What videogame music can be up to classic music?

[bl4ckh4wk64]

Really this girlfriend seems annoying.

Rather than try to convince her to like video game music, I think she has much larger problems that she needs to address. Were she in one of my classes, then we could discuss in great length her attitudes. But since I don't know her in person, that isn't going to happen.

So, rather than offering video game soundtracks I offer instead three academic articles she might want to read:

Janet Levy, "Covert and Casual Values in Recent Writings about Music" Journal of Musicology, Vol 1 No 1, Winter 1987
Robert Fink, "Elvis Everywhere: Musicology and Popular Music Studies at the Twilight of the Canon" American Music Vol 16 No 2, Summer 1998
Bethany Bryson, "'Anything but Heavy Metal: Symbolic Exclusion and Musical Dislikes" American Sociological Review, Vol 61 No 5, Oct 1996

All three articles are available through JSTOR if your friend's girlfriend has access to it.

But if she is determined to fixate on the music of German nationalism, there isn't much you can do about it.

Note: I say this as a Professor of Musicology

With all due respect, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with not liking a particular style of music, nor is there is problem with listening almost solely to music you find enjoyable. I rarely, if ever, listen to rap music and country music, but I will give it a chance now and then if a friend recommends it. It seems that she has given music featured in video games a listen on a few different occasions and has decided she hasn't liked anything she has heard yet. We can't and shouldn't fault her for the things she finds appealing. It's a very subjective subject and no amount of force will cause her to change her mind and suddenly like it.

If she's willing to give anything listed in this thread a listen, good for her. She's showing a willingness to be open minded and at least give it a try. If it just turns out that she doesn't find any of it appealing, then there isn't anything we can do about it. If she takes to bashing it, then I could see there being a problem with her reaction or attitude.

Spoiler: Too important to snip so I spoilered it

There issue is not that she doesn't like it (though I'll come back to that in a second). Everyone has different tastes. But that she says, to quote the OP: "She thought videogame music isn't sophisticated enough to match old classical music, and I'm sure most people would say not much of any other music is."

The issue is "sophisticated enough." This is where Janet Levy's "Covert and Casual Values" is useful. When people say "sophisticated" or "complicated" they mean sophisticated or complicated harmonically. They are using as a universal value to judge all music one criteria--developmental harmonic complexity--which was primarily the concern of a group German composers from 1750-1900. The judgement then says, French classical music isn't as good because its harmony isn't sophisticated enough. And of course popular music or film music can't be as good because its harmony isn't sophisticated enough.

But there are musical values other than complicated harmony. The blues, as a genre, uses only 3 chords. That's it. By the values that says Beethoven is the best composer ever, that this girlfriend seems to hold, no blues ever can be good music. The Blues isn't interested in complex harmony. It is interested in complex timbre. Jazz is interested in complex improvisation. There are genres interested in complex rhythm. And others interested in complex melody or complex ornamentation. Still others value simplicity rather than complexity.

I like art music, but I don't dismiss other music from being good because it doesn't match the values of art music.

This is like listening to a folk singer and saying that folk singer sucks because they don't sing like an opera singer. No duh, the folk singer isn't trying to sing like an opera singer.

Now on to the second issue. Sure, listen to the music you like. But (and this is were "Anything but Heavy Metal" is useful) genres often carry meaning beyond their sounds.

On the first day of my classes, as a way to illustrate this, I often ask my students "What kind of music do you like?" I often hear, "I like all music, but not country." Of course, when I press them, it turns out that a) they don't actually like all music and b) they don't really know anything about country music--they wouldn't know Patsy Cline from Taylor Swift. With further questioning, these kids often like folk music...or they say they do. They often say they like the blues as well, maybe even bluegrass. I then play some songs in these different genres...that are the exact same song, often sounding the same as well (Maybe "John Henry"). What's the difference if it isn't the sound? When we talk about it, it turns out, most of the time, its because they associate country with conservatism and a part of the country they don't like and they don't want anyone to think they are conservative. In short, they want people to think of them a certain way, so they say, "I don't like country."

Similarly, I point out that never, in all my years of teaching, has any student ever said to me, "I like all music, but not classical."--even though I'm pretty sure there are many students in class who don't like classical music. But there is anxiety that if you *say* you don't like classical music, people will think you are uncultured. On the flipside, people who say things like "I like classical music and don't like any popular music," tend to be broadcasting a lot more than just their musical taste.

Where do you teach at? I'd like to take that class.

 

[darkwolf29]

Yoko Shimomura is a great composer and I liked her work in Kingdom Hearts, according to Wikipedia (yeah I know unreliable source) her music is played at several video game music concerts and her work is very popular. Hope this helps.

 

[trooper6]

Where do you teach at? I'd like to take that class.

Tufts University in Massachusetts. It's a good school that is a mix between Liberal Arts College and Research University. I recommend it! It also has an engineering school, med school, and vet school for the more science-y types.

ETA: Oh, you can also get similar views from professors in Musicology at UCLA...there are a couple of other schools as well.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

Where do you teach at? I'd like to take that class.

Tufts University in Massachusetts. It's a good school that is a mix between Liberal Arts College and Research University. I recommend it! It also has an engineering school, med school, and vet school for the more science-y types.

Hah! What a coincidence, I was actually applying there next year.

 

[busterkeatonrules]

My standard reply to this kind of thread.


Yes, ALL the music in Grandia is THIS good!

It is also greatly varied, so I do recommend you check out some more tracks.

 

[SilentCom]

I think Castlevania might have some good classical-like music:

 

[Nooners]

The Solaris Theme from Sonic 2006. About the only good thing form that game, but it's not horribly subtle or complex. I'd also recommend some of the music from Phantasy Star Online, and like some other people have said, the Elder Scrolls. And as much as I hate to direct anything related to art in the Call of Duty direction, I have to admit that the soundtrack for Modern Warfare 2 was composed by HANS ZIMMER and is really, really good.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

Halo, Legend of Zelda, Majoras mask in particular.

 

[trooper6]

Where do you teach at? I'd like to take that class.

Tufts University in Massachusetts. It's a good school that is a mix between Liberal Arts College and Research University. I recommend it! It also has an engineering school, med school, and vet school for the more science-y types.

Hah! What a coincidence, I was actually applying there next year.

Great! Best of luck with the application process and I hope I see you in one of my classes!

 

[PurkinjeFiber]

I completely agree with most of what's been previously posted. So, I'll post some of the more obscure game music I really enjoy.

Helghan Forever (Main Theme) - Killzone 2



"Main Title Theme" - Resident Evil Outbreak


"Staff Credit" - Final Fantasy Tactics

[youtube=TnzbXnLLfE8&fmt=18}

Enjoy!

 

[Bravo 21]

I'll see the classical music, and raise this:
(it's from one of the mass effect 2 trailers found here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYlSUjec8mY

 

[Austin Howe]

I'm just gonna solve a big problem here and say

"MOST OF THE STUFF IN THE GOOD GAMES. THAT'S PART OF WHY THEY'RE GOOD Y'KNOW!"

 

[KissofKetchup]

Bioshock might interest her, it's not strictly classical, but big band.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

I'd say Nobuo Uematsu and Shoji Meguro are some of the best composers out there today.

Kudos for Ninja'ing me and the song I was going to post.

In that case, I have my aces in the hole:


I mean, who would ever try to mix hip hop, rock, and classical, and have it turn out well?

Also:

 

[TiefBlau]

The problem with modern music is that it really is simplistic. That's not to say that simple is bad, it's just not very complex.

If you take any piece by Tchaikovsky or Beethoven, and even an amateur should be able to hear a multitude of emotions and themes being explored. With modern music, you're pretty much stuck with one idea being sung in different lyrics each time.

Again, it's not for everyone. Sometimes I just want to sing some pop or rock music on a bus ride with my friends. But sometimes, I want to sit down and think about music. That's really what classical music is: thinking music.

The closest thing that comes to mind in video game music is probably One Winged Angel. The Final Fantasy series definitely has a bunch of really interesting orchestral pieces.

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

As many people have already said, Uematsu-san is probably one of the best to listen to here, especially the orchestrated versions. In fact, if you YouTube "distant worlds", you'll be able to see / listen to the live concert footage with a philharmonic orchestra, and in a word it's amazing.

As an aside, what's also very interesting is to go to ocremix.org, and check out what other musicians have done with the scores from various games. A lot of them have been turned into full scale orchestral numbers, from a huge range of games (though for me the FF series is still king, musically). In particular, check out a fellow called Jeremy Robson. His remixes are absolutely to die for.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

Snip

First of all, I would like to apologize. When I first quickly read over the response that I quoted, I believe I misinterpreted your view on the matter (and also didn't look up the articles, mostly because I was supposed to be studying) and quickly wrote you off as similar to MY music history professors, which does you a great disservice after reading your response here.

I'm currently a music education student and it's always great to hear the older generation of educators talk about the value of current music and ways to incorporate it into the classroom. One of my professors, whose area of expertise is middle school general music, pushes for the use of more popular music to teach about music through music the kids already like, while sparsely using music written by "the dead white guys."

So kudos to you and I'm glad to see that someone studied music extensively has weighed in on this issue and is pushing students to be more open minded. It's a good thing!

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

Total Annihilation has an amazing big band sound.

 

[Cowabungaa]

She's a cellist? Then Arcanum is her game:
That'll shut her elitist mouth. Hell, this entire thread will. People with attitudes like that piss me off so much.

 

[captaincabbage]

Shadow of the Colossus

THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

Not only some of the best classical music ever written for a game, but one of the best games ever made. So you'll have an awesome time showing her all of the epic, epic music, whilst you get to play an epic, epic game.