What's so great about Elder Scrolls?

[Hal10k]

But you don't need the GECK to make magic science to make it work. You need smart people to make the stuff work on a larger scale. Like I said, the purifier ceased being a science issue once they admitted the tech has been workable on a small scale and then turned into an engineering one.

To use an imperfect analogy, that's a bit like saying I should be able to start my own Apollo program because I know how a bottle rocket works. Or that a computer technician from the 60's would have no trouble building a Dell laptop. Yes, the scientific theory was there, and given enough time, they probably could have scaled it up into a Potomac-sized purifier. That was the original goal of the project, before the start of the game. However, actually developing a more efficient purifier was obviously a rather difficult problem. Why would they keep trying to develop the technology on their own when they could figure it all out from the GECK in a small percentage of the time? It wasn't a "fix everything" box, it was a "fix everything faster" box.

Wait, what? When did the Enclave sabotage the purifier? Why would they do that? They wanted to turn it on!

When you reach the rotunda, Dr. Li contacts you over the intercom and tells you that the Enclave sabatoged the purifier after realizing that Liberty Prime was casually strolling up to the Memorial (Don't ask me how she knows. Sensors or something, I guess). That's the reason you have to turn on the purifier: the water pressure has been building u as a result of their sabatoge, and it's going to wreck everything unless you relieve the pressure, activating the purifier being the only immediate solution. The Enclave hadn't captured it expecting to destroy it, it was just one last "Screw you, Brotherhood" gesture.

I like to imagine a group of Enclave scientists sprinting to the emergency exits, while one guy justs stays in the room and starts whacking stuff with a wrench.

Colonel Autumn wanted to use it to help attract people to the Enclave and...frankly? I say let 'em. Aside from being a bit forceful, the Enclave weren't really all that evil in Fallout 3. Eden was an exception, but Colonel Autumn basically staged a coup leaving him as leader and...well, while a bit of an ass?

He wasn't really 'evil' as far as his actions go. That you never got to choose to join up with the Enclave is a pretty major flaw as well. You're forced to fight them for no real reason other than that Bethesda seemed insistent that you side with the Brotherhood.

You can't side with the Enclave because, by the time you meet them, they've killed your father. Whether or not that matters to your character is irrelevant. Autumn isn't stupid: he isn't the type to say "Hey, I just killed your father, so I'm positive you won't betray me. How's it going, new best friend?" Even if you expressed interest, Autumn probably wouldn't accept you. He'd constantly be expecting to be stabbed in the back for revenge otherwise.

Yes. The 'magic' anti-radiation stuff they have which you never get access to despite entering the Enclave's main base and ransacking the place, and then their backup base at Adams Air Force Base. Nothing like a Magic McGuffin to help avoid plotholes whenever they come up.

You also don't get access to Eden's horde of eyebots, or a pet mind-controlled deathclaw, or your own power armor factory. The Enclave has a lot of tech, much of which isn't easily transportable, or understandable to a person who isn't completely familiar with their technology, especially in the brief period that you're given access to it. I wouldn't expect to learn how to build a car by charging through a Mercedez-Benz factory shooting a shotgun into the air. You don't see the entirety of either establishment, either, just the small segments necessary to gameplay. The magic Rad-X storage could easily be in one of the closed-off rooms.

also, it's not like it isn't at least foreshadowed. You can see Autumn inject himself with some as James floods the purifier with radiation.

 

[Amnestic]

You can't side with the Enclave because, by the time you meet them, they've killed your father. Whether or not that matters to your character is irrelevant. Autumn isn't stupid: he isn't the type to say "Hey, I just killed your father, so I'm positive you won't betray me. How's it going, new best friend?" Even if you expressed interest, Autumn probably wouldn't accept you. He'd constantly be expecting to be stabbed in the back for revenge otherwise.

That's a load of old tosh. Your dad killed himself. The Enclave didn't shoot him. Liam Neeson exploded the purifier, choosing to set back the project in favour of not letting someone else finish his job. He could've given it up, walked away and regrouped with the Brotherhood later. Instead, your Dad blew himself up. The Enclave didn't do shit to him.

You also don't get access to Eden's horde of eyebots, or a pet mind-controlled deathclaw, or your own power armor factory. The Enclave has a lot of tech, much of which isn't easily transportable, or understandable to a person who isn't completely familiar with their technology, especially in the brief period that you're given access to it. I wouldn't expect to learn how to build a car by charging through a Mercedez-Benz factory shooting a shotgun into the air. You don't see the entirety of either establishment, either, just the small segments necessary to gameplay. The magic Rad-X storage could easily be in one of the closed-off rooms.

also, it's not like it isn't at least foreshadowed. You can see Autumn inject himself with some as James floods the purifier with radiation.

So...wait, is the magic Rad-X too complex/bulky to use or is it as simple as jabbing a small syringe into your leg? Why do none of the Enclave - including Colonel Autumn - have any of it on them at all? You'd think Autumn would want to make sure he always has some on him after it saved his life.

It's a magic mcguffin to try to dodge around plotholes which only creates other plotholes as to why you never get access to it despite coming across literally hundreds of Enclave troops, exploring vast areas of their bases (plural) including science labs, living quarters, armoury areas...

It wasn't a "fix everything" box, it was a "fix everything faster" box.

So rather than use the GECK on something else and spreading the wealth, they choose to make their own jobs easier. They're not bad scientists, they're just lazy and immoral. That's sooooo much better.

 

[Dimitriov]

It's not even that great of an RPG, it's horrendously broken, ugly (And I don't just mean "outdated graphics", it's ugly), boring characters, story, and writing. However, it is pretty fun and huge. If you've played Fallout 3 and/or Fallout: New Vegas, you'll have fun, if you've played an RPG for BioWare or any other developer with really good writing, you'll be bored to tears with the story and characters.

Graphics never meant much to me, as long as I can tell what I'm killing and that I'm succeeding, I don't really care what the game looks like. Although the last time I said that, guy told me there was something called Doom that was right up my alley... I've never played Fallout 3 or New Vegas, though they are also on my list of "shit I need to play eventually", however I have played both Mass Effects many times through, but never got into any other BioWare games. Sorry, Dragon Age does NOT look interesting to me in the least, maybe I'm just crazy...

If you don't like the trailers. then you may not like the games. It seems to me by the wording of your post that fantasy RPGs aren't your thing.

You do have a point, Middle Ages era games were never my cup of tea, although I do like the Sci-Fi/cyber-punk style ones much better, ie. Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Halo. But I've been trying to branch out a lot more, exploring genres I never got into. For instance I've never been one for horror games, but I got Amnesia the other day simply because I heard it was really good. I still want to play Silent Hill at some point, where exactly can I get that now anyways? I also generally don't like Real-Time Strategy games, but damn do I love StarCraft, though that one isn't very recent... Let's put it this way, I'm not really into the fantasy RPG's like you said, but I'm trying to give it a try, and I figured the "best" one should at least come off as "decent" to someone who doesn't like the genre.

Aha! I get to pull out my old "cheese argument" from way back when on the WoW forums!

If someone doesn't really like cheese, they find even cheddar a bit too sharp, then says well I might as well try the "best" cheese because at least it should be decent, so they go and get some really expensive blue cheese, for example, do you think they will enjoy it?

Sadly the best game of a genre you don't care for probably isn't going to be decent in your opinion, in fact you might enjoy some of the worst examples more. The very things about it you may hate are exactly why some people will love it.

Basically, I love the ElderScrolls games for the world they create. There is so much history, back story, and such a large world for you to explore that you can spend days (real world days) just wandering around learning about the world you are playing in. For me that is fantastically fun. For you? I get the impression it wouldn't be.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

OP, here is an honest (not paid off) review of Oblivion, from a true rpg enthusiast. http://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

Why is he a "true RPG enthusiast"? Because he wrote a biased, rambling, attack review of a game he didn't like and is apparently blind to the merits of?

Maybe I should write a review tearing apart Bioshock. I'll call it "honest", and represent myself as a "true shooter enthusiast".

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Morrowind is better than Oblivion, but the Elder Scrolls series is unique in that they offer a sandbox world of adventure in which the story simply happens to take place. The player can play their choice of character, do quests they want in the order they want, fight how they like, be good or evil, explore and adventure, craft/enchant what you like and so on.

Play Morrowind, seriously. After you get off the boat, make some decisions and consider what to do next, remember what your motivation is. 10 hours later, consider your motivation again. I can guarantee the two will be entirely different.

That's why Skyrim is so anticipated. It will be a current gen (well, 5-6 year old at least) version of its predecessors. Player choice, freedom, exploration, adventure, playing on the player's terms, NOT the developer's...that's the ES series. Plus, Behtesda have always released the SDK shortly after release so players can add-to and create their own content, adding new mechanics, adventures, items and characters, tweaking and refining the experience.

If you installed FO3 today and went to FONexus, you could craft almost any game you chose by selectively downloading various mods. If you like RPGs and haven't experiences Elder Scrolls 3 or 4, you're missing out. Oh, and play Baldur's Gate II while you're at it. It's probably the best PC RPG ever made, alongside Planescape: Torment.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You mad cause he actually told the truth about it? LOL

And go ahead and write a review on Bioshock, i'll read it.

I'm mad because I correctly identified a stupid, biased review as stupid?

If I called a duck a duck, would I also be "mad"?

Here, let me help you out:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/biased

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective

http://www.lc.unsw.edu.au/onlib/critrev.html

Good luck on educating yourself!

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Oh and one last thing, if you play Oblivion, get started on the Assassin's Guild quest chain. As well as being quite disturbing, particularly your guild brethren who are simply incredible (the dictionary definition, ie. impossible to give credit to), the quests and one in particular are like nothing you'll have played before.

Enter conversations with the assassin cute girl for some serious mind-messing, and speak to the orc to learn about his time at a child's 7th birthday party.

But best of all, there's a quest at a mansion (Cheydinhall I believe) where you are locked in with 6 other guests. What ensues is a murder-mystery like you won't believe. It's one of the best, most enjoyable and memorable quests of any RPG I've ever played.

Oh oh oh, and you must do Sheogorath's Daedric shrine quest. (To other's who've played Oblivion, is it the one I'm thinking of?).

 

[Hal10k]

That's a load of old tosh. Your dad killed himself. The Enclave didn't shoot him. Liam Neeson exploded the purifier, choosing to set back the project in favour of not letting someone else finish his job. He could've given it up, walked away and regrouped with the Brotherhood later. Instead, your Dad blew himself up. The Enclave didn't do shit to him.

James committed suicide so that the faction he disliked wouldn't gain access to the purifier. They may not have killed him, but they were responsible for his death. Hence, Autumn probably wouldn't consider it a terribly good idea to let his son into their ranks, especially since, when you get right down to it, the only thing you are is some kid from the wastes. The Enclave has a standing army and its own trained scientists. They've never needed to recruit, and I don't see why they'd make an exception for somebody who was even more likely to betray them.

So...wait, is the magic Rad-X too complex/bulky to use or is it as simple as jabbing a small syringe into your leg? Why do none of the Enclave - including Colonel Autumn - have any of it on them at all? You'd think Autumn would want to make sure he always has some on him after it saved his life.

It's as simple as sticking a syringe in your leg. The technology required to produce it is the complex part. You're running through a series of claustrophobic halways containing technology you're only barely familiar with. Even if you come across the chemical processing plant, do you honestly expect to be immediately able to recognize it, examine it, figure out how it works, and carry any necessary bits and pieces of technology out with you, all in the space of about five minutes?

It's a magic mcguffin to try to dodge around plotholes which only creates other plotholes as to why you never get access to it despite coming across literally hundreds of Enclave troops, exploring vast areas of their bases (plural) including science labs, living quarters, armoury areas...

Considering Autumn is the only one who uses it, I'd say the magic Rad-X is restricted only to important personnel for use in emergency situations (or when they specifically need to cross areas of high radiation). They likely wouldn't store it at every single locale that they visit. They would only need to keep it at Raven Rock, a large part of which you do not see (note all of the "Inaccesible" doors.

Not finding it on Autumn's corpse is indeed a small plot hole, or at least a minor case of gameplay and story segregation. I could think of a few scenarios that would result in its absence, but I'll concede the point.

So rather than use the GECK on something else and spreading the wealth, they choose to make their own jobs easier. They're not bad scientists, they're just lazy and immoral. That's sooooo much better.

They're using it to turn a river full of dangerously irradiated water into something humans could actually use to survive, something that would have taken decades of research to complete without the GECK, assuming the science team even managed to survive for that long. I wouldn't exactly call that "immoral", especially considering that at no point is it suggested that they had to destroy the GECK to incorporate its technology.

 

[Blade1130]

I figured the "best" one should at least come off as "decent" to someone who doesn't like the genre.

If someone doesn't really like cheese, they find even cheddar a bit too sharp, then says well I might as well try the "best" cheese because at least it should be decent, so they go and get some really expensive blue cheese, for example, do you think they will enjoy it?

That's an... interesting way of putting it. Although I guess I should have worded it a little better. What I should have said was, that if this game is as good as everyone says it is, then someone who doesn't like the genre should be able to see why they like it, and understand what it is the game did right or wrong. I'm not sure if that's really helping me right now, but hopefully that clarifies what I meant.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

I'll be straight up with you... I'm a huge fan of TES and Fallout games. But I don't think you would want this game or any of Beths games.

I suggest you either rent one of their games if for consoles (if you have one) like Fallout 3 or New Vegas (different developer, but built around the same concept) or watch some "Let's Play" vids on youtube (cheapest option). If you want some recommendations I can send you some links.

Skyrim is a pure High fantasy game, if you are weary of such games then it's best to stay cautious.

Skyrim will release with both obsessive/blind praise and vitriolic/unwarranted criticism. You will not get an honest objective opinion from either party. Reviews are misleading too as they suffer from the same trappings of "OH MY GOD SO MUCH TO DO" and "That texture is not real enough, stupid ass game"

Or just skip it... it's just a game and I imagine you have skipped other acclaimed series before.

 

[Chiefmon]

Or how for some reason the entire last mission of the game is the Brotherhood not wanting the Enclave to do the exact same thing they were going to do for no apparent reason other than that the Brotherhood wanted to get the credit?

Uh, actually the Enclave was trying to put a FEV strain into the water that would kill anyone who had been affected by radiation, leaving only the vault dwellers to repopulate the world.

Bzzt. No. If they wanted to put the FEV Strain in, then Eden wouldn't have needed to give it to you. Colonel Autumn was not going to add the FEV strain to the water purifier.

I do concede that I was wrong.

"The American Dream: When you finally meet Eden in person, he wants you to poison the water supply with a modified form of FEV. You can agree to do as he says or talk him into self-destructing. You are, in either case, unable to exit the room before you pick up the FEV canister."

Colonel Autumn wasn't going to insert the virus, no.

"As opposed to Eden's visions of eliminating all of the "impure" elements of the wastelands' population, Colonel Autumn's main objective seems to be increasing the Enclave's power over the remains of the nation once governed by elected representatives, as he intends to use the water purified by the Purifier as a means to make the people of the Capital Wasteland "flock to the Enclave" for leadership rather than killing them."

The Brotherhood was going to give water to everyone as opposed to the Enclave only giving it to those that followed it.

Sources cited- http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/

 

[Savagezion]

I figured the "best" one should at least come off as "decent" to someone who doesn't like the genre.

If someone doesn't really like cheese, they find even cheddar a bit too sharp, then says well I might as well try the "best" cheese because at least it should be decent, so they go and get some really expensive blue cheese, for example, do you think they will enjoy it?

That's an... interesting way of putting it. Although I guess I should have worded it a little better. What I should have said was, that if this game is as good as everyone says it is, then someone who doesn't like the genre should be able to see why they like it, and understand what it is the game did right or wrong. I'm not sure if that's really helping me right now, but hopefully that clarifies what I meant.

You should definitely check out Fallout and not Oblivion if you want to see why it is popular and I suggest New Vegas. I personally don't care for any Bethesda titles really. I think Morrowind is better than Oblivion and New Vegas is better than Fallout 3 for what it is worth. But all that stuff people talk about 200 hours, that ain't me. I have MAYBE 40 hours on New Vegas, 30 on FO3, 20 on Oblivion, and maybe 40 on Morrowind.

If you want to really see where the potential in these titles is at, check those games out. (But not Oblivion, it is broken and will probably piss you off.) All of the other games are "OK". I think your best bet on seeing what all the fuss is about is to check out New Vegas. However, if you want to know the difference between Fallout 3 and New Vegas:

Which do you think sounds more appealing? A Grand Theft Auto sandbox style RPG (Fallout 3) or Mass Effect story driven RPG (New Vegas)? I would make your decision off of just that. I don't care for the Bethesda RPGs but I see why it appeals to people. It lets them scratch their exploration/sandbox itch in an RPG fashion. That is pretty much all Oblivion and FO3 are good for mostly. Morrowind and New Vegas offer story but it is complemented by bugs and crappy mechanics on both accounts. (As all Bethesda games suffer from that)

 

[Savagezion]

OP, here is an honest (not paid off) review of Oblivion, from a true rpg enthusiast. http://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

Awesome review. That is exactly why I can't get excited for Skyrim. A lot of lying for purpose of hype went on with Oblivion. You can see them pulling a lot of similar stuff with Skyrim. Claiming a lot of the awesome features like "Radiant AI" are in Skyrim which wasn't in Oblivion as advertised.

 

[Freaky Lou]

OP, here is an honest (not paid off) review of Oblivion, from a true rpg enthusiast. http://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

That's a really solid review. Everything in there is completely true---though none of it changes the fact that Oblivion's one of my favourite games ever.

 

[Freaky Lou]

OP, here is an honest (not paid off) review of Oblivion, from a true rpg enthusiast. http://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

Why is he a "true RPG enthusiast"? Because he wrote a biased, rambling, attack review of a game he didn't like and is apparently blind to the merits of?

Maybe I should write a review tearing apart Bioshock. I'll call it "honest", and represent myself as a "true shooter enthusiast".

All reviews are inherently subjective opinions. There's not an unbiased one that's ever been written; the job of a reviewer is to clearly convey his or her experience in a way that lets you know if you'd like it or not, highlighting positives and negatives a less discerning eye may not have noticed. A reviewer's job is NOT to be objective.