to paranoid, uncreative company CEOs that want to play it safe instead of actually do something fun or innovative. They have literally 0 excuse for not developing for the Wii U this time around. It has traditional controls plus a kick ass game pad that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to make fun.

Agreed, if it's not full of violence, guns and such like many "mature" games that are coming for the other two systems, then they don't seem to want to take any chances. Games like Zombi U use the controls well and were really fun. Plus, it's the only system that seems do more then a little bit of local multiplayer lately. Games like Smash Bros (I know it's not out yet), Super Mario 3D world, Dr Luigi (which Ive had a blast with) and many more offer local multiplayer, usually up to 4 people, some Nintendoland games go up to 5 and they're quite fun.

Aside from a couple of fighting games, I haven't seen much outside of maybe Resogun that do local multiplayer, and do it well. (Some sport titles too probably.) The PS4 and Xbox One don't seem to really have much to offer, because they want people paying for Xbox Live and PS+ I would imagine.

 

[King Aragorn]

The Wii completely died out during the second half of last generation. It was during the Wii's reign that Nintendo first started posting a loss, with both the 360 and the PS3 quickly catching up to it and having a robust software business to match. On a strategic level, it was a solid third place among the the three consoles, which directly lead to the current situation Nintendo is in.

The fantasy of the Wii being some golden age success is just that- a fantasy. It was short-term windfall before the fickle casual market found new toys to play with. It was the piece of crap flung at the wall that actually stuck for a few minutes, not a shining example of how to build a sustainable business.

Except it wasn't a piece of crap. It was also Nintendo saying "Here's a brand new toy for the world! Someone do something cool with it besides us!" to which anyone in power firmly steered clear of trying to have some modicum of fun or innovation when it came to controls. The Wii was a success, broke down the door for the mobile phone market, and still delivered on extremely high quality games. At this point I'm chalking up lack of third party to support to paranoid, uncreative company CEOs that want to play it safe instead of actually do something fun or innovative. They have literally 0 excuse for not developing for the Wii U this time around. It has traditional controls plus a kick ass game pad that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to make fun.

How are motion controls fun? I mean, beyond a few instances they're usually a negative over a positive because the technology is still really limited and it cannot serve as the primary method of control because of that, just an addition/enhancer to the core game controls. The lack of third party support comes down to Nintendo not really trying for third party attention and the console being weaker than it's two counter parts doesn't help on the developer side either way. The entire thing just feels like an over glorified tablet campaign, when it should be an accessory.

 

[Roxas1359]

Storage isn't an issue, since you can use USB, SD cards etc, 500gig is bugger all when you consider the sizes of Xbox One and PS4 titles, I can't recall if they let you use external storage, but since (I think) they all have it, storage isn't really a big issue.

PS4 has interchangeable HDDs since the PS4 and the PS3 just use a standard laptop hard drive. On the PS4 the games run based off on the discs as well, they don't have to have a mandatory install on them like the Xbox One does. The Xbox One on the other hand is supposed to support external HDD's based off the USB ports like how the Wii U is, but it's not been patched in yet. The Xbox One also has mandatory installs for the games onto the HDD like how the PS3 games used to be until 2009. PS3 games nowadays run mainly off the discs, so if you're going full digital on the consoles then it'll take up a lot of space, but if you're still using discs then the Wii U and PS4 won't run into memory problems.

One downside on the Wii U's end though is that a portable HDD will only work on one Wii U. If your Wii U were to say break and you got a new you'd have to format everything on the HDD to be able to use it on your new Wii U.

As for the "mature" debate, why is it that people instantly think that guns, boobs, and blood make games "mature"? Those aren't mature, and when most people are saying they want mature games they are talking about adult themes mainly. Nintendo only every briefly touches on those, then throws them under the rug. Maturity =/= blood and gore, and when people say they want mature games it doesn't always mean that they want blood and gore.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Except it wasn't a piece of crap.

Point in contention. I owned the thing, and never at any point was I glad that Nintendo wasn't just releasing its games on the 360 instead.

It was also Nintendo saying "Here's a brand new toy for the world! Someone do something cool with it besides us!" to which anyone in power firmly steered clear of trying to have some modicum of fun or innovation when it came to controls.

Nintendo pretty much lead the way in uncreative Wiimote usage. They had a few party games and a bunch of games that used some form of waggle as a button input.

The Wii was a success, broke down the door for the mobile phone market,

That was apple, not the Wii.

and still delivered on extremely high quality games.

Point in contention. The Wii marked the point where even Nintendo fans started getting bored of their output.

At this point I'm chalking up lack of third party to support to paranoid, uncreative company CEOs that want to play it safe instead of actually do something fun or innovative. They have literally 0 excuse for not developing for the Wii U this time around. It has traditional controls plus a kick ass game pad that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to make fun.

They don't need excuses when they have rock-solid business reasons like the Wii and Wii U not being multi-plat friendly, Wii owners not being a market that buys a lot of games, or the Wii U being the clear loser in install base this time around.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Except it wasn't a piece of crap. It was also Nintendo saying "Here's a brand new toy for the world! Someone do something cool with it besides us!" to which anyone in power firmly steered clear of trying to have some modicum of fun or innovation when it came to controls. The Wii was a success, broke down the door for the mobile phone market, and still delivered on extremely high quality games. At this point I'm chalking up lack of third party to support to paranoid, uncreative company CEOs that want to play it safe instead of actually do something fun or innovative. They have literally 0 excuse for not developing for the Wii U this time around. It has traditional controls plus a kick ass game pad that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to make fun.

That is the thing; the only reason the Wii slowed down was because Nintendo CHOSE to pull the plug on it. It was only during 2012 that its sales finally plummeted, mostly due to lack of product and probably because they reached the saturation point with it. Plus if the Wii WAS a fluke then what about the DS. Or the 3DS? Nintendo basically humiliated Sony and MS last gen, being the ones with the most sales outright AND were the only ones who made the black for the entire gen. And they even did it without a lot of 3rd party support which rubbed salt in the wound. I can SORTA see why people wouldn't want to admit the truth (it is a bit frustrating to see how Nintendo basically suplexed the idea that there is a "right" way to make consoles) but it's been YEARS, time to grow up and just admit it. Bottling it up isn't healthy

 

[Kittyhawk]

@KingsGambit

Your 'get japanese' bit sounds good but is already done. The problem is its very Ouroborous, because the potential japanese games market is shrinking, due to a low birth rate there. This is another core reason for Nintendo to think beyond Japan to earn money.

Also playing into that is your appeal to kids part. Pokemon meets that gap nicely and does well for them. Thing is Pokemon is still only available on 3DS. Many kids have progressed onto the vast variety mobile/tablet games. If Nintendo don't go mobile at some point, they will miss out. The other reason why Nintendo could do well in this area is because, they likely won't do micro-transaction that demand more of the player, like those that can plague iOS/android games etc.

Gamers need a variety of games to play. Variety is lacking in Nintendo games and has been for a long time.

 

[King Aragorn]

The Wii was released when everyone was up the motion control craze, everyone saw it as the ''future'' and all, it's only competition at the time was the 360 which wasn't coming off with the best rep considering the failure of the original XBox and it was after all Nintendo so it sold like hot cakes. Yes, it did win the last generation, but as evident by the WiiU, a tablet, just like motion controls, won't sustain people for long.

 

[Roxas1359]

That is the thing; the only reason the Wii slowed down was because Nintendo CHOSE to pull the plug on it. It was only during 2012 that its sales finally plummeted, mostly due to lack of product and probably because they reached the saturation point with it.

That's not true. While software wise they pulled the plug, if they pulled the plug entirely on the console then the Wii Mini would never have been made, and really it never should have been made. The Wii Mini is still on sale and was released all around the world last year, and it only harmed possible Wii U sales because of the miscommunication Nintendo had at saying the Wii U was a new console entirely. The Wii sales over time also began starting in 2010 which is why Nintendo announced the Wii U in 2011 because they saw the sales were starting to taper off. But with the Family Model Wii launch in 2011 and the Wii Mini launching in 2012 and going worldwide in 2013 it's obvious that Nintendo didn't pull the plug on the Wii when they should have (mainly in the beginning of 2013 since the Wii U can play Wii games).

 

[KazeAizen]

Point in contention. I owned the thing, and never at any point was I glad that Nintendo wasn't just releasing its games on the 360 instead.

Nintendo pretty much lead the way in uncreative Wiimote usage. They had a few party games and a bunch of games that used some form of waggle as a button input.

They were the only ones doing ANYTHING with their own toy. Skyward Sword showed us what motion controls could do for AAA games. No one gave it the chance it deserved and they are doing the exact same thing with the Wii U.

That was apple, not the Wii.

From what I heard they more or less migrated there from the Wii.

Point in contention. The Wii marked the point where even Nintendo fans started getting bored of their output.

Except the games were still peerless in terms of quality. People accuse Nintendo of churning out the same stuff but they don't. They chance, modify, innovate, and generally try and do new things with their established franchises. There are a billion other franchises out there that do none of the sort and with really lackluster reskins of previous entries.

They don't need excuses when they have rock-solid business reasons like the Wii and Wii U not being multi-plat friendly, Wii owners not being a market that buys a lot of games, or the Wii U being the clear loser in install base this time around.

This I can't really argue but it still makes my blood boil to the absolute core.

 

[KazeAizen]

How are motion controls fun? I mean, beyond a few instances they're usually a negative over a positive because the technology is still really limited and it cannot serve as the primary method of control because of that, just an addition/enhancer to the core game controls. The lack of third party support comes down to Nintendo not really trying for third party attention and the console being weaker than it's two counter parts doesn't help on the developer side either way. The entire thing just feels like an over glorified tablet campaign, when it should be an accessory.

The console being weaker is absolutely no excuse to me. Its utter flim flam. Yes lets drive up our development prices for these consoles so we can see a few dozen more pores on a mans head. Therefore requiring us to sell more games launch and in turn keeping us from taking any form of risk whatsoever and stagnating the market. Seriously why is this whole weaker console thing even an argument. I would think companies would be happy that there is a new console just slightly above but very similar to the last two consoles in terms of power so that they could, if not decrease, then at least keep the same their already pricey development costs.

 

[lacktheknack]

and they are nothing short of saints for tolerating us.

I believe you meant "EA".

We don't deserve Nintendo

For that matter, we don't "deserve" video games, TV, consoles, or any other such amusements through any virtue of our own beyond being able to pay for them. What's your point? Did Nintendo become a deity of sorts when I wasn't looking that we need and should be grateful for having?

OT: They should hold on for the ride. Once they get some killer apps out there (Smash Bros, anyone?), the Wii U will go from slow-burner to firecracker.

EDIT:

Catering to "hardcore" gamers: Turns out this was a bad idea as "hardcore" gamers have turned out to be a bunch of bald-faced liars who shed crocodile tears when reality sets in and never, ever back up their words with action. Time to cut them off because they're not worth it, especially since they're swiftly shrinking as a market.

I had a hard time figuring out what you were referring to in terms of "liars" and "cry when reality sets in" and "never act on their words".

So, at random, I chose the think about the Dark Souls debacle, where hardcore gamers petitioned to have the game ported to PC, and the company listened and ported it, where it was promptly purchased by thousands of people, flaws and all, and it ended up being one of the "Core" games on the Nexus Modding site.

...yeah, we're whinging lying layabouts, all right.

 

[King Aragorn]

[
A s

How are motion controls fun? I mean, beyond a few instances they're usually a negative over a positive because the technology is still really limited and it cannot serve as the primary method of control because of that, just an addition/enhancer to the core game controls. The lack of third party support comes down to Nintendo not really trying for third party attention and the console being weaker than it's two counter parts doesn't help on the developer side either way. The entire thing just feels like an over glorified tablet campaign, when it should be an accessory.

The console being weaker is absolutely no excuse to me. Its utter flim flam. Yes lets drive up our development prices for these consoles so we can see a few dozen more pores on a mans head. Therefore requiring us to sell more games launch and in turn keeping us from taking any form of risk whatsoever and stagnating the market. Seriously why is this whole weaker console thing even an argument. I would think companies would be happy that there is a new console just slightly above but very similar to the last two consoles in terms of power so that they could, if not decrease, then at least keep the same their already pricey development costs.

Stronger console is far more than just a few more wrinkles and more realistic looking leaves. More powerful hardware takes away hardware limitations, it allows for more expansive worlds, more robust game mechanics and ideas being better realized on more powerful hardware. Just take a look at mods and what people are capable of doing with better hardware. Throwing that away just because Nintendo can't pick up is bit of a travesty, if you ask me.
Also what's up with people always throwing graphics away as if they're completely irrelevant? good/great graphics and detail can enhance the experience just like music and art style can. They immerse you more into the world and are all overall part of the atmosphere. Not critical perhaps, but still relevant.

 

[Exhuminator]

If Nintendo would just make an awesome F-Zero for the 3DS, I'd be happy with them for the rest of this generation.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

The console being weaker is absolutely no excuse to me. Its utter flim flam. Yes lets drive up our development prices for these consoles so we can see a few dozen more pores on a mans head. Therefore requiring us to sell more games launch and in turn keeping us from taking any form of risk whatsoever and stagnating the market. Seriously why is this whole weaker console thing even an argument. I would think companies would be happy that there is a new console just slightly above but very similar to the last two consoles in terms of power so that they could, if not decrease, then at least keep the same their already pricey development costs.

That's another reason I can't take devs seriously; they constantly whine about how development prices keep going up...but THEY'RE the ones letting them go up in the first place. The last time I checked, neither gamers nor publishers were holding a gun to devs' heads demanding they spend this much money. The fact of the matter is it's been proven time and time again that power means NOTHING if you don't know how to use it properly.