What's so "Progressive" About Progressive Metal?

[Not Good]

I honestly don't get it. The two songs that I sampled from YouTube were Dream Theater's "Forsaken" and Opeth's "Porcelian Heart". Both to me, by name and by the song itself, sound like so many love songs from so many bands. Well I'm not entirely sure about the theme but both had a very ,shall we say, angsty feel to it.

Therefore I pondered why it's called "progressive" metal. I see nothing forward thinking about it with the exception that form chaos (By chaos I mean the 80s thrash and death metal) comes order (soppy love songs that Shouldn't be in Metal). The last real progression in Metal in the last decade is really a step backward in quality and a step into the pop music frame of mind. Additionally, The only real progressive band of the last decade was Death (in My opinion). If any of you have heard Sound of Perserverance you would know what I mean.

What's even more hilarious is that when I voice my disapproval of the band, I get the typical fanboy ignorance and generalizations about my own personality. So either the fanbase of DT and Opeth is bad or they are. Usually I find that both are true (Linkin Park, MCR etc.)

Figured this part out. "It's metal with an inflated ego."

Also, don't tell me that my samplings were incorrect. I chose the first video that came up on YouTube and since I assume that the most popular one is the best sounding one, I chose it. Besides, what's band if it doesn't play its newer songs? A band in Reunion, a band that's past its prime, or not the original band at all. Think the Rolling Stones.

So if any of you can find me a Progressive metal band that doesn't sound like a bunch of pussies that bought distortion pedals, and their most recent released songs don't fail at being progressive and do succeed at getting them monies, notify me.

And if any fanbois (Not even the Escapist is safe from internet disease) read this: I listen to Death, Autopsy, Early Metallica, Slayer, Darkthrone, Mayhem, Venom, Megadeth, Behemoth, Guns 'n Roses, and Possessed. Just to name a few.

 

[TerraMGP]

Try checking out some Blind guardian or Nightwish. Its because they often move away from the norms, try new things. "Nightfall in middle earth" for example, A Metal Opera about the Silmarillion using a full orchestral set. Iron maiden playing parts of brighter than a thousand suns in 7/4 tempo (I don't think all of it was so I'm saying part) Nightwish blending Operatic with the traditional 'rough' singing of many metal bands. Its all a matter of trying new things, being progressive.

I can't vouch for anything you have heard before, I have not listened to them. I will say that real progressive metal though is still a matter of trying new things and moving forward, of adding new things to Metal.

 

[Maet]

Their metal is progressive in terms of song structure and instrumental virtuosity (although the latter is incredibly debatable). I can't speak for Opeth, but that's why people hold Dream Theater in high esteem.

When someone asks me what makes Dream Theater progressive metal, I point to The Dance of Eternity [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w3A1KOPZc]. Just try keeping time to that beast.

Progressive Metal is all about song structure and musicianship, not lyrics and brooding.

 

[Alex_P]

"Progressive metal" = "metal" + "progressive rock"

Features of progressive rock:
- Broader range of instruments, including both old-school stuff like violins and saxophones and experimentation with new stuff (well, new in the 1970s) like synthesizers.
- More variable tempo; lots of other musical characteristics that I don't really understand too well.
- A generally "artistic" or "poetic" feel. Songs often don't have looping lyrics. The packaging of an album or the theatrical elements of a live performance are tailored to emphasize the themes in the songs. Concept albums.

Pink Floyd is probably the best example of the prog-rock genre. I don't think I've ever heard "progressive metal".

-- Alex

 

[Not Good]

Their metal is progressive in terms of song structure and instrumental virtuosity (although the latter is incredibly debatable). I can't speak for Opeth, but that's why people hold Dream Theater in high esteem.

When someone asks me what makes Dream Theater progressive metal, I point to The Dance of Eternity [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w3A1KOPZc]. Just try keeping time to that beast.

Progressive Metal is all about song structure and musicianship, not lyrics and brooding.

The song has small tempo changes in-between 4/4 timing which could be written off as either pretty cool or the band can't keep tempo.

 

[Not Good]

"Progressive metal" = "metal" + "progressive rock"

Features of progressive rock:
- Broader range of instruments, including both old-school stuff like violins and saxophones and experimentation with new stuff (well, new in the 1970s) like synthesizers.
- More variable tempo; lots of other musical characteristics that I don't really understand too well.
- A generally "artistic" or "poetic" feel. Songs often don't have looping lyrics. The packaging of an album or the theatrical elements of a live performance are tailored to emphasize the themes in the songs. Concept albums.

Pink Floyd is probably the best example of the prog-rock genre. I don't think I've ever heard "progressive metal".

-- Alex

To me it's more the latter than the former. What's so good about Pink Floyd is that the lyrics and the music both say something together. It's not a huge tug and pull between the two that I feel with Prog Metal.

 

[Maet]

The song has small tempo changes in-between 4/4 timing which could be written off as either pretty cool or the band can't keep tempo.

Or you could just admit that 7/8 - 6/8 - 7/8 - 4/4 - 7/8 - 6/8 - 7/8 - 13/16 - 15/16 - 17/16 - 14/16 is thematically very clever and therein lies the essence of the genre.

You're not offending me by not liking it (frankly, I've grown out of Dream Theater), but you did ask what progressive metal is all about, and The Dance of Eternity about sums it up.

 

[Not Good]

When you put it in the actuality, it seems too busy. Not even Bethoven has this many tempo changes. and it's hard to tell one tempo from another just on one listen through anyway as most sound the same and you could additionally argue that you can put in more notes per meausre to compensate. So really all it comes down to is how many notes you can put in a measure. Everything seems in common time in Metal anyway becuase there's no distinguishable accent on the beats. So basing a song off of time changes is a bit shallow.

6/8 = 3/4
14/16 = 7/8

 

[Not Good]

The song has small tempo changes in-between 4/4 timing which could be written off as either pretty cool or the band can't keep tempo.

Or you could just admit that 7/8 - 6/8 - 7/8 - 4/4 - 7/8 - 6/8 - 7/8 - 13/16 - 15/16 - 17/16 - 14/16 is thematically very clever and therein lies the essence of the genre.

You're not offending me by not liking it (frankly, I've grown out of Dream Theater), but you did ask what progressive metal is all about, and The Dance of Eternity about sums it up.

Hey; Pay attention.

 

[Maet]

6/8 does not necessarily equal 3/4:

6/8 - 1 2 3 1 2 3 || 1 2 3 1 2 3 || (triplet feel)
3/4 - 1 2 3 || 1 2 3 || 1 2 3|| 1 2 3 || (waltz feel)

But in arguing that it's shallow, you acknowledge the main appeal of the genre; cramming notes into measures and feeling smug about it.

 

[Not Good]

6/8 does not necessarily equal 3/4:

6/8 - 1 2 3 1 2 3 || 1 2 3 1 2 3 || (triplet feel)
3/4 - 1 2 3 || 1 2 3 || 1 2 3|| 1 2 3 || (waltz feel)

But in arguing that it's shallow, you acknowledge the main appeal of the genre; cramming notes into measures and feeling smug about it.

So your just saying that the main appeal of the genre is acting like a smartass because your type of metal is more technical and innovative and sophisticated. Am I getting what your saying?

 

[Maet]

So your just saying that the main appeal of the genre is acting like a smartass because your type of metal is more technical and innovative and sophisticated. Am I getting what your saying?

Yes. In pure unadulterated layman's words, that's exactly what I'm saying: Progressive Metal is normal Metal with an inflated ego.

 

[Not Good]

So your just saying that the main appeal of the genre is acting like a smartass because your type of metal is more technical and innovative and sophisticated. Am I getting what your saying?

Yes. In pure unadulterated layman's words, that's exactly what I'm saying: Progressive Metal is normal Metal with an inflated ego.

Well that definatly justifies the Fanboy perspective of my arguement.

 

[Maet]

Well that definatly justifies the Fanboy perspective of my arguement.

It's just too bad that you can't use it as a flame shield.

 

[gsf1200]

Listen to Bigelf.

 

[Not Good]

Well that definatly justifies the Fanboy perspective of my arguement.

It's just too bad that you can't use it as a flame shield.

They're fanboys, they already fail.

 

[TerraMGP]

So your just saying that the main appeal of the genre is acting like a smartass because your type of metal is more technical and innovative and sophisticated. Am I getting what your saying?

Yes. In pure unadulterated layman's words, that's exactly what I'm saying: Progressive Metal is normal Metal with an inflated ego.

Well that definatly justifies the Fanboy perspective of my arguement.

I think the bottom line is you just don't want to like Progressive metal. Thats fine, you don't have to. Its not fanboyish or fangirlish to understand WHAT makes it progressive though.

you asked. The fact that you don't see the value in it has nothing to do with the answer. I really don't know what you expected when you asked this question other than perhaps getting some basic answers to your seemingly legitimate question so you can flame the answers.

And you know what? your entitled to your opinion like everyone else, but from the standpoint of moving forward and attempting new things, from an objective standpoint it is 'progressive'. You may not personally enjoy that direction but then I can tell you there are only two bands on your list that I don't want to beat in the head for hurting my ears, especially Megadath.

Now how about some of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snwvpJ7DxyY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQVRqWgUOAs

If your going to talk about a topic at least do more than listen to two songs and say that because you don't like those two songs its stuck up.

 

[Techne]

Prog-metal's a fairly broad genre (& as an aside in my opinion Porcelain Heart is nowhere near the best, or most typical, of Opeth songs - try something off Ghost Reveries). Try listening to Isis, also prog/post-metal but quite dissimilar.

Most prog also doesn't stand as well as a single vs. a full album.

 

[Not Good]

Prog-metal's a fairly broad genre (& as an aside in my opinion Porcelain Heart is nowhere near the best, or most typical, of Opeth songs - try something off Ghost Reveries). Try listening to Isis, also prog/post-metal but quite dissimilar.

Most prog also doesn't stand as well as a single vs. a full album.

That can be said of Prog Rock as well. We have mentioned Pink Floyd in here,and they are known to make concept albums. please elaborate your point.

Also, Metal is a huge genre with a distribuition of good and bad genres as many seem fit. No one subgenre is so diversified that it is a whole other genre in itself.

 

[Not Good]

Snip

If your going to talk about a topic at least do more than listen to two songs and say that because you don't like those two songs its stuck up.

I have listened to more than two songs from DT. I still didn't enjoy what I heard.

Also, what's the other band that doesn't make you want to rip your ears out? Or are you counter-overgeneralizing my overgeneralizations, as Darkthrone and Dissection are very intricate at times.

And if you must know why I asked this question it was that all I was getting was fanboi responses on Youtube. So I turned to the less fanboish Escapists here. Okay? Happy?