What the Fable Franchise should of been.

[Geo Da Sponge]

The title should say 'should have', not 'should of'. More importantly I find your idea for a new leveling system boring and without merit. There's nothing really distinguishing your system from any other leveling system apart from the fact that you have to waste time acting apprentices to these 'masters'. People don't want to spend a game shackled to various NPCs, they want to explore. They want to make their own way in the world. And your idea for 'lengthening' the game boils down to making paper grind for experience.

Honestly though, you lost me around about the point you added in a video with people whining about Left 4 Dead 2.

I never said you couldn't explore. You just go to these people to learn new abilities (something like Assassins Creed 2 where you learn new skills from that training guy)

Well yeah, you could explore except:

A) You can't really level up by exploring since you need to work with these 'masters' to gain new skills

and

B) There's no need to look for loot since you have a magical legendary weapon that levels with you. You said you could buy new weapons but why would you want to do that when you've a legendary weapon from the start.

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

The title should say 'should have', not 'should of'. More importantly I find your idea for a new leveling system boring and without merit. There's nothing really distinguishing your system from any other leveling system apart from the fact that you have to waste time acting apprentices to these 'masters'. People don't want to spend a game shackled to various NPCs, they want to explore. They want to make their own way in the world. And your idea for 'lengthening' the game boils down to making paper grind for experience.

Honestly though, you lost me around about the point you added in a video with people whining about Left 4 Dead 2.

I never said you couldn't explore. You just go to these people to learn new abilities (something like Assassins Creed 2 where you learn new skills from that training guy)

Well yeah, you could explore except:

A) You can't really level up by exploring since you need to work with these 'masters' to gain new skills

and

B) There's no need to look for loot since you have a magical legendary weapon that levels with you. You said you could buy new weapons but why would you want to do that when you've a legendary weapon from the start.

Yeah but its not like you'll be travelling naked. Also the masters are for learniing new skills (did you get the Assassins Creed 2 reference I gave you?) when you level up the game recognizes that you are an apprentice learnng to be a ninja and your stats naturaly increase. I forgot to add that every class has the bow/musket so you'll need to buy new bows/muskets as well.

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

People at Sony should reuse Fable and make it better with another brand name....

"You CAN present a dark world of injustice, but you need to get the people designing the world and the people writing your script on the same page. Fable is too cartoonish (in both presentation and depth) to support that sort of complex narrative. I can?t help but get the feeling Peter Molyneux thinks this is somehow funny.

There is something wrong with that guy."

that was funny !

Yeah thats one problem I have with Fable, it tries to be funny and serious at the same time. It doesn't mix well and makes the games plot seem stupid. If Sony made a Fable tpe game it would probably be darker because Sony tends to release more mature games (God of War, Heavy Rain, Demon Soul...)

 

[imnot]

i like Fable how it is (havent played 2 though)
the world in Fable tlc is a nice size (started playing again yesteday)
the combat is good (in my opinion)
classes wouldnt work i dont think.
sorry im a fable fanboy.

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

i like Fable how it is (havent played 2 though)
the world in Fable tlc is a nice size (started playing again yesteday)
the combat is good (in my opinion)
classes wouldnt work i dont think.
sorry im a fable fanboy.

I like you played Fable the Lost Chapters (as my first Fable game) and loved it. Play Fable 2 and you'll be on board with my ideas. More than half the magic from Fable TLC is gone and there are basically no bosses like Jack of Blades. Fable 2 is utter shit compared to TLC.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

I dunno, only having 4 classes seems a bit restrictive. I like being able to be a warrior who also happens to be good at magic. As for exploration, yah, they could have made the world a lot bigger than they did. To "solve" the problem in Fable 2, they added ridiculous distances coupled with ridiculous travel times to compensate. To travel from the gypsy camp to bowerstone market, you travel 120 miles in 20 hours by foot. And of course nothing of any significance happens on the way there, either.

 

[viranimus]

I do grow ever so weary of the aggro the fable series generates.

Is it a perfect game? No. Could it use improvements? What game couldnt? Is it an enjoyable experience? Depends on the player.

On the tech tree proposed... I really think this is a bad idea. How many other RPG esque games do we have that forces you to predefine your toon? Now compare that to how many games will allow you to develop in essence your own class by giving you access to all the tech trees and not limiting you once you start down a specific path.

Honestly... you could satisfy that by simply adding achievements that if you choose to go down the STR, DEX, INT paths completely, you gain a specific title in game, and an achievement for it. IE "The mage" "The rogue" "The porkchop" Seriously Im glad fable doesnt pigeonhole class making. I like the ability to be a tank type warrior, with the ability to stop time at a mastery level, forsaking the other arcane arts and the ability to shoot a bow. Its fine how it has been. But by arguing against something that has been a cornerstone in the franchise, your basically just as well to play something else. Much like someone else recommended, Ego Draconis.

As for the world.. Yeah perhaps it could be bigger, but at the same time, Im not a fan of wasted effort either. Many games like oblivion, Fallout, FF games have purposeful dead ends that really all they do is either serve as a time sink, Or reward your "exploring" (and I dont consider scanning every possible corridor as exploring, as much as I consider it mapping) with some trinket, which is usually not worth the effort it took to find it, Not always, but usually. I would much rather deal with something where the exploration is a little more linear, that doesnt waste your time and effort, and puts those resources to better use by having a more enjoyable city experience. A lot of RPGs look at cities as .. come into town, trade junk gear, buy provisions, check around for a few quests, get your shit and get out. While its not perfect, at least fable tries something different such as offering the arc of being a trader, developing relationships, build reputation, ect. Again its not perfect, but I would rather explore something like this, than a thousand dead end corridors, or spend hours picking up empty pop cans.

As for weaponry. I think fable could improve on its weaponry system. And I really want some armor again, instead of dresses. I mean kinda hard to feel all bad ass sporting around a 2 ton axe, and my armor consists of pantaloons. It would be nice if fable incorporated a basic trade skill engine in order to add some more flavor, But i disagree with modified epic weapons. Seems rather counter intuitive to have an "epic" weapon.. you just made up. an epic weapon should have seen a lot of death and destruction long before you were even nothing more than an itch.

I am not trying to have this to come off insulting, but in reading the post and the specified improvements i couldnt help but to think that the OP seemed a little upset that fable wasnt more like WoW. I might be wrong, But thats just how it seemed to me.

None the less. Its not a perfect game, because there is no such thing and there will always be room for improvement. However personally I was quite happy with both fable 1 & 2 and I felt that I definitely got my moneys worth of enjoyment out of both. If you dont, thats fine, thats why they make a lot of different games and perhaps something else would be more to your liking. But what is the point of breaking down a game and wanting to change a game so it ends up being just a clone of something else?

The franchise has obviously been profitable so there is enough of a fanbase to support it. I do think its good to critique things to make them better. Discontent is the first step of progress of any man or nation. But it seems counter productive to offer up ideas to make it better, that would just turn it into something else that already exists in one form or another.

Sorry for long windedness, and this isnt meant to be a personal attack, but as I said at the offset I do get so weary of hearing so much dissent over how fable is, when even with its flaws its still a good and worth while game.

 

[imnot]

i like Fable how it is (havent played 2 though)
the world in Fable tlc is a nice size (started playing again yesteday)
the combat is good (in my opinion)
classes wouldnt work i dont think.
sorry im a fable fanboy.

I like you played Fable the Lost Chapters (as my first Fable game) and loved it. Play Fable 2 and you'll be on board with my ideas. More than half the magic from Fable TLC is gone and there are basically no bosses like Jack of Blades. Fable 2 is utter shit compared to TLC.

so i hear, i got the demo and enjoyed it, if that counts(that does only go to just after you killthose bandits)

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

The title should say 'should have', not 'should of'. More importantly I find your idea for a new leveling system boring and without merit. There's nothing really distinguishing your system from any other leveling system apart from the fact that you have to waste time acting apprentices to these 'masters'. People don't want to spend a game shackled to various NPCs, they want to explore. They want to make their own way in the world. And your idea for 'lengthening' the game boils down to making paper grind for experience.

Honestly though, you lost me around about the point you added in a video with people whining about Left 4 Dead 2.

I never said you couldn't explore. You just go to these people to learn new abilities (something like Assassins Creed 2 where you learn new skills from that training guy)

Well yeah, you could explore except:

A) You can't really level up by exploring since you need to work with these 'masters' to gain new skills

and

B) There's no need to look for loot since you have a magical legendary weapon that levels with you. You said you could buy new weapons but why would you want to do that when you've a legendary weapon from the start.

Yeah but its not like you'll be travelling naked. Also the masters are for learniing new skills (did you get the Assassins Creed 2 reference I gave you?) when you level up the game recognizes that you are an apprentice learnng to be a ninja and your stats naturaly increase. I forgot to add that every class has the bow/musket so you'll need to buy new bows/muskets as well.

So what you're saying is that the masters ultimately serve no purpose? You could just as easily have the character learn the abilities on their own when they level up, so the masters just seem like a system that would slow the game down and force you to occasionally report back to them from wherever you where.

Just like the guy who teaches you new skills in Assassin's Creed 2 is useless. I didn't even realise you could learn advanced techniques from him until after I'd finished the game and was trying to get the rest of the achievements.

 

[Kryzantine]

IMO, it's a dumb idea.

For one, I object about every character in Fable being a mix of will and strength. I usually specialize in just one of the three, and take only a few skills from the other categories. Sometimes I go with the "ninja" mechanic, which is hybrid strength and skill. Sometimes I go the pure mage route. Sometimes I go the pure brawler route. Really, the only caveat I can think of is that there aren't enough sub-skills to specialize in for strength and skill. But your idea defeats one of the intentions of Fable, which is an honest to god simple open ended leveling system. It's one of the easiest systems to use in an RPG. Get experience, invest in something that you'll use to kill stronger enemies. I really can't imagine going through Fable with any other system, because the one it has just works too well for it.

Your other main idea that's worth talking about, the "masters" system also doesn't belong in the style of the game. The whole purpose of Fable is that you're a young guy (or girl) out to make your own quest, your own fable. The whole point is that you're not merely following in the footsteps of anyone, you're carving your own legacy and growing your own skills to levels that are unknown to everyone else. No matter what, you're always at the top of the food chain. Trainers are counter-intuitive to this. It gives the message that there are people stronger than you. The player doesn't want that.

I'm not even going to bother with the whole legendary weapon thing, if only because that is an actual addition to Fable 3. But arguing that a franchise "should have been something other than it was" and then going on to say your only basis is your disagreement with some of the core mechanics... I mean, play a different game. The current mechanics are in place because that's how Molyneux envisioned it, and because they fit with the idea of the game itself. To argue that they should be different is arguing that the core idea of the game should be different.

If you're going to argue that Fable has a problem, at least focus on issues with the actual games themselves. For instance, there weren't enough meaningful sidequests in the original Fable, and there isn't much to do after the story is completed in either game (granted, Fable 2 improved on that, but really not enough). Those are legitimate complaints.

 

[dlawnro]

My thought is: new IP, no reason that has to be Fable since they already have an established system that works (to some degree). Maybe add a class or two (ie a ranger who mostly relies on bows/guns and has a low-damage area of effect spell designed to clear enemies away and give some room.) Make each class follow a similar storyline, with obvious tweaks so that each class has slightly different bosses requiring different skills so you don't have the Alpha Protocol problem of a stealth player having to duke it out in open combat with a dude with a minigun.
You would choose a master for your specific class, and they would give you your story missions, with each master giving you quests suited to your predetermined class. However, there would also be plenty of general side quests that everyone could complete, regardless of class. In that way, you would still get the feeling of an open world and wouldn't be shackled to one NPC or another for the entire game. The story missions through the masters would unlock advanced spells/attacks/skills for your chosen class, but some sort of XP system would also allow you to dabble in other areas, so you aren't stuck entirely in one fighting style.
Over the course of the game you would move from one master to another, sort of in the Rockstar system where you exhaust the missions from one source and move on to another. Each master would have a particular personality and approach to the troubles at hand (in a philosophical sense), and would offer a slight variety in the skills they offered. However, you would only choose a certain amount of masters. For instance, you might start the game by choosing between several level 1 masters, and once you pick that one, you stick with him/her. Once you finish with that master, you choose between several level 2 masters, rinse, repeat.
That's just a system I thought up in the last 10 minutes or so, but it sounds entertaining enough to me. Others might not agree, or maybe it's been done well before, I don't know.

 

[Xero Scythe]

i like Fable how it is (havent played 2 though)
the world in Fable tlc is a nice size (started playing again yesteday)
the combat is good (in my opinion)
classes wouldnt work i dont think.
sorry im a fable fanboy.

I like you played Fable the Lost Chapters (as my first Fable game) and loved it. Play Fable 2 and you'll be on board with my ideas. More than half the magic from Fable TLC is gone and there are basically no bosses like Jack of Blades. Fable 2 is utter shit compared to TLC.

I heard that the game of the year edition had some redeeming qualities. Though I've only played TLC myself.

 

[Mutie]

Should *have* been. I could harp on and on about "what should have been in Fable" and "What the next one should do" and "I'dve done it like this" but I feel it moot to do so. Fable The Lost Chapters and Fable II Game of the Year Edition are two of the best, most immersive and impressively executed video games in our current times. To change them, even to rectify some of the larger mistake, would be to create something that is not Fable. I'm going to buy Fable 3 and look forward to the day when I come home from a hard day's questing to find my wife missing and my only child stood silent and motionless in the living room corner.

 

[cthulhumythos]

*cough* halo 3 odst was a expansion pack *cough*


ANYWAYS i think fable should stop with the you're disgustingly good or heinously evil aspect. also the one that isn't strength or magic ( i forgot what it's called) should have more stealth

bring back armor(i actually heard they have) and don't make fable3 kinect dependent.

 

[Therumancer]

All jokes aside, sequels are supposed to be more of the same, a continuation of the first title. I'm all for creativity and coming up with new things, but that is what new franchises are for, an ongoing series should not be re-inventing the wheel constantly. This does not mean that you do not improve things, or add new features, but it does mean that you don't alter the key elements or core game play.

What you (the OP) suggest sounds like a good game, and the stuff of a new franchise, but not the continuation of Fable.

To be honest with some of the things I've been hearing I'm not sure if I'll like Fable 3 because it seems to be altering the game drastically as far as reducing the RPG elements in what was already a very 'lite' game even more.

The biggest complaint I've had about Fable has always been that Peter Molyneux hypes the game from here to eternity and claims it has all these features and does all these things, but then it never does when the game is finally released. He doesn't push it as far as "Age Of Conan" did in this regard, but enough to be annoying. What is functionally a very simple game never had all of the morality components and such that he claimed it was going to have, and your abillity to influance the world is fairly minimal, truthfully the only major change I've noticed you can inflict is in Fable 2 where your tutorial desicians can influance what Bowerstone's "Old Town" looks like later on, and that's more cosmetic than anything.

Oh, I can see why the game never involved the things that he said it did. Too many variables in each place means more design work to build them, and of course that means more resources and money invested. You either wind up with a very short game, or one that would take more money and dev time than he and Lionhead would want to put in. Truthfully it would be posssible to make a "Fable" game that fulfilled all of the promises and had a decent length, but it would also involve the budget of a major first tier MMORPG without the same potential month-to-month payoff. It still blows chips though.

I'll also agree that "Divinity 2" is a decent game, and very ambitious, I've played it a bit myself even if I haven't gotten too far. It is however not very well polished and nowhere near as pretty as Fable 2. For example in playing my version on the 360 I was enjoying it until I ran into a problem with ladders and stairways vanishing and trapping me in an area, while this could be resolved to some extent by juggling save slots and reloading to earlier saves when I noticed one disappeared it was VERY annoying. In comparison I think "Fable" and "Fable 2" were much higher quality games even if they were more shallow, I didn't run into those kinds of problems.

 

[Blue Musician]

I would have preferred Fable to be a completely different game instead.

 

[ALuckyChance]

I never played Fable 2, as I don't have a X-box 360. However, I have played Fable TLC, and I enjoyed it. The only problems I really found with the game was both the unskippable tutorial and the scope of TLC in general. When I got past the tutorial, I expected nonlinearity and many sidequests. Instead, I got something that looked nonlinear, but really wasn't.

I wouldn't enjoy your suggestion on classes. See, I'm person who enjoys multiclassing to fit my needs as a character. With Oblivion, you only had a very basic mold, and could do whatever you want from there. Your suggestion sounds like picking a class and staying with it, which is fine in games like Diablo 2, but not an open-ended RPG.

Also, your whole 'level up to get skill points to find someone to train you in skills' sounds eerily like the Gothic games (and Risen!). You might want to look at them; you might like 'em.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Sounds interesting except I don't like the part about having to seek out additional masters after the first one. I think that after you've trained with your chosen master then leveling up should proceed as it currently does in Fable, with the exception that you're locked in to your chosen class so the skills and abilities you can spend experience on depend on what class you've chosen. Then, as in Fable (the first one), you take one quests (only there'd be a lot more of them because of the bigger Albion) and completing them would again depend on your chosen class. For example, that quest where you had to infiltrate Twinblade's camp, it pissed me off that I was forced to sneak passed the guards in that first section. But with the class system, if you chose to be a ninja then you could do it the stealthy way; but if, like me, you'd rather just kill the guards and storm the camp, you could be the be the swordsman or barbarian and do just that.

 

[Zuljiin]

Too much "I love Japan" in this thread for me. Fable's fine as it is. Only problem with it is that Petey should learn to shut his mouth a little. But he's lovably quirky, and once you learn to separate what's going to be in the game and what Molyneux is just "thinking about", it's not that terrible.

Seriously though, ninja stars in Fable?